MavsBoard

Lonzo is intriguing, but I doubt he can be really effective (and happy) playing offball and there are not many back up PG minutes with Mavs. Brunson is great for that role.

(08-13-2020, 01:16 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-13-2020, 11:22 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Now that he's distanced himself from his father, I wonder if Lonzo would be a good fit here? Good defender, good secondary ball handler and distributor, picked up his 3% very well this year (37.5% on 6.3 att). Only real complaints I have looking at his numbers is his TOVs, FT% and overall FG%, which are all pretty dang bad. 

He'll be 23 to start next season so he fits our timeline. That also says he's still developing which is good to mold him with our coaching staff still. If he's available for somewhat cheap (seems he'd be easier to pry from them than Jrue would be, esp if his team has a problem with him, which is a red flag though) and passes some type of inquiry on why this report came out I think I'd be all for that. Those who are looking to add Dunn, I'd think they'd be all over this too

I'd be all over trying to add Lonzo for the right price. He seems like the perfect guard to lead the 2nd unit off the bench, while at the same time being perfectly suited to play the off ball role and be a secondary playmaker. He can't really score consistently, but his playmaking is well documented and he can defend well. 

And one of his biggest assets is his size (pun intended). Him being 6'6 means the Mavs shortest person on the court theoretically would be Lonzo. I don't know what the Pels would even want, but the Mavs do have a replacement guard in Wright that is locked up on a much cheaper deal. I wouldn't go all out trying to get him but it'd be an interesting avenue. 

There are some legit worries however. Lonzo naturally comes with a lot of drama. His dad, his reality tv show, etc. Mavs historically do not like guys like that. Lonzo also has a QO of 14.5 million. I don't think he's worth anything more than 10-12 a year. Who's to say Lonzo doesn't just take the QO and then wield the power of veto for any trade? Risky stuff.

Still think that Lonzo is at least an above average starter in the modern NBA. Right now he basically plays like an oldman JKidd with less veteran leadership and experience.
His biggest weakness is the lack of on ball shot creation and finishing ability at the rim. Next to Luka he wouldn´t need both and could focus on his strengths:
- Spot up shooting. 39% from 3 on over 4 attempts.
- Transition offense
- Team/Help defense and rebounding


If the Pelicans really want to trade him the Mavs should be all over it. Maybe they could even expand the trade to include Favors (sign and trade/ seperate deal) or Holiday. The Mavs add win now pieces while the Pelicans rebuild around Ingram and Zion.

Curry + THJ + 18 + 31 + 2025 1st for Lonzo + Holiday

Curry + THJ + 18 + 31 for Lonzo + Favors

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(08-13-2020, 01:48 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I know we criticize the Mavs for FA hunting but could they actually deliver in 2021? Mavs will be presumably coming off back-to-back playoff appearances (absent injury this is a good probability) and back-to-back Luka MVP nods (again with good health). Mavs will have Luka pre-max contract at around 23 yrs old I guess? Plus KP who will be around 27 locked up. I am sure Mavs will have a max-slot open. The only chance that doesn't happen is if they find their third star this summer. 

Is there any reason that team couldn't actually attract a top star? Giannis would be the dream, albeit a lower-percentage chance. Your other top tier stars already have a home in LA. The main issue to me is that there just aren't many guys that are worth a max slot that would be actually available.

I don't know that Dirk was ever in this situation in his prime like Luka + KP will be in. They will be in their prime with a max slot available to add a third star (should said star actually be available?).

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(08-13-2020, 01:43 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-13-2020, 01:19 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only one who really likes WCS, Burke, and MKG for our bench next year and is afraid that the Mavs will find a way not to retain any of them?

Burke and MKG would be deep bench guys, number 11 and 12, but could serve certain uses quite well - MKG as situational defensive stopper, Burke as a microwave. The one who really pisses me off (in advance) is WCS. I know he's away from the bubble for reasonable family issues, but I have a sense that he and the Mavs have given up on each other, that there's a sense that "the experiment didn't work out." Horse pucky. Look at his numbers here. He was a rich man's Powell in the best way, whereas Powell is going to be a poor man's Powell coming off of injury. But let's pay Powell five times as much to be one fifth as good.

I didn't understand why Burke was so expendable last year when his play on the court was reasonably good. We love our AARP JJB.

Agree on MKG. Not sure about Burke. Out on WCS.

Vet min for MKG and extended shooting practice during the offseason. Maybe even start from scratch and completly rebuild his jumper. If possible bring in Dirk or even Holger to help him. MKG as a defender and hustle player is useful as a 10 mins of the bench guy. MKG with an at least average jumper is a starter. Classic low risk high reward move.

