MavsBoard

I think most players that would actually help the Mavs are just outside of MLE range.  The biggest need is a strong defensive wing with a good 3-point shot. A lot of players can do one of both and the guys that can do both will get paid.
Top of the list for me would be Joe Harris (incredible shooting, less defense), Jerami Grant and Moe Harkless (more defense, less shooting). Bogdanovic and Hayward (PO) are even better but will probably get even more or just stay with their team.
More realistic scenario would be a veteran like Crowder, Bradley, Marvin Williams, the return of Wes Matthews?
Next we have younger players that disappointed on their previous teams. Josh Jackson, Derrick Jones Jr, Glenn Robinson III or Pat Connaughton.
Personally I will closely watch the Thunder in the coming weeks. Andrew Roberson cannot shoot but in 2017 and 2018 he probably was a top 3 defensive wing. If he is back to his former self he could really help the Mavs.

I also think that the Mavs need at least one more big. Ideally some kind of (maybe undersized) PF/C hybrid with good defense in the paint and on the perimeter. Bigger names that are probably getting more than the MLE include Tristan Thompson, Derrick Favors, Paul Millsap, Serge Ibaka and Marc Gasol. I think most teams will chase Woods and Harrell because of their age.
More likely options for the Mavs would be Mason Plumlee, Meyers Leonard, Jamychal Green or Aron Baynes.

Mavs obviously have more options with the #18 and #31. Personally I would probably try to use #18 + Jackson and/or Powell/Wright to trade for a wing and draft a backup big with #31.

Would be really happy if the Mavs could do something like...

Split MLE: Josh Jackson, Andrew Roberson (not sure if other teams are willing to give more than the minimum)
Draft: #31 Azubuike
Trade: Jackson + #18 for Royce O´Neale + future pick

Doncic / Wright / Brunson
THJ / Curry
O´Neale / Roberson / (Reaves 2-way)
DFS / Kleber / Jackson
Porzingis /  Boban / Azubuike / (Powell)

Take a look around the league and fill out the roster with vet min guys. Maybe bring back Lee and Kidd-Gilchrist. Bring back Yogi?
Or sign reclamations projects like Mudiay or Hezonja.

I think the coming offseason is more about smaller improvements. Adding minor pieces and some better fitting role players is a better option than a  gamble on big names with huge questionmarks.

Just noticed something.  Justin Jackson is almost exactly to the penny a trade match for Cedi Osman.  Osman is a Schwartz client and Luka likes him.  He's on a declining contract which pays $8mm next season.  His D is awful, but he could be a pretty good bench scorer for a good team and hit corner 3's when he's in with starters for a few moments.  I think he'd be much more valuable to the team than Jackson.  The question is whether he's #31 more valuable or #18 more valuable.  Another case of a guy who was OK in limited minutes when Cleveland was good, but is over his head when asked to do too much on a bad team.

Use the MLE on a starting PF (I'll keep using Grant as my example, but it could be someone else) and move DFS to the bench.  Bench is Brunson, Wright, Osman, DFS and Maxi.

(07-25-2020, 09:23 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]I don´t think there is a chance in hell THJ opts out, unless the Mavs make another rash unnecessary extension decision like Powell.

They've already said they want to extend THJ, so one way or another (opt-out and sign or opt-in and extend) I expect it to get done this offseason. 

And IMO Powell's deal was not rash. He earned it, and when you struggle to lure external FAs it's important to take care of your own. The same applies to THJ this year.

Assuming we won't trade anyone of our core, that leaves Jackson and Wright as the salary leaving, meaning we can only take back 19M in salary. Gordon would be my primary target, but we might not have the best assets to adquire him. Another option is a simple swap of Wright for Thad Young (maybe add #31?).

"According to executives from two other teams, Thad Young, not LaVine, is the player considered most readily available. That’s largely based on Young’s displeasure with his role and usage last season, his team-friendly deal that carries only a partial guarantee in 2021-22 and his dependability and professionalism."

