@"Fuerza1" you are severely overrating talent at #31. Drafting someone at #31 doesn't even guarantee they will ever make the rotation in the NBA or even have an NBA career, let alone step in and replace Delon Wright. I would for sure trade D Wright to get RoCo but I definitely think he's worth more than what you typically get at #31. Remember that Mavs wanted D Wright when he was when he was drafted. He got picked at #20 and the Mavs had to draft guess who? Justin Anderson. Yes, Long Island Nets superstar Justin Anderson. And that was 10 picks ahead of #31. Mavs did really well with Brunson and have grabbed several gems undrafted over the years but that doesn't mean they grow on treees. Delon Wright is a good NBA player that should at least be around another several years before his career winds down.
(01-30-2020, 03:15 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-30-2020, 03:05 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ] (01-30-2020, 02:36 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]As far as Iggy goes, MBT would be idiotic to throw in the GS 2nd for him. It's either Lee or Delon or no deal. That GS 2nd is like a late first rounder.
So to you the GSW 2nd rounder is worth more than Delon Wright. Gotcha. That is a pretty crazy take IMO.
Yes because you can find a rotation player of Delon's ilk at #31 on a bargain contract for many years of control. Delon is an average bench player making $9M/yr for 2 more seasons so even if you draft a bust at #31, you free yourself of $9M this summer and next for a better replacement.
Not really understanding the Delon love affair. Overall, his impact has been highly negative. His on/off court rating is at -5.8! Limited jump shooter, not a floor general, and now an iffy attitude due to his role.
Losing Delon would be addition by subtraction at this point. But he was our prize free agent so lets hype him up!!
I think it's patently obvious that this is an HSO gonzo take which doesn't have much real basis in reality which has everything to do with your rather humorous bias in favor of Brunson. You are the Balkis of Brunson, tbh. If you weren't here that long ago, Balkis was a poster who consistently posted as if JJB were the second-best player on the team other than Dirk. He didn't mean it as a schtick; he just really loved JJB that much. He was finally proved right, after looking absolutely ridiculous for years, when JJB became one of the championship team's crucial six. Fact: we don't have rings without JJB. But Brunson hasn't proven anything, so your schtick (which I understand, you don't really mean as a schtick, it's just a crazy blind favoritism - maybe Brunson is family to you) looks as crazy as Balkis's. It also reminds me of TMOGE (TMac'sOneGoodEye) who had a consistent schtick about how if the Mavs were bad, it was always the other players' fault and never Dirk's because Dirk was the chosen one, etc. etc. etc. He was generally wrong, but had a point, but what made him really funny is how he would slide it in subtly, when it was least expected. It was like the Spanish Inquisition in Monty Python. Your pro-Brunson bias is so readily apparent in the various opinions you post that it makes them (almost certainly unintentionally) comical.
Brunson might become a great player one day. Today, Wright is the far better player - better decision-making, better outside shooting, better defensive size and skill. Your take on Wright could be seen as true from a certain point of view, but overall, and especially recently, is not applicable, especially not compared to Brunson. And saying that the 31st pick could easily be as good as Wright is shock value, because that player wouldn't have the NBA experience of Wright even if he had his skill set.
Yes, it is too a ludicrous opinion to assert that the GSW pick has more value to the Mavs right now than Wright does.
(01-30-2020, 03:22 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]@"Fuerza1" you are severely overrating talent at #31. Drafting someone at #31 doesn't even guarantee they will ever make the rotation in the NBA or even have an NBA career, let alone step in and replace Delon Wright. I would for sure trade D Wright to get RoCo but I definitely think he's worth more than what you typically get at #31. Remember that Mavs wanted D Wright when he was when he was drafted. He got picked at #20 and the Mavs had to draft guess who? Justin Anderson. Yes, Long Island Nets superstar Justin Anderson. And that was 10 picks ahead of #31. Mavs did really well with Brunson and have grabbed several gems undrafted over the years but that doesn't mean they grow on treees. Delon Wright is a good NBA player that should at least be around another several years before his career winds down.
It doesn't guarantee you anything but neither does Delon Wright. He could rupture his Achilles heel tomorrow and be worthless the rest of his career too. Life is a gamble.
The Warriors could have traded their second rounder for an average player like Delon Wright or they could keep it, draft Draymond Green and form the NBA's next dynasty. That's one of the main differences between good teams and great teams: maximizing the assets given to you.
Sure, lets throw everything we got at the table for RoCo. But the needle won't move much. Instead of getting swept in the first round, we lose in 5 competitive games instead. A big reason why Mavs got in as big of a mess post-2011 is due to sacrificing long term gain for short term fixes.
