The more I think ab it the more I think the Mavs need a big move to compete for the playoffs next year.
It's hard to picture who out of this top 8 (now including Portland) is going to drop off. There will likely be at least one team due to injury but the only team I can think of right now would be OKC if they decide to make major moves and/or blow it up.
GSW will be coming back very strong and likely be a top 4 team.
Suns, Grizzlies, Pels are all pretty good young teams. I like the Suns and Pels more than the Grizz. I don't believe in the Kings, Spurs or Timberwolves really. I feel like Mavs really need an upgrade. Luka + KP + decent role players I am not sure is enough.
(08-15-2020, 05:03 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]The more I think ab it the more I think the Mavs need a big move to compete for the playoffs next year.
It's hard to picture who out of this top 8 (now including Portland) is going to drop off. There will likely be at least one team due to injury but the only team I can think of right now would be OKC if they decide to make major moves and/or blow it up.
GSW will be coming back very strong and likely be a top 4 team.
Suns, Grizzlies, Pels are all pretty good young teams. I like the Suns and Pels more than the Grizz. I don't believe in the Kings, Spurs or Timberwolves really. I feel like Mavs really need an upgrade. Luka + KP + decent role players I am not sure is enough.
I've said it over and over and over again since before the 2019 offseason - the Mavs are one of the weakest teams in the entire league in the ranking of their 3rd and 4th best players versus those of other teams, and must upgrade in order to be fielding a deserving playoff team.
(08-15-2020, 05:03 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]The more I think ab it the more I think the Mavs need a big move to compete for the playoffs next year.
I wouldn't be so worried about getting into playoffs. Mavs offense is so good that should get us through regular season. Problems start once defense levels go up. Mavs need to seriously improve their defense to become serious contenders.
(08-15-2020, 05:36 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2020, 05:03 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]The more I think ab it the more I think the Mavs need a big move to compete for the playoffs next year.
I wouldn't be so worried about getting into playoffs. Mavs offense is so good that should get us through regular season. Problems start once defense levels go up. Mavs need to seriously improve their defense to become serious contenders.
I think I feel pretty confident aside from injuries which can disrupt any teams chances. Luka is a special player, you will have KP getting more comfortable, well-coached and whatnot. I still want a big talent upgrade. THJ had a nice season but the Mavs don't need to fall in love with him. He is the beneficiary of Rick and Luka. I can live with 1 more year of THJ if need-be but if they extend him I will go nuts. You are right about defense. Mavs need defense in a big way.
(08-16-2020, 07:43 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2020, 05:36 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2020, 05:03 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]The more I think ab it the more I think the Mavs need a big move to compete for the playoffs next year.
I wouldn't be so worried about getting into playoffs. Mavs offense is so good that should get us through regular season. Problems start once defense levels go up. Mavs need to seriously improve their defense to become serious contenders.
I think I feel pretty confident aside from injuries which can disrupt any teams chances. Luka is a special player, you will have KP getting more comfortable, well-coached and whatnot. I still want a big talent upgrade. THJ had a nice season but the Mavs don't need to fall in love with him. He is the beneficiary of Rick and Luka. I can live with 1 more year of THJ if need-be but if they extend him I will go nuts. You are right about defense. Mavs need defense in a big way.
I would love to extend THJ for a reasonable price.
Ideally frontloaded 4 years with a TO.
He is a starterlevel player und we are already short on them.
Even if we don't like to have him longterm (I do) it's much easier to upgrade than to get an better one out of nowhere. We weren't even able to get someone like Green or Beverly with a boatload og money.
Then we can focus to get another starter.
(08-16-2020, 08:46 AM)Nets NMapka Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2020, 07:43 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2020, 05:36 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2020, 05:03 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]The more I think ab it the more I think the Mavs need a big move to compete for the playoffs next year.
I wouldn't be so worried about getting into playoffs. Mavs offense is so good that should get us through regular season. Problems start once defense levels go up. Mavs need to seriously improve their defense to become serious contenders.
I think I feel pretty confident aside from injuries which can disrupt any teams chances. Luka is a special player, you will have KP getting more comfortable, well-coached and whatnot. I still want a big talent upgrade. THJ had a nice season but the Mavs don't need to fall in love with him. He is the beneficiary of Rick and Luka. I can live with 1 more year of THJ if need-be but if they extend him I will go nuts. You are right about defense. Mavs need defense in a big way.
