MavsBoard

(06-18-2021, 08:34 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]You've SEEN him being a douche? Well, that would change my opinion for sure. Please elaborate on the personal, first-hand experience that has led you to this conclusion.

I have lived in the metroplex for the entirety of his Mavs tenure, and I think he's a class act. But, I might have missed something. My mind is open.

Cato was careful in his description of the issue, calling Rick "exhausting" to deal with. 

That doesn't necessarily mean he was a "douche."

(06-18-2021, 08:34 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]You've SEEN him being a douche? Well, that would change my opinion for sure. Please elaborate on the personal, first-hand experience that has led you to this conclusion.

I have lived in the metroplex for the entirety of his Mavs tenure, and I think he's a class act. But, I might have missed something. My mind is open.

No, I've HEARD him interviewed countless times and he's a bully and a douche every time.   He's a douche everytime he went on Norm Hitzges show, who is about as big of a teddybear softball interviewer as you'll find.  Not only is he a douche, he goes out of his way to be a douche because he relishes being a douche to people.     This isn't some sort of "open secret" because it's all out in the open.

(06-18-2021, 08:40 PM)HanspardShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]No, I've HEARD him interviewed countless times and he's a bully and a douche every time.   Not only is he a douche, he goes out of his way to be a douche because he relishes being a douche to people.     This isn't some sort of "open secret" because it's all out in the open.

The first link leads to nothing remotely regarding Carlisle, as far as I can tell.

The second leads to a badly written article that seems to be centered around an interview with Chuck Cooperstein, who offered a sincere twitter thread about how sad he was to see the great coach go. That can be found here:

https://twitter.com/coopmavs/status/1405...76929?s=20

I have noticed many terse interactions between Carlisle and reporters, but in most cases I have actually known the reporters in question, and in most cases I know first-hand that THEY are tiresome, and very likely deserved it, at least a little. I have never once thought Carlisle was a douche. Now, opinions vary and you're entitled to yours, but the way you presented it as factual I thought maybe you knew something I didn't.

I am with @"HanspardShowerVoice" that RC has always come across as an "arrogant dick" to me in interviews....BUT I never made much of it. I think the more important thing is how co-workers and players think of him. I made more of the players he ran into conflict with. But even there it was hard to assign "blame." But obviously now we are learning there are many who do not care for him and do not like working with him or playing for him. It is actually much worse than I anticipated...but it is not surprising in the least.

(06-18-2021, 08:53 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I am with @"HanspardShowerVoice" that RC has always come across as an "arrogant dick" to me in interviews....BUT I never made much of it. I think the more important thing is how co-workers and players think of him. I made more of the players he ran into conflict with. But even there it was hard to assign "blame." But obviously now we are learning there are many who do not care for him and do not like working with him or playing for him. It is actually much worse than I anticipated...but it is not surprising in the least.

And all of that is fine. Different types of people forming different opinions based on interviews is fine. I ENJOY when unremarkable people are put in their place for asking dumb questions. I LIKE people who do that. Bill Parcells was my favorite Cowboys coach, so far, and Gregg Popovich is more like that than Parcells and Carlisle put together. 

To each their own, only...you guys won! It's over. The coach who is easily in the top 5 of good things to ever happen to the Mavericks organization is gone, and he's never coming back. Is it really necessary to continue to pile on the guy now? This is a great man we're talking about, not some scrub.

(06-18-2021, 09:00 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]And all of that is fine. Different types of people forming different opinions based on interviews is fine. I ENJOY when unremarkable people are put in their place for asking dumb questions. I LIKE people who do that. Bill Parcells was my favorite Cowboys coach, so far, and Gregg Popovich is more like that than Parcells or Carlisle put together. 

To each their own, only you guys won! It's over. The coach who is easily in the top 5 of good things to ever happen to the Mavericks organization is gone, and he's never coming back. Is it really necessary to continue to pile on the guy now? This is a great man we're talking about, not some scrub.

Can he be a great coach without being a great man?

(06-18-2021, 09:00 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]And all of that is fine. Different types of people forming different opinions based on interviews is fine. I ENJOY when unremarkable people are put in their place for asking dumb questions. I LIKE people who do that. Bill Parcells was my favorite Cowboys coach, so far, and Gregg Popovich is more like that than Parcells or Carlisle put together. 

To each their own, only you guys won! It's over. The coach who is easily in the top 5 of good things to ever happen to the Mavericks organization is gone, and he's never coming back. Is it really necessary to continue to pile on the guy now? This is a great man we're talking about, not some scrub.