MBT need to think big picture, and I believe they are.
@"Fuerza1" has some crazy takes. Sure lets just go grab the next Draymond Green. Let's draft the next Kawhi Leonard while we're at it with our first round pick. Since these HOF guys just grow on trees sure. Meanwhile let's try to avoid DSJ's, AJ Hammons, Justin Anderson's, Shane Larkins and so on. Draft HOF guys, don't draft NBA busts. It's all just so easy.
(01-30-2020, 03:15 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes because you can find a rotation player of Delon's ilk (or even better) at #31 on a bargain contract for many years of control. Delon is an average bench player making $9M/yr for 2 more seasons so even if you draft a bust at #31, you free yourself of $9M this summer and next for a better replacement via FA.
Not really understanding the Delon love affair. Overall, his impact has been highly negative. His on/off court rating is at -5.8! Limited jump shooter, not a floor general, and now an iffy attitude due to his role.
Losing Delon would be addition by subtraction at this point. But he was our prize free agent so lets hype him up!!
You
can get Jokic in the second round too, so let's trade the pick for him?
DW is an average bench player in your opinion. That opinion is (not sure if blindly) biased by his taking at least a portion of JB's perceived minutes on the court. At least that is what I've perceived when reading many of your takes.
I've said I think one of DW or JB needs to be outgoing for both of them to shine wherever they land (one of them with the Mavs, the other on a new team). Now, we can't extract all that value out of one of them because the team getting them has to perceive that as being the case, then be willing to pay for it. However, I think both their value is about at the same place. Wright, because he is currently the better player on a decent contract that decreases over time. Brunson because it's only his second year, albeit being an older entry that the writing on the wall comes a lot sooner than a typical rookie contract guy.
Since the article and recent tweet, I've been more focused on getting DW to the other team that would have need for his talent (and his talent isn't inconsiderable). I think JB would fit this team better once DW is gone (at least I really, really hope so). I don't however think that either of them should be traded at all costs, cause that isn't good asset management at all, and I believe both players to be assets to build a better team. Has little to do with loving one or the other, it has to do with the correct assessment based on the body of work.
Dammit Luka hurt his ankle angle so looks like BW and JB and the original JB (JJB) will all be getting minutes.
(01-30-2020, 02:36 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]My goodness, Robert Covington is so damn overrated. He is as inefficient as Wesley Matthews on offense, and that's with 2 healthy Achilles heels but comes with the Trevor Ariza hype at one tenth of the latter's accomplishments.
He is a little better defender than DFS but at 3 times the price? And he'll be 30 next year? His "best contract in the league" claim is also a bunch of hyperbole. You can find 3/D guys at $10M or less every summer. Hard pass.
As far as Iggy goes, MBT would be idiotic to throw in the GS 2nd for him. It's either Lee or Delon or no deal. That GS 2nd is like a late first rounder.
Lets say Mavs' 1st round pick is at #20. They can package #20 and #31 to move up in the first for a guy they really like at #15. That pick is much more valuable than 3 months of Iggy, and I say that as a guy who really wants Iggy here. If MBT give it up for a rental, they haven't learned from their past mistakes.
As far as I know Ariza never made a single all defensive team. The little bit better defender than DFS has better on/off numbers than DFS will ever have and had better +/- numbers than teammates like Embiid, Simmons or this year Towns. One year with great impact numbers might be a random aberration but no matter the team or the teammates his teams were always a lot better with him on the floor.
There is a difference between 3&D guys and defensive anchors. Draymond Green and Marcus Smart are even worse scorers but all three of them provide something that the boxscore cannot measure. They anchor the defense. Can switch everything and play incredible help defense. I don´t see a reasonable argument that DFS is even close as a defender. DFS is a great hustle player and I love his off rebounding but asking him to defend the best opposing scorer is not a longterm solution.
I was hesitant about RoCo earlier in the season because he had a slow start coming back from an injury but he is back to his former self right now. And no you cannot find guys that provide the same things that RoCo does for 10mio. They are currently under contract for 4/99 (Draymond) and 4/106 (Horford).
Not to beat this to death but here’s my trade proposal and then I’ll shut up about it.
Brunson, Lee, Jackson, Curry, and GSW 2nd for Markkanen, and Porter
Then take Satoransky into the TPE.
Doncic/Wright/JJ
Hardaway/Sat/
Porter/Finney-Smith/Bro
Markkanen/Maxi
Porzingis/Cauley-Stein/Boban
(01-30-2020, 03:35 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, lets throw everything we got at the table for RoCo.