Burke is hit or miss every single game. Basically a smaller THJ. Just as streaky but on a good night he can carry the scoring load. I just don´t see any minutes for him. Brunson is younger and better. Curry is better. Mavs don´t have enough minutes for another undersized guard. If he is willing to sit on the bench as the 3rd or 4th option at PG sure. Otherwise no. Obviously on a vet min deal.

WCS won´t be as cheap as the other two. He also is easily replaced by any average rim runner. Wright, Powell...doesn´t matter. Whoever plays that role in RCs offense looks good. Would rather add a cheap in free agency or the draft. Also don´t think that the Mavs will move Powell or Boban. No roster spot for another pricy non shooting big.

MKG is not even really an NBA player. I think that experiment has failed. I get the feeling WCS won't be back but I still like his game. Powell will be back in some capacity and Rick I think finally has some use for Boban so I would be surprised if the MBT gets any more true bigs. It's more likely he goes small with tweener PFs that can play the 4 or 5. MKG is kind of that but has zero offensive ability so I think you can do much better.

Burke is fine as a 3rd PG but if Brunson is back does he have a spot? Maybe, we know Rick loves guards and Brunson also plays SG. JJB might retire at some point. Who knows.

MKG has been really good in the limited minutes he played in the bubble. Pre bubble he wasn´t in the rotation. Mostly because he was out of shape. He is still working on his conditioning but I wouldn´t consider it a failed experiment. He certainly outplayed the other available end of the bench options (Jackson, Reaves, Cleveland).
In his 3 bubble games he played a total of 28 minutes. Mavs are +28 with him on the floor. Against Utah he anchored the defense during the game winning run. Against Portland he prevented Melo from abusing the Mavs in the post. Jackson and DFS were helpless.
If I had to choose between another undersized PG like Burke or a defensive specialist like MKG I would go for the SF/PF that can guard the best opposing player evey single time.

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...00449?s=20

I'm in on Lonzo. Good defender, doesn't shothunt, has improved vastly from three (38% this year on 6+ attempts per game), 6'6 and athletic. Enters RFA by 2021.

(08-13-2020, 02:00 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Still think that Lonzo is at least an above average starter in the modern NBA. Right now he basically plays like an oldman JKidd with less veteran leadership and experience.
His biggest weakness is the lack of on ball shot creation and finishing ability at the rim. Next to Luka he wouldn´t need both and could focus on his strengths:
- Spot up shooting. 39% from 3 on over 4 attempts.
- Transition offense
- Team/Help defense and rebounding


If the Pelicans really want to trade him the Mavs should be all over it. Maybe they could even expand the trade to include Favors (sign and trade/ seperate deal) or Holiday. The Mavs add win now pieces while the Pelicans rebuild around Ingram and Zion.

Curry + THJ + 18 + 31 + 2025 1st for Lonzo + Holiday

Curry + THJ + 18 + 31 for Lonzo + Favors

If we're going to trade Curry, I'd want at least Reddick back. Mavs need shooters. Curry is statistically one of the best of all time. We can't just readily give that away for an experiment. 

The Lonzo idea is growing on me. Pelican forums believe if the FO is going to trade anyone, it'd either be 1 of Lonzo or Jrue, not both, since both of them like playing the off guard. So I think that puts a wrench in your first trade proposal.

I think if we're going to trade for Lonzo, including both 18+31 feels like an overpay for me. One trade package I think that is deserving of that and solves our wing/shooting issues is 

THJ+Wright+18+31+another pick to CHI for OPJ+Markkanen. Bulls seem out on Markkanen and are trying to save money. This trade saves the Bulls 6 million and gives them a point guard they desperately need and a shooting guard if they want to try and explore trading Lavine.

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(08-13-2020, 01:19 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only one who really likes WCS, Burke, and MKG for our bench next year and is afraid that the Mavs will find a way not to retain any of them?

Yes...?

Just kidding. I'm out on WCS. He had multiple chances to shine here and he never did. I would rather just give more minutes to Boban. He's shown he can at least be effective on offense, and his sheer size is enough to at least cause teams to think about driving. Also since Powell is hypothetically going to be coming back, there isn't much of a reason to retain WCS.

MKG Im also out on. You can't have a guy on an NBA roster that scores 2 points every 3 games, no matter how good his defense his.

Burke I really like. I liked him last season and was puzzled why the Mavs made no attempts to resign him on the cheap and instead go for someone like Wright. Especially because Burke showed some flashes of some serious offensive talent to end the year last year.

