(01-12-2020, 08:57 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I mean I look at the eye test and he's not an NBA starter to me. I am encouraged to see him more aggressive putting the ball on the floor. He is actually really good if he has space. It catches the other team off guard. His defense is the most frustrating thing. Especially first quarter Powell tends to get lit up a bunch.
Funny thing about the eye test. It often lies. I assume you would agree that Maxi and KP are much more impactful defensively than Powell, right? So, if the number said Powell's impact was similar or better than one of those guys it would be a blow to the eye test?
Through 12/30, the team is 2.9 pp100 better defensively with Maxi, 2.5 pp100 better with Powell and 0.1 pp100 better with KP.
@"DanSchwartzman" you can have your own opinion. I don't hate Powell, I just don't like him as a starter. Maxi is a very good to great defender. Powell is a sometimes good team defender and his on-ball defense is usually terrible. Watching him against Jokic the other day, he actually did a good job in the first half which is rare. Powell gives you zero shot blocking. Again I don't hate him I just feel like this team has a much lower ceiling if Powell is your starting center. In my ideal world Powell and Maxi are your 3rd and 4th bigs.
(01-12-2020, 02:23 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]@"DanSchwartzman" you can have your own opinion. I don't hate Powell, I just don't like him as a starter. Maxi is a very good to great defender. Powell is a sometimes good team defender and his on-ball defense is usually terrible. Watching him against Jokic the other day, he actually did a good job in the first half which is rare. Powell gives you zero shot blocking. Again I don't hate him I just feel like this team has a much lower ceiling if Powell is your starting center. In my ideal world Powell and Maxi are your 3rd and 4th bigs.
I agree with you on this, Powell is useful but as a starter playing against other starters he is a liability.
The Lakers played us like they did not respect us down low and its not an indictment on Powell its just he is not good playing defense against physical power forwards.
Just look at the Playoff teams and give me a starting Center you think is worse than Powell. Do the same thing with DFS. We need to get better. Even though they are playing good, they have a low ceiling.
Ideally I would trade THJ also, but I believe that's not a priority right now.
Doncic/THJ/Starter 1/KP/Starter 2/Wright/Curry/DFS/Kleber/Powell. Is it possible to have a team like this? I don't think so. To get the 2nd starter we would need to trade one or two of our bench mob with our 2020 1st. Is Brunson/Jackson/Lee/2nd rounders enough to upgrade one of those positions at least?
(01-12-2020, 03:07 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]ust look at the Playoff teams and give me a starting Center you think is worse than Powell
East: Milwaukee, Boston, Brooklyn
West: LAL, LAC
(01-12-2020, 03:11 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (01-12-2020, 03:07 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]ust look at the Playoff teams and give me a starting Center you think is worse than Powell
East: Milwaukee, Boston, Brooklyn
West: LAL, LAC
You got me with BOS, Kanter/Theis vs Powell is a good debate (even though I would rather have Theiss). The other ones I just don't see how, but you are entitled to your opinion.
(01-12-2020, 03:11 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]East: Milwaukee
Brook Lopez is without a doubt one of the best centers in the NBA today.
Lakers have Howard who if he started is better than Powell. Clippers have Zubac who is a different player than Powell but is still very solid and Harrell who blows Powell out of the water.
Agree with you on Boston and Brooklyn though.
(01-12-2020, 04:27 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Brook Lopez is without a doubt one of the best centers in the NBA today.
He is shooting 28 % from three, has 0 inside game, can't switch on perimeter. He protects the rim, though. And people here call Powell a one trick pony...
It is difficult to compare players with different strengths and weaknesses. But Powell is definitely at least in the same league than centers from teams mentioned. And the question was about starters.
Is Jarrett Allen still in Brooklyn?
(01-12-2020, 04:41 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (01-12-2020, 04:27 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Brook Lopez is without a doubt one of the best centers in the NBA today.
He is shooting 28 % from three, has 0 inside game, can't switch on perimeter. He protects the rim, though. And people here call Powell a one trick pony...
It is difficult to compare players with different strengths and weaknesses. But Powell is definitely at least in the same league than centers from teams mentioned. And the question was about starters.
He actually is a great post player and improves his teams rebounding because he boxes out. Brook scores 1.14 PPP in the post this season. The Bucks are using him as a stretch 5 most of the time but when Giannis was out he got more inside touches.