Do you mean RoCo or Iggy? I mostly understand if you're talking Iggy, not so much RoCo. I would for sure throw more out there for RoCo, and rightfully so, his body of work, contract and age is much more beneficial to the team than Iggy.
(01-30-2020, 04:08 PM)BasketballJones41 Wrote: [ -> ]Then take Satoransky into the TPE.
After the WCS trade, Sato doesn't fit inside the TPE. You could probably switch DW for Brunson and add Sato and the deal works.
more edits: Nope, can't do that either, in order to get OPJ, Sato and Mark, I think it has to be more worth their while than just taking on OPJ's contract. Felicio would have to be included, and can be in the TPE. I'm not certain Chi would trade Mark and Sato for this, but this deal does work:
OPJ, Sato and Mark for THJ, Lee, Brunson and JJ
then
Felicio for TPE and GSW
Saves them tons of money now and in the future and starts them off on another rebuild.
We don't need THJ if we're getting Sato IMO and Curry backs up Sato pretty dang well.
You already know what you have in Delon Wright. Average bench play and $18M the next 2 summers. Players like him literally grow on trees in free agency every year.
The #31 pick could be a winning lottery ticket or it could be Satnam Singh in drag.
Who knows but I for one prefer to go for the home run despite the odds. Either way there's no risk.
Every one has their own philosophy on the matter. If you believe in Donnie's talent evaluation, wouldn't you want him to have as many shots from the barrel as possible? Late first round talents slip to the 2nd round all the time.
But you don't even need to draft someone at #31. It is a valuable asset you can package with your first rounder and move up in the draft for a player you love. There is a ton you can do with it but I digress.
Delon is a KEEPER!!
(01-30-2020, 04:23 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]But you don't even need to draft someone at #31. It is a valuable asset
Delon is a KEEPER!!
I think they are both valuable assets, as is JB. We should treat them all as such.
(01-30-2020, 04:10 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ] (01-30-2020, 03:35 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, lets throw everything we got at the table for RoCo.
Do you mean RoCo or Iggy? I mostly understand if you're talking Iggy, not so much RoCo. I would for sure throw more out there for RoCo, and rightfully so, his body of work, contract and age is much more beneficial to the team than Iggy.
(01-30-2020, 04:08 PM)BasketballJones41 Wrote: [ -> ]Then take Satoransky into the TPE.
After the WCS trade, Sato doesn't fit inside the TPE. You could probably switch DW for Brunson and add Sato and the deal works.
more edits: Nope, can't do that either, in order to get OPJ, Sato and Mark, I think it has to be more worth their while than just taking on OPJ's contract. Felicio would have to be included, and can be in the TPE. I'm not certain Chi would trade Mark and Sato for this, but this deal does work:
OPJ, Sato and Mark for THJ, Lee, Brunson and JJ
then
Felicio for TPE and GSW
Saves them tons of money now and in the future and starts them off on another rebuild.
We don't need THJ if we're getting Sato IMO and Curry backs up Sato pretty dang well.
I like it. Your way definitely makes more sense.
(01-30-2020, 02:36 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]My goodness, Robert Covington is so damn overrated. He is as inefficient as Wesley Matthews on offense, and that's with 2 healthy Achilles heels but comes with the Trevor Ariza hype at one tenth of the latter's accomplishments.
He is a little better defender than DFS but at 3 times the price? And he'll be 30 next year? His "best contract in the league" claim is also a bunch of hyperbole. You can find 3/D guys at $10M or less every summer. Hard pass.
As far as Iggy goes, MBT would be idiotic to throw in the GS 2nd for him. It's either Lee or Delon or no deal. That GS 2nd is like a late first rounder.
Lets say Mavs' 1st round pick is at #20. They can package #20 and #31 to move up in the first for a guy they really like at #15. That pick is much more valuable than 3 months of Iggy, and I say that as a guy who really wants Iggy here. If MBT give it up for a rental, they haven't learned from their past mistakes.
A little better? Call me when DFS Makes an All NBA 1st Defense Team or finish 4th in DPOY. He's had a down year so far but 30 isn't even that old. He's got at least another good 3-4 years.
(01-30-2020, 04:23 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]You already know what you have in Delon Wright. Average bench play and $18M the next 2 summers. Players like him literally grow on trees in free agency every year.
This is the part of your whole take which is shock value. Wright is good enough to start for many teams in the league, so "average bench play" is a shock value slap. As a bench player, he's far above average. Maybe Brunson will get there someday. And no, Wright's not overpaid. Not underpaid, but his contract is nowhere near the almost-albatross of a guy like pre-injury Powell, but closer to the genuine value of Maxi. Very movable, though not a carrot like Brunson's deal would be.