I would love to extend THJ for a reasonable price.
Ideally frontloaded 4 years with a TO.
He is a starterlevel player und we are already short on them.
Even if we don't like to have him longterm (I do) it's much easier to upgrade than to get an better one out of nowhere. We weren't even able to get someone like Green or Beverly with a boatload og money.
That was when people suspected Luka might be the European Jesus. Now the DNA results are in.
(08-16-2020, 08:46 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2020, 07:43 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I think I feel pretty confident aside from injuries which can disrupt any teams chances. Luka is a special player, you will have KP getting more comfortable, well-coached and whatnot. I still want a big talent upgrade. THJ had a nice season but the Mavs don't need to fall in love with him. He is the beneficiary of Rick and Luka. I can live with 1 more year of THJ if need-be but if they extend him I will go nuts. You are right about defense. Mavs need defense in a big way.
I would love to extend THJ for a reasonable price.
Ideally frontloaded 4 years with a TO.
He is a starterlevel player und we are already short on them.
Even if we don't like to have him longterm (I do) it's much easier to upgrade than to get an better one out of nowhere. We weren't even able to get someone like Green or Beverly with a boatload og money.
Then we can focus to get another starter.
Agree. Hardaway was statistically a top 50 player this season. Was it real and repeatable? If yes, you keep him. If no, you try to sell high. All indications are the team believes it was real.
On another team building note, I was tooling around on BBIndex today and they have a section that ranks teams on various elements of the game. Here's what we are really bad at:
Finishing (26th in the league)
Playmaking (29th in the league)
Perimeter D (28th in the league)
Whoever we bring in (Draft, Trade or Free Agent), we need them to address these areas. We talk a lot about the need for a 3&D wing. But THJ's ability to play SG and SF and DFS's ability to play SF and PF means we can pretty easily cover the wing. The additions need to push DFS and Curry to the bench. One needs to be able to cover bigger bodied wings and perimeter bigs while complementing KP's game on offense. The other needs to add some playmaking and perimeter D...probably from the guard position while also hitting open shots when playing off the ball. Wright is actually rated very good at playmaking and perimeter D and well above average at finishing. Unfortunately, he has big holes in other parts of his game that have been a poor fit here so far.
(08-16-2020, 09:44 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I was tooling around on BBIndex today and they have a section that ranks teams on various elements of the game.
I wonder what is the criteria for playmaking and finishing? Because I didn't notice that to be problem. Apart from offense focusing too much on Luka.
(08-15-2020, 03:49 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Well point stands. They probably asked about Giles before Jackson.
Fact still stands, they wanted Barnes in the worst way ($85M extension). Extracting closer value to that would have made it an even trade. I'm not saying ask for Giles instead of JJ, I'm saying Giles in addition to JJ. Two prospects that hadn't shown much to that date in terms of promise (because if they had, they would have played more that season).
That's the negotiation part that is missing with our FO. If they balk on it, and we know he's going to opt out that last offseason, fine, we can have the extra $3.2M in cap room (albeit, we showed we wouldn't have used appropriately). We also made the deal with either 1 or 2 days left to negotiate and shop Barnes to other teams before the TDL. There was no need to make the deal when they did.
If at the last moment nothing else materializes and Sac still hasn't budged because they know they would be offering HB that contract in the offseason (where they
might have to compete with other teams for him because if they believe he is worth that contract, they have to believe there might be another team out there that does too), then we as fans also know they exhausted all avenues they could and JJ was the most they could get for him (still not the best extraction of value, but also the best our FO can do in the situation they were in).
(08-15-2020, 03:57 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs2019 and IGT, I just wanted to point out with regard to Justin Jackson that he looked like an asset and a player with promising potential all last year - both with the Kings and the Mavs.
His rookie season he played 22.1 mpg and started 41 games. Second season with Sac he played 20.8 mpg and started 3 games. That suggests regression or evaluation of not good enough on a team that needs talent to materialize. He showed some of our fans some amount of promise last year when he got here. I have to say, I wasn't all that impressed with his contribution in terms of what I saw we needed and what he gave us at his position. We need multi position defense more than anything from the mid-sized wing and he showed he can't even defend his position. His 3% was nice, and increased in a small sample size, that's the only promise he gave, to me, that's not good enough because everything else was pretty meh to horrible.