Re: the response comments on WCS - I get it, no one else here likes him. I remember watching games, seeing his excellent big man play, and then reading other guys who were watching the same game I was bitching about him. Maybe I just don't know how to watch basketball. No, he can't shoot from the outside, but neither can Powell, and WCS was better than him in every other phase of the game. And his efficiency and RPM numbers bear out that he was good for us. I do agree that we can't afford to split our MLE this summer - desperately important to get a starter with it - so he isn't likely to be here next year. But I think it's a damn shame. I suppose I'm just the WCS Balkis.

Since you didn't show much interest in my 3-D guards overview, how about we just improve offense. Sacramento locked themselves in near tax contracts with a team who can't even come close to making playoffs. Hield is overpaid but his contract si declining. And Hield is light out shooter that would just shine with Luka, who is much better distributer than Fox. THJ is poor mans Hield. He would give Sacramento more flexibility. They can let him go in 2021, resign him in 2021 at MLE level or trade his expiring contract. However, Sacramento would have to compensate us for taking that overpaid 4 year contract. Ideas about Horford for Hield were thrown around, but I think this might be better for them moving forward.

Sac: THJ
Dal: Hield, #13

(08-13-2020, 06:02 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Since you didn't show much interest in my 3-D guards overview, how about we just improve offense. Sacramento locked themselves in near tax contracts with a team who can't even come close to making playoffs. Hield is overpaid but his contract si declining. And Hield is light out shooter that would just shine with Luka, who is much better distributer than Fox. THJ is poor mans Hield. He would give Sacramento more flexibility. They can let him go in 2021, resign him in 2021 at MLE level or trade his expiring contract. However, Sacramento would have to compensate us for taking that overpaid 4 year contract. Ideas about Horford for Hield were thrown around, but I think this might be better for them moving forward.

Sac: THJ
Dal: Hield, #13

Thats a very interesting idea. But it would effectively ruin the Mavs capspace in 2021. Obviously capspace can always be manufactured, but it'd provide a roadblock in the Giannis sweepstakes. 

I like Hield a lot. He thinks he's better than he is, but he provides elite shooting. I doubt SAC would give up Hield AND their lottery pick this year for just THJ. If they do then they might as well fire Vlade. Mavs would have 3 picks to throw around for a blockbuster trade.

(08-13-2020, 05:20 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Re: the response comments on WCS - I get it, no one else here likes him. I remember watching games, seeing his excellent big man play, and then reading other guys who were watching the same game I was bitching about him. Maybe I just don't know how to watch basketball. No, he can't shoot from the outside, but neither can Powell, and WCS was better than him in every other phase of the game. And his efficiency and RPM numbers bear out that he was good for us. I do agree that we can't afford to split our MLE this summer - desperately important to get a starter with it - so he isn't likely to be here next year. But I think it's a damn shame. I suppose I'm just the WCS Balkis.

I like WCS, I think he just never had a great chance to integrate himself in games because shortly after the trade, he was away from the team due to a family death. I wouldn’t offer him much more than his player option, but I’d be interested in bringing him back.

(08-13-2020, 06:07 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I doubt SAC would give up Hield

Hield is way overpaid to be a backup. Another option for them is to get rid of Barnes but I am affraid it will take more than #13 to get rid of that horrible contract.

Assuming Bogdan gets 15 per, Sacramento will have 111 mil locked in 9 players next season (not counting the #13 pick). Add 30 mil per for Fox and they will have 113 mil in just 7 players in 2021 (not counting their lottery picks). They have absolutely no way up unless they get rid of some of this terrible contracts. Unless of course Bagley starts producing healthy seasons and turns out to be a 25/10 player. Rumours also are, business is not great in Sacramento.

(08-13-2020, 06:07 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]they might as well fire Vlade

It is a mistery why they are still puting up with him. He has done an absolutely awful job.

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(08-13-2020, 06:18 PM)SamStetz Wrote: [ -> ]I like WCS, I think he just never had a great chance to integrate himself in games because shortly after the trade, he was away from the team due to a family death. I wouldn’t offer him much more than his player option, but I’d be interested in bringing him back.

WCS has a player option so it is his choice. If he doesn't take it, it is a signal he doesn't want to stay in Dallas. If I was him, I would take 1 year vet min contract somewhere where they would give him minutes. He will not get them in Dallas.

(08-13-2020, 06:02 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Since you didn't show much interest in my 3-D guards overview, how about we just improve offense. Sacramento locked themselves in near tax contracts with a team who can't even come close to making playoffs. Hield is overpaid but his contract si declining. And Hield is light out shooter that would just shine with Luka, who is much better distributer than Fox. THJ is poor mans Hield. He would give Sacramento more flexibility. They can let him go in 2021, resign him in 2021 at MLE level or trade his expiring contract. However, Sacramento would have to compensate us for taking that overpaid 4 year contract. Ideas about Horford for Hield were thrown around, but I think this might be better for them moving forward.