Let's put it this way - 1) Brunson has more value in trade. 2) Wright has more value to the Mavs on the court for the next 2 1/2 years or so. You keep Wright, if possible, and you trade Brunson, if necessary. And one of them has got to go. If the guy we get is a clear starter, I'm okay with Wright being traded. If it's a simple bench upgrade, I'd be irritated if the Mavs traded Wright instead of Brunson.
What has RoCo accomplished outside of riding elite defenders in Simmons/Embiid's coattails for 1 season? People conveniently forget he was hot garbage that year in the playoffs too, which is a big reason why PHI got rid of him and his "amazing, bargain contract." He is expendable.
Mark my words. Whoever overpays for him will regret it unless he goes to a championship contender like Lakers/Clippers/Bucks to mask his flaws. He is the next Trevor Ariza in terms of hype.
Covington was a worse player than DFS at age 26, which is where the latter is right now. I will gladly take DFS's contract and age over Covington + potential asking price. I am sure the Mavs would too.
(01-30-2020, 04:39 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]which is a big reason why PHI got rid of him and his "amazing, bargain contract." He is expendable.
They “got rid of him” as a central piece to getting Butler...
(01-30-2020, 04:39 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]What has RoCo accomplished outside of riding elite defenders in Simmons/Embiid's coattails for 1 season? People conveniently forget he was hot garbage that year in the playoffs too, which is a big reason why PHI got rid of him and his "amazing, bargain contract." He is expendable.
Mark my words. Whoever overpays for him will regret it unless he goes to a championship contender like Lakers/Clippers/Bucks to mask his flaws. He is the next Trevor Ariza in terms of hype.
Covington was a worse player than DFS at age 26, which is where the latter is right now. I will gladly take DFS's contract and age over Covington + potential asking price. I am sure the Mavs would too.
It´s getting old to respond to people that have strong opinions but nothing to back them up. Last season... after the RoCo trade a bottom 5 Minnesota defense suddenly was a top 5 defense. But I guess that´s only because they added Dario Saric as well.
He wasn´t great early in the season but is back to his former self now.
Might want to educate yourself...
https://fansided.com/2018/12/05/robert-c...candidate/
And by the way at age 26 RoCo averaged 12/6 with 2 stls and 1 blk. Ranked 4th in the entire league in DRPM. 1st non big.
Is there another DFS in a different universe that has done the same?
(01-30-2020, 04:39 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]What has RoCo accomplished outside of riding elite defenders in Simmons/Embiid's coattails for 1 season? People conveniently forget he was hot garbage that year in the playoffs too, which is a big reason why PHI got rid of him and his "amazing, bargain contract." He is expendable.
Mark my words. Whoever overpays for him will regret it unless he goes to a championship contender like Lakers/Clippers/Bucks to mask his flaws. He is the next Trevor Ariza in terms of hype.
Covington was a worse player than DFS at age 26, which is where the latter is right now. I will gladly take DFS's contract and age over Covington + potential asking price. I am sure the Mavs would too.
Then the Mavs don't want to win sh#t, because DFS is binarily incapable of anchoring a defense, while RoCo can. Thanks for playing, though.
RoCo's an elite defender. If Mavs can get him without giving up DFS that would be ideal. I might give up DFS to get him, not sure if the Mavs will pull the trigger on such a deal tho. Do love me some RoCo.
(01-30-2020, 05:04 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-30-2020, 04:39 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]What has RoCo accomplished outside of riding elite defenders in Simmons/Embiid's coattails for 1 season? People conveniently forget he was hot garbage that year in the playoffs too, which is a big reason why PHI got rid of him and his "amazing, bargain contract." He is expendable.
Mark my words. Whoever overpays for him will regret it unless he goes to a championship contender like Lakers/Clippers/Bucks to mask his flaws. He is the next Trevor Ariza in terms of hype.
Covington was a worse player than DFS at age 26, which is where the latter is right now. I will gladly take DFS's contract and age over Covington + potential asking price. I am sure the Mavs would too.
It´s getting old to respond to people that have strong opinions but nothing to back them up. Last season... after the RoCo trade a bottom 5 Minnesota defense suddenly was a top 5 defense. But I guess that´s only because they added Dario Saric as well.
He wasn´t great early in the season but is back to his former self now.
Might want to educate yourself...
https://fansided.com/2018/12/05/robert-c...candidate/
And by the way at age 26 RoCo averaged 12/6 with 2 stls and 1 blk. Ranked 4th in the entire league in DRPM. 1st non big.
Is there another DFS in a different universe that has done the same?
https://media.giphy.com/media/52uaU0IFFIJ56/giphy.gif