(08-16-2020, 09:17 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2020, 08:46 AM)Nets NMapka Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2020, 07:43 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2020, 05:36 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2020, 05:03 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]The more I think ab it the more I think the Mavs need a big move to compete for the playoffs next year.
I wouldn't be so worried about getting into playoffs. Mavs offense is so good that should get us through regular season. Problems start once defense levels go up. Mavs need to seriously improve their defense to become serious contenders.
I think I feel pretty confident
I would love to extend THJ for a reasonable price.
Ideally frontloaded 4 years with a TO.
He is a starterlevel player und we are already short on them.
Even if we don't like to have him longterm (I do) it's much easier to upgrade than to get an better one out of nowhere. We weren't even able to get someone like Green or Beverly with a boatload og money.
That was when people suspected Luka might be the European Jesus. Now the DNA results are in.
That's fair, but I don't see the same attraction like KL or LeBron yet.
I have the feeling THJ really wants to be here. (He had his share of Knicks and Atlanta backing of of a good team for money.)
(08-15-2020, 03:57 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]it takes a major coaching effort to nuke a player as badly as the Mavs have Jackson.
I wouldn't be so harsh, but I agree some blame can be put on coaching staff. I think a lot of his problems are psychological, he is even missing open lay ups now. He was played out of position at PF, although he is clearly not one. One can argue this was because he can't guard SF, but hey, moving him to PF didn't improve his defensive contribution. On the contrary, he was mostly overpowered by much stronger guys.
What Kings did with Barnes is just beyond stupid. Wasn't it enough of an indication what is his realistic value, that Mavs basically gave him away for free. No one in the league gave better offer. And then Vlade goes and resigns him for same money. Mavs made a mistake trading Barnes. We should keep him, because he is clearly a very lucky person
On a more serious note, Mavs really didn't do well giving away Barnes. First they could sign the guys they did in free agency even with Barnes on the team (dump Lee). Second, they didn't get anything from Jackson, he has no positive value, just salary filler. Third, Barnes expiring contract (I assume he would opt in) could bring in more value. Fourth, Mavs could use a bit stronger guy playing PF.
Would you be willing to move Curry, DFS in addition to GSW, #18 if it got you Oladipo and Gordon?
Thinking a scenario where Mavs trade THJ + #18 for Oladipo with no guarantee he will resign (which lowers his trade value). Mavs then move other assets (Curry, DFS, GSW) for Gordon who has an extra year on his deal and thus is worth more. You would lose assets along the way but you are in very good shape.
Starting lineup would have this 4-pack:
Luka
Oladipo
Gordon
KP
Plus you could add another wing in FA with the full MLE. I don't think Powell will start again next to KP. Wright is a guy you might move for a better-fitting wing or guard.
(08-16-2020, 01:29 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Would you be willing to move Curry, DFS in addition to GSW, #18 if it got you Oladipo and Gordon?
Thinking a scenario where Mavs trade THJ + #18 for Oladipo with no guarantee he will resign (which lowers his trade value). Mavs then move other assets (Curry, DFS, GSW) for Gordon who has an extra year on his deal and thus is worth more. You would lose assets along the way but you are in very good shape.
Starting lineup would have this 4-pack:
Luka
Oladipo
Gordon
KP
Plus you could add another wing in FA with the full MLE. I don't think Powell will start again next to KP. Wright is a guy you might move for a better-fitting wing or guard.
That's a real gamble.
THJ, DFS, Curry and the picks for Gordon and who knows what is is left of Oladipo is an all-in-move.
I think I would prefer the picks and fillers for CP3 if I want to go all-in.
(08-16-2020, 01:46 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]That's a real gamble.
??? Oladipo and Gordon bring twice as much as THJ, Seth and DFS. If anything, the proposed trades are too weak for Indy and Orlando.
(08-16-2020, 01:59 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2020, 01:46 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]That's a real gamble.
??? Oladipo and Gordon bring twice as much as THJ, Seth and DFS. If anything, the proposed trades are too weak for Indy and Orlando.
Oladipo is not back to his great form and Gordon has never had a great run.
Fit could be akward and we would have no way of improvement left and less depth.