And it´s not like most guys aren´t supporting or at least thanking RC. Former players like Jefferson, Marion or Chandler. Local media guys like Townsend or Wade. Not to mention that he is one of the most respected coaches around the league and the president of the coaches association.
And a quick reminder. RC wasn´t fired. He left. As far as we know Cuban wanted to keep him for at least one more try with Luka.

(06-18-2021, 09:02 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Can he be a great coach without being a great man?

Sure, but that's not what I believe about Carlisle. 

I'm not even trying to tell people what to think, but my God, can we not turn the best coach the team has ever had (top 2-3 for the city in any sport, even) into one of our famously oversimplified, binary, logic blocks? 

People in the organization are saying what they're saying right now because he's gone. What would they say about Cuban two days after he sold the team? What will they say about Luka a month after he leaves to play in LA 4-5 years down the road? Loads of people who work with EVERY SINGLE PERSON reading this have plenty of bad things to say behind their backs, I can promise you that. 

Everyone has flaws, but Carlisle was GREAT for the Dallas Mavericks.

(06-18-2021, 05:41 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]*SMALL SAMPLE SIZE ALERT*

In the playoffs (336 mins) KP was +18.7 on O and -8.8 on D....overall +9.9 on/off. 

That is positive......BUT he spent 191 of his 233 mins on court with Luka (+35.3) and DFS (+42.7) who had video game numbers. So the reality is this:




GOOD NEWS: KP with Luka and DFS was part of a lineup that would have soundly beat the Clippers.

BAD NEWS: KP without those guys was part of some of the worst playoff basketball of the year.


So to the point: I think KP in that "non-star" role CAN be a plus....but if you take him away from the heavy lifters he will not fill in to carry a team. 


NOTE: With a new coach this could ALL change potentially.

DAMN GOOD post. Those are good #s. 
Dlord has been saying it very well. Mavs got to get a #2 to go with Luka. KP isn't the answer with the player he is now. Every move should be in pursuit of that. If that means Kp is gone? so be it. 

I don't think anyone would be upset with KP here as a #3 if his defense got remotely back to last year's level. I think we'd be ECSTATIC about KP as our 3. I know I would. I honestly don't care how much Mavs are paying him at that point.

(06-18-2021, 09:00 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]The coach who is easily in the top 5 of good things to ever happen to the Mavericks organization is gone, and he's never coming back. Is it really necessary to continue to pile on the guy now?

So right now I am not taking the time to reflect on his legacy or any of that, as a fan I am more interested in currently processing through: "How does this affect the organization and team and Luka moving forward?" 

Right NOW I am coming to some pretty positive conclusions, thinking that this is a REALLY good turn of events right now. 

Once the dust settles on the new hires, I think it will be more of the time for me (and many of us) to look back on his legacy with fondness and appreciation. But right now we are in the midst of incredible and unexpected upheaval.

(06-18-2021, 07:47 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]A legit option.

BUT....from my seat I saw enough lateral quickness when he was engaged to think it was in his head and not in his knees. That might be totally accurate by me, but that is what I saw. There were times even in the first 10 games back where I saw him moving his feet like old....I saw it in the LAC series a few times too. But mostly I saw a guy who was depressed and unhappy and therefore unable to motivate himself.

To 15th's post... There is no question his quickness was sapped for a big portion of the regular season. It definitely got better in the 2nd half. 

But to your points, I suggested similar. That if he's not engaged, he gives zero effort. I think I said in discord he needs to grow the eff up and stop pouting lol. He's a diva. 

I did notice a few times to start the game in the Clippers series that he was really engaged on the defensive end to start. They also made it a point to try and get him involved early. As he got less and less play, he did less and less. 

A new coach and different roster dynamics might have him happy and buying in again. Hopefully this humbled him and he works on his game a bunch this summer like he suggested.

(06-18-2021, 09:34 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Right NOW I am coming to some pretty positive conclusions, thinking that this is a REALLY good turn of events right now. 

I have no issues with that. You are welcome to feel anything you feel, and I want to read about it. 

I just know all the stupid Carlisle takes I've been reading here for 10 years are about to get accepted as gospel (that's just how this place operates, sadly), and it offends me. He literally didn't even get fired. He is a great man who completely saved a situation that Cuban had allowed Avery Johnson to destroy and helped Dirk realize his dream of delivering us a championship. 

Being excited about something new is one thing (once I finish all the steps of grieving, I might even get there, too) but going out of our way to run him down is another. At least for me.

(06-18-2021, 09:38 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]There is no question his quickness was sapped for a big portion of the regular season. It definitely got better in the 2nd half. 

I don't claim this as fact, because I could be way wrong, but to my eye the nights during which he seemed to move better didn't happen more towards the end of the season, or more towards the beginning. They were kind of random, imo, except I think a lot of them happened after getting a little bit extra rest, which was rare this past season. 