Time flies but 3 1/2 years ago Brook was a 20ppg post up bigman. The way he adjusted his game to fit the modern NBA is impressive.
Interesting conversation, but I have a question. Is it right to compare Powell to centers? I’d argue that KP, Powell and Maxi are all PF’s (ESPN lists them that way on their RPM rankings). KP is more of a C on the defensive end. Does that make Powell the C on offense? How many other centers have Powell’s mobility on offense?
The point is if we are saying Powell shouldn’t be the starter on a championship team, then the question really should be how he compares to the second best “big” on good teams.
BTW, I’m not so myopic to say Powell is irreplaceable in the starting lineup (I was a Powell critic a couple years back when he had a horrendous November and Mak blindly continued praising him). I just think that finding a replacement starter that moves Powell to the bench will be harder to find than some think. What I object to is people saying Powell is “worthless” or has to be traded. That’s just ignorant and ignores a mountain of data that says the team plays very well when he is in the game (and has for quite a while now).
If the question is whether Powell can guard Anthony Davis or KAT or Jokic one on one. The answer is no. Does that make him “worthless”? Also no! Is it his fault that he’s asked to do that? Also no. The team decided to start the season knowing he couldn’t guard those guys and started the season this way anyway (and when everyone is healthy, it was actually working pretty well).
(01-12-2020, 04:46 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Is Jarrett Allen still in Brooklyn?
Ya and he's much better than Powell
To me, the Powell issue is really basic: what do you want from a big in the modern NBA? 1) Rebounds. 2) Rim protection. 3) Post defense. 4) Ability to stretch a defense with a three-point threat. 5) Picks. 6) Rim-rolling. Powell is good at the last two. He's rather pitiful at the first four. First double-double of the year? Are you friggin' kidding me?
Powell brings something quite helpful to the floor for the Mavs, but it's not $10 mil per year for the next four years helpful. And I will join SBJ and anyone else on the barricades that the Mavs will never contend with Powell in the starting lineup - not even if the Mavs found a way to add RoCo and Bog next to him with Luka and KP. He's a bench player who is paid like something more, and perhaps the biggest problem with him is not so much the contract as the Mavs' overbelief and overreliance on him.
(01-12-2020, 05:54 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting conversation, but I have a question. Is it right to compare Powell to centers? I’d argue that KP, Powell and Maxi are all PF’s (ESPN lists them that way on their RPM rankings). KP is more of a C on the defensive end. Does that make Powell the C on offense? How many other centers have Powell’s mobility on offense?
The point is if we are saying Powell shouldn’t be the starter on a championship team, then the question really should be how he compares to the second best “big” on good teams.
BTW, I’m not so myopic to say Powell is irreplaceable in the starting lineup (I was a Powell critic a couple years back when he had a horrendous November and Mak blindly continued praising him). I just think that finding a replacement starter that moves Powell to the bench will be harder to find than some think. What I object to is people saying Powell is “worthless” or has to be traded. That’s just ignorant and ignores a mountain of data that says the team plays very well when he is in the game (and has for quite a while now).
If the question is whether Powell can guard Anthony Davis or KAT or Jokic one on one. The answer is no. Does that make him “worthless”? Also no! Is it his fault that he’s asked to do that? Also no. The team decided to start the season knowing he couldn’t guard those guys and started the season this way anyway (and when everyone is healthy, it was actually working pretty well).
Damn Dan, stop it with the measured takes! I want my reactionary posts calling for everyone to be traded!
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/ScmA88oVeD78aEpd2O/giphy.gif)
Seems like ATL doesn't even want to throw 1st rounder for Drummond, only expirings. Would you be OK with one of these? (you can add 2nd rounders if you think it's DAL one-sided)
Trade A: DAL = Drummond, Wood. DET = Lee, Powell (Add Brunson if they want a young guy for Wood or just switch Wood for Morris and we get a good bench guy, but I really like Wood).
Trade B: DAL = Drummond, Rose. DET = Lee, Wright, Jackson (Had to add him to get us under the tax and I think they would want something for Rose).
Some scenarios with him in 2020:
Drummond doesn't fit in and takes his PO: We would be frustrated, but he becomes a good expiring for trades with teams needing a big.