Sac: THJ
Dal: Hield, #13

That trade to me is more about the #13 than it is about Hield. If we did that we’d really have to get rim protectors cause the perimeter would continue to get abused. Having #13,18 and 31 would be some really good assets to get what we want in trade or draft. I agree that they probably wouldn’t give up the pick.

(08-13-2020, 06:52 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I agree that they probably wouldn’t give up the pick.

I was playing with the idea of a pick swap but getting from 18 to 13 is not really worth it imho.

I think Sacramento needs to do something. Current team is just not good and they locked up all their players on high long term contracts, that kill all their short and medium term flexibility. Assuming Fox and Bagley are untouchable, the only positive contract on their team is Holmes. Bjelica is probably at fair value, the rest (Barnes, Hield, Joseph) are way overpaid. I don't think any team will be sending good players on good contracts back for Hield. They can of course go after someone like Tobias Harris, who is even more overpaid than Hield.

(08-13-2020, 05:20 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Re: the response comments on WCS - I get it, no one else here likes him. I remember watching games, seeing his excellent big man play, and then reading other guys who were watching the same game I was bitching about him. Maybe I just don't know how to watch basketball. No, he can't shoot from the outside, but neither can Powell, and WCS was better than him in every other phase of the game. And his efficiency and RPM numbers bear out that he was good for us. I do agree that we can't afford to split our MLE this summer - desperately important to get a starter with it - so he isn't likely to be here next year. But I think it's a damn shame. I suppose I'm just the WCS Balkis.

I would like him if we got rid of DP, but there is no way he gets any time here with him on the team still. I also don’t think the MBT would get rid of DP.

I didn't have time to mention this earlier, but re: MKG - we've seen when he's played in the bubble that he does not hurt the Mavs offensively when he's on the floor with Luka, KP, and two shooters, because that's an avalanche of offense even without another offensive player. MKG would be fantastic in a DSteve-like starting role in such an offense, and his presence on defense moves the needle significantly. As for being somewhat useful on offense, I think it's far more likely that he could be trained to be a rim-running roll man than to learn to shoot from the outside. Let's say the Mavs were able to trade for Aaron Gordon and sign a defensive-minded combo guard for the MLE.

Luka-Brunson
New guard-Curry
MKG-DFS
AG-Maxi
KP-WCS/Powell

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(08-13-2020, 07:12 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-13-2020, 05:20 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Re: the response comments on WCS - I get it, no one else here likes him. I remember watching games, seeing his excellent big man play, and then reading other guys who were watching the same game I was bitching about him. Maybe I just don't know how to watch basketball. No, he can't shoot from the outside, but neither can Powell, and WCS was better than him in every other phase of the game. And his efficiency and RPM numbers bear out that he was good for us. I do agree that we can't afford to split our MLE this summer - desperately important to get a starter with it - so he isn't likely to be here next year. But I think it's a damn shame. I suppose I'm just the WCS Balkis.

I would like him if we got rid of DP, but there is no way he gets any time here with him on the team still. I also don’t think the MBT would get rid of DP.

DP is going to be very rusty when he gets back, and may not get back for a few months. If Donnie gets Carlisle a defensive coordinator who will force him to play defensively acceptable lineups, there should be a decent 20 mpg for WCS next year at least. And if someone would just talk sense into the MBT, they'll work to get out of the Powell contract regardless.

(08-13-2020, 10:02 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]MKG-DFS

Come on. MKG is a borderline end of bench guy at best, not a starter on a contender. He was totally cooked by Booker today. 

(08-13-2020, 10:02 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]And if someone would just talk sense into the MBT, they'll work to get out of the Powell contract regardless.

Unfortunatelly that is not realistic. His contract is a huge negative after the injury. Only a decent season could bring his value up enough to consider an option of trading him next offseason.

(08-13-2020, 10:09 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-13-2020, 10:02 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]MKG-DFS

Come on. MKG is a borderline end of bench guy at best, not a starter on a contender. He was totally cooked by Booker today. 

(08-13-2020, 10:02 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]And if someone would just talk sense into the MBT, they'll work to get out of the Powell contract regardless.

Unfortunatelly that is not realistic. His contract is a huge negative after the injury. Only a decent season could bring his value up enough to consider an option of trading him next offseason.

Not only did Booker cook him the whole Suns team did.  At one point I think he gave up like 10 straight points (was a -23 before half).  For a defensive guy, he looked terrible out there.