There was one week and a half stretch where I almost convinced myself he was rounding back into some type of form, and I THINK I remember that it was right after that crazy, random weather situation shut down the AAC and gave them several days of unexpected rest and practice. I might be confused on that though.

(06-18-2021, 09:39 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]going out of our way to run him down is another

I hope you don't hear that from me. I am only highlighting the negatives and his recent performance to suggest that there MIGHT be lots of room for improvement moving forward. 

If he is LEGIT a top 5 NBA coach across the board right now, then this sucks big time.....but if he has not been performing at peak value because of context, situation, personalities, age, fatigue, etc., then it gives us hope as fans that the next guy could help us take the next steps.   

I happen to think it is the latter.....but TIME WILL TELL.

(06-18-2021, 09:43 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]They were kind of random, imo

100% my memory as well. Which is why I think it was connected to head space more than anything.

Rick is a genius on the sideline. Unfortunately that's only a part of the head coaching job. It's become clear now he's really struggled for a while now on the other aspects.

Lots of great coaches even all time great ones were like that. Larry brown comes to mind. 

Perhaps the problem here and why he's butted heads with everyone is again back on Cuban. Does Rick pull the crap he did with guys or do some of the rotations if there was any accountability around here? Carlisle could do whatever he wanted for a long time because of 2011. 

A President of basketball opps that actually ran the organization would hold Carlisle accountable and make it clear he wanted guys to be playing. But whatever Rick wanted happened and there was no pushback from anywhere

But what I can see/read from the last few days there has been a culture of complete lack of accountability for a LOOOOOOONG time now. Which I don't think that's a coincidence considering the business side culture was the EXACT SAME THING. 

Perhaps Cynt has been able to get Cuban to learn the concept of accountability finally. And hopefully letting people do their jobs...

(06-18-2021, 09:45 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I hope you don't hear that from me. I am only highlighting the negatives and his recent performance to suggest that there MIGHT be lots of room for improvement moving forward. 

If he is LEGIT a top 5 NBA coach across the board right now, then this sucks big time.....but if he has not been performing at peak value because of context, situation, personalities, age, fatigue, etc., then it gives us hope as fans that the next guy could help us take the next steps.   

I happen to think it is the latter.....but TIME WILL TELL.

Yeah, I'm not even talking about his coaching tonight. 

I realize that you just said you weren't around to considering "legacy" yet, which is fine. I'm already defending it. 

I have no beef with you about this or anything else. Even when I don't agree with your takes, I never find your writing thoughtless.

Also Rick can be an all time great coach and completely lose his effectiveness for various reasons. Look at Andy Reid in the NFL at the end of his Philly days. 

Rick is going to be that elite coach for another team. Hopefully we don't have to face them all the time.

(06-18-2021, 09:48 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Larry brown comes to mind. 

I think Larry Brown is a great comparison for Carlisle.

The difference there, and one that I wish more people appreciated, is that every time Brown got sideways with someone he'd take his toys and bounce. There is NO CHANCE Brown would have stuck it out here through Chandler Parsons, Harrison Barnes, Wes Mathews, Dennis Smith Jr, etc. Carlisle stayed. He didn't have to, and it probably negatively impacted the way people will view him after retirement. Now, I'm not saying that made him a saint or anything, because I'm sure he got something for his sacrifice - his daughter got to live in one place all through school, for one thing. But WE got the benefit of some truly awful rosters being made into mediocre or even mildly good teams, when most any other coach would've delivered something like the 90's Mavs.

(06-18-2021, 09:54 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think Larry Brown is a great comparison for Carlisle.

The difference there, and one that I wish more people appreciated, is that every time Brown got sideways with someone he'd take his toys and bounce. There is NO CHANCE Brown would have stuck it out here through Chandler Parsons, Harrison Barnes, Wes Mathews, Dennis Smith Jr, etc. Carlisle stayed. He didn't have to, and it probably negatively impacted the way people will view him after retirement. Now, I'm not saying that made him a saint or anything, because I'm sure he got something for his sacrifice - his daughter got to live in one place all through school, for one thing. But WE got the benefit of some truly awful rosters being made into mediocre or even mildly good teams, when most any other coach would've delivered something like the 90's Mavs.

100% agree. 

Rick is the reason Dirk got a championship and he's the reason Dirk got to enjoy the last decade of his career being competitive and winning games when they shouldn't have been. The championship and what he did for Dirk is legendary. Mark has admitted he messed everything up in the stretch after the title and Carlisle kept Dirk here so we could enjoy him a bit longer. Without Rick, Dirk probably doesn't resign the first time he did after the title. He certainly doesn't the next few times.