Drummond doesn't fit in and doesn't take his PO: We would have at least 15M (I believe) to throw at players in FA (Thompson, Favors, Saric, Harrell).
Drummond does fit in and takes his PO: We have one and a half years with 3 great players and good pieces around. In 2021 we decide if it's worth to keep him or go get other good FA.
Drummond does fit in and doesn't takes his PO: Throwing money at a center is never a good idea (unless he is great). We could go over the cap to sign him and have 15M to throw at guys in FA.
What are your opinions on the trades and the scenarios? (Please correct me if I'm wrong with the cap stuff)
(01-12-2020, 10:47 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]1) Rebounds. 2) Rim protection. 3) Post defense. 4) Ability to stretch a defense with a three-point threat. 5) Picks. 6) Rim-rolling. Powell is good at the last two. He's rather pitiful at the first four. First double-double of the year? Are you friggin' kidding me?
"It’s not about stats, and it’s not about that final number on the box score. It’s not whatever 2k numbers you can get. It’s about how your team functions and if it’s winning because of a player.” - Erik Spoelstra
- Rebounds: Mavs are 4th in the league
- Rim protection: KP is fifth in the league in blocks but more importantly, rim protection isn't an issue when KP plays
- Post defense: I'll take my chances against any team who's game plan to beat the Mavs involves posting up a traditional center.
- Stretch the defense: KP is elite and Mavs spacing is among the best in the league
- Picks: Powell can set a pick
- Rim rolling: Powell is elite lob threat
The real problem with Dwight is that THJ is playing so well that he can no longer be in the perpetual dog house. Dwight got a minimal raise after being one of most consistent players the Mavs have had over his previous contract. That minimal raise wasn't going to change his NBA skill set. You still get a guy that cares, gives maximum effort, is a great teammate, is a community service leader and has an elite NBA skill that happens to make the team better when he's on the floor with Luka. He gives you flexibility at the 4/5 for a team that is sorely lacking in that area. I've been slightly down on him this year as his consistency has slipped but there are a lot of you that act like he's a bum on a max contract.
(01-13-2020, 11:59 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ] (01-12-2020, 10:47 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]1) Rebounds. 2) Rim protection. 3) Post defense. 4) Ability to stretch a defense with a three-point threat. 5) Picks. 6) Rim-rolling. Powell is good at the last two. He's rather pitiful at the first four. First double-double of the year? Are you friggin' kidding me?
"It’s not about stats, and it’s not about that final number on the box score. It’s not whatever 2k numbers you can get. It’s about how your team functions and if it’s winning because of a player.” - Erik Spoelstra
- Rebounds: Mavs are 4th in the league
- Rim protection: KP is fifth in the league in blocks but more importantly, rim protection isn't an issue when KP plays
- Post defense: I'll take my chances against any team who's game plan to beat the Mavs involves posting up a traditional center.
- Stretch the defense: KP is elite and Mavs spacing is among the best in the league
- Picks: Powell can set a pick
- Rim rolling: Powell is elite lob threat
Mavs are 4th in rebounds per game, but if you look in the advanced stats, we are 27th in Opponents Offensive Rebounds and 21th in Defensive Rebound %. 19th in block per game (I know there are a lot of altered shots with KP/Maxi/Wright) and we don't force turnovers. 28th in steals, 30th in Opponents Turnovers per game and 29th in Opponent Turnover %. Not saying he would vastly improve the team, but Drummond does cover about every box on defense (not sure about his post defense, but at least he is not bullied).
(01-13-2020, 11:58 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Seems like ATL doesn't even want to throw 1st rounder for Drummond
There are holes in your thinking.
If Detroit would neither get a young player or first round pick, why would they trade Drummond? If they are affraid he would walk next summer, than they absolutely don't need expiring cotnracts for him. My guess would be they agreed on the young player but didn't come together yet regarding the pick. Yet! But I guess, if Atlanta is ready to throw max contract at Drummond, they will not have a lot of competition to sign him in the summer. They could just waite.
Powell is absolutely worthless for Detroit other than salary match. All they need are expirings for salary matching, young players and picks. Wright is similar - might be used as salary match, but has no value for a rebuilding team.
Rose is probably worth a first rounder, based on his production and very low wage.