(08-13-2020, 12:39 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]I´m starting to think we might want to move Curry. He´s prone to get these soft tissue/fatigue injuries, whenever he plays for awhile. His contract and level of play still make him an interesting trade piece, especially for a contender.

Straight up for Josh Richardson makes a lot of sense for both teams. We need defense. They need cheap elite outside shooting. They simply cannot pay Richardson, but they can keep Curry around long-term at his discount.

Go after Dario Saric with the full MLE.

Take Kira Lewis and Tyler Bey.

We´d stock-pile trade assets (Richardson, Saric, 18+31), while improving the team significantly.

Doncic/Brunson/Lewis
Richardson/THJ/Wright
DFS/Bey/MKG
Saric/Kleber/
Porzingis/Powell/WCS/Boban

I think that´s as good as it gets for 2020/2021.

I think the Curry for Richardson plan makes great sense.  I don't think DFS starts over THJ in this scenario.  Richardson can guard 1 through 3 negating the need to start DFS.  He can also spend some time handling on-ball duties.  I'm not a big Burke fan, but seeing him next to Luka gives you a vision of just how dynamic the team could be if the other guard could hit 3's, play D and handle a few plays with the ball in their hand.  The limitation we have right now is THJ can't create.  Curry can a little, but plays no D.  Wright plays D, but can't hit (or won't take) 3's.

I also don't think Saric (no perimeter D) is the answer next to KP.  If you start Doncic, Richardson, THJ and KP, you have all the O you could ever need.  I'm not totally bought in that the lesson of the Powell injury is the team "has" to play 5-out to maximize KP.  What we learned is the team needs usage from KP.  We don't need to pair him with a player whose best role is rolling to the rim.  Does this player have to hit 3's?  It would help when KP posts up.  But LAC seems to get by just fine when Zubac is in the game and he doesn't hit 3's.  I think versatile defender is the main requirement of this player.  There are a bunch of possibilities, but I don't think Saric is the right guy.

Without getting into draft picks, I think it should look more like this:

Luka/Brunson
Richardson/Wright
THJ/DFS
FA-Forward/Maxi
KP/Powell

There isn't really a hole there.  You can draft BPA.  If you went for an older vet as the FA-Forward (like Millsap), then maybe 18 can be used for someone to grow into that position and provide Powell insurance.  If you traded Wright for someone like Young, you could draft an offensive minded guard (or sign one in free agency) to spread the floor for the second unit.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/7...hing-right

Speaking of Horford for Heild (Holmes), I think the Sixers will try and dump him somewhere.  I have seen Love for Horford as well.  

I think the Mavs could use him but his contract is way too high and Horford is not really a timeline player.   Maybe as a last last resort and holding our nose.

Bleacher report had this trade:

"Dallas Mavericks traded Dwight Powell, Delon Wright and Justin Jackson to the Philadelphia 76ers for Al Horford."

(08-14-2020, 07:40 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/7...hing-right

Speaking of Horford for Heild (Holmes), I think the Sixers will try and dump him somewhere.  I have seen Love for Horford as well.  

I think the Mavs could use him but his contract is way too high and Horford is not really a timeline player.   Maybe as a last last resort and holding our nose.

Bleacher report had this trade:

"Dallas Mavericks traded Dwight Powell, Delon Wright and Justin Jackson to the Philadelphia 76ers for Al Horford."

Hard to pass that up based on talent.  All we are giving up is Worthless Jackson, Ill-fitting Wright and Coming off of injury Powell.

The question is whether the fit with KP would be any better than the fit with Embiid.  Before we get to that, let me just say that having at least one of Horford or KP on the floor at all times would be incredible.  Horford is a net positive of a little over 2 points in Philly.  The team has no advantage (net rating of 0.1) when the two centers play together.  But, the team does very well with one or the other.  Maxi would fit well next to either.

Horford has been a very good perimeter defender, though that may diminish as he ages.  He tends to operate in the high post and is very impactful in the PnR game.  So, something would have to give when he played with KP (one would have to go stand in the corner).  Horford isn't a fantastic shooter from the corner.  About half his minutes would come next to KP, so while the D would probably be much improved, I have questions about how the two of them would play together offensively.  Not insurmountable questions considering the outgoing package.  Just questions.

(08-14-2020, 07:14 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Without getting into draft picks, I think it should look more like this:

Luka/Brunson
Richardson/Wright
THJ/DFS
FA-Forward/Maxi
KP/Powell

Like the whole post, but that team doesn't look finished to me. I don't like THJ in the 3 spot and don't think JB and Wright are a good pairing.