I think that's again our different valuation of THJ
(08-16-2020, 02:11 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2020, 01:59 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2020, 01:46 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]That's a real gamble.
??? Oladipo and Gordon bring twice as much as THJ, Seth and DFS. If anything, the proposed trades are too weak for Indy and Orlando.
Oladipo is not back to his great form and Gordon has never had a great run.
Fit could be akward and we would have no way of improvement left and less depth.
I think that's again our different valuation of THJ
I am surprised ppl wouldn't rather have Gordon, Oladipo for THJ, Seth, DFS and picks. I also think the trades are fair value. In my assumption Oladipo will not commit to resigning with his new team (unless it's like Miami or something) so that would hurt his value. In this scenario Indy is trying to get value vs letting him walk.
(08-16-2020, 03:09 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]In this scenario Indy is trying to get value vs letting him walk.
Not necessarily just that. Indy can also try to go for the title if once all their key players are healthy. Like Toronto did with Kawhi. Trading him most likely makes them worse
(08-16-2020, 01:29 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Would you be willing to move Curry, DFS in addition to GSW, #18 if it got you Oladipo and Gordon?
Thinking a scenario where Mavs trade THJ + #18 for Oladipo with no guarantee he will resign (which lowers his trade value). Mavs then move other assets (Curry, DFS, GSW) for Gordon who has an extra year on his deal and thus is worth more. You would lose assets along the way but you are in very good shape.
Starting lineup would have this 4-pack:
Luka
Oladipo
Gordon
KP
Plus you could add another wing in FA with the full MLE. I don't think Powell will start again next to KP. Wright is a guy you might move for a better-fitting wing or guard.
A couple of comments...
I don't know if you are the first to put DFS in a package for Gordon (or if this is the first time I've noticed it), but DFS is a really good fit for them. Not to mention he's a local boy. I have no idea what the package would need to be because I don't think we will be the only bidders. But if I'm Orlando I would make Finney-Smith a higher priority than the pick or anyone else on the roster frankly. We have a lot of guards and they have a lot of uncertainty around their guards (Augustin and MCW are free this summer, Fournier is UFA one of the next two summers and Fultz is RFA in 21). Wright and DFS miss matching Gordon by $136k, so anything involving Wright or Curry is going to require at least one more player.
I don't think we can consider Indy some eastern conference patsy. They are closer to the eastern conference equivalent of the Mav's. In fact, they made two moves most of us wish Dallas had made last summer (Warren and Brogdon). The last time they had a superstar free agent, they didn't give him away for junk. They got Oladipo and Sabonis for him. The unrealistic part of what you are discussing is the Oladipo part. BTW, we should probably think in terms of the cap in 21 being closer to $115mm than $125mm. Player movement by signature becomes much more challenging with teams having $10mm less than they were planning for.
(08-16-2020, 03:09 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2020, 02:11 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2020, 01:59 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2020, 01:46 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]That's a real gamble.
??? Oladipo and Gordon bring twice as much as THJ, Seth and DFS. If anything, the proposed trades are too weak for Indy and Orlando.
Oladipo is not back to his great form and Gordon has never had a great run.
Fit could be akward and we would have no way of improvement left and less depth.
I think that's again our different valuation of THJ
I am surprised ppl wouldn't rather have Gordon, Oladipo for THJ, Seth, DFS and picks. I also think the trades are fair value. In my assumption Oladipo will not commit to resigning with his new team (unless it's like Miami or something) so that would hurt his value. In this scenario Indy is trying to get value vs letting him walk.
It's not people necessarily, could be just me. And I'm wary of both this players and love THJ and DFS ( and Curry to an lesser extend).
Dan stated that SBJ's trade proposal of (Wright and Finney-Smith) for Gordon was a little short dollars wise. How about we expand that trade into a much bigger idea of Hardaway, Wright and Finney-Smith for Gordon and Fournier? If it takes both the picks 18 and 31 to make it happen, so be it. After that Cuban needs to pony up and buy BOS's two late 1st round picks and draft Tyler Bay and Desmond Bane.
Then use the MLE 70/30 or so on Campazzo and W. Hernangomez. And sign Burke for the vet min.
Porzingis / Powell / Marjanovic
Gordon / Kleber / Hernangomez
Duncic / Jackson / Bay
Fournier / Curry / Bane
Campazzo / Brunson / Burke