Doncic (34) / Brunson (18)
THJ (28) / Curry (24)
DFS (28) / #18 or MLE (18)
Young (26) / Kleber (20)
KP (34) /Boban (10)

(07-25-2020, 11:11 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]I also think that the Mavs need at least one more big.

I don't think this is a plan at all. Perhaps low cost end of the bench guy, but don't expect him to see minutes. Outside of the three bigs in Orlando we have WCS and Powell.

(07-25-2020, 11:11 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Would be really happy if the Mavs could do something like...

While I like your ideas, I am affraid there would not be enough minutes to pass around and some guys will be unhappy. For example you have Jackson as number 3 behind DFS and Kleber at PF. No way he sees minutes this way.

(07-25-2020, 11:11 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Trade: Jackson + #18 for Royce O´Neale + future pick

I don't think this is realistic. It is difficult to get player like O'Neale and Utah is definitely making a step back with this trade, even without mentioning the future pick on their side. I would love O'Neale though

(07-25-2020, 11:47 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Cedi Osman

I have mentioned him several times. I am not really sure his defense is bad. He is a very high energy guy. He would fit on Mavs. I think he is definitely worth (at least) #31. His contract is very decent and he is definitely an upgrade over Jackson. 

(07-25-2020, 12:16 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]THJ

I love the way he was playing this season and he looks like a very good guy to have around. But, I don't think there is any hurry to resign him unless he is taking a serious paycut. Which I doubt he is. I think he can collect his money, have another good season and Mavs can extend him anytime. I would certainly not be comfortable signing him for his current money for another 3-4 seasons. If he would be willing to discuss up to 60 for 4 years (45 for 3), I would be interested.

(07-25-2020, 12:16 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-25-2020, 09:23 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]I don´t think there is a chance in hell THJ opts out, unless the Mavs make another rash unnecessary extension decision like Powell.

They've already said they want to extend THJ, so one way or another (opt-out and sign or opt-in and extend) I expect it to get done this offseason. 

And IMO Powell's deal was not rash. He earned it, and when you struggle to lure external FAs it's important to take care of your own. The same applies to THJ this year.

Powell's deal was premature and an overpay. We've seen countless rotation big-types sign for smallish deals over the last offseasons due to the league wide decrease in value of non shooting bigs. It wouldn't be nearly as bad if it weren't for the injury but the contract was far from a no-brainer at the time. Personally I was and remain a big opponent of it.

Also: you can't "take care" of everybody in a competitive, salary-cap based environment. Bad deals have negative teambuilding effects.

We gotta be careful from now on with our payroll. Seth, Kleber and DFS are assets, but Powell's contract offers negative value, Wright is kinda up in the air. We'll see what happens with THJr, he has been stellar but at the same time he's not exactly a 3D-guy. If locking us into an extension prevents the team from making a better move later on that might end up being regrettable.

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(07-25-2020, 11:47 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Just noticed something.  Justin Jackson is almost exactly to the penny a trade match for Cedi Osman.  Osman is a Schwartz client and Luka likes him.  He's on a declining contract which pays $8mm next season.  His D is awful, but he could be a pretty good bench scorer for a good team and hit corner 3's when he's in with starters for a few moments.  I think he'd be much more valuable to the team than Jackson.  The question is whether he's #31 more valuable or #18 more valuable.  Another case of a guy who was OK in limited minutes when Cleveland was good, but is over his head when asked to do too much on a bad team.

Use the MLE on a starting PF (I'll keep using Grant as my example, but it could be someone else) and move DFS to the bench.  Bench is Brunson, Wright, Osman, DFS and Maxi.

I'd be on board with Osman. BBIQ, has shot the nba three ball well, still relatively young and locked into a fair contract for multiple years. There's a lot to like here.

(07-25-2020, 12:49 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think this is realistic. It is difficult to get player like O'Neale and Utah is definitely making a step back with this trade, even without mentioning the future pick on their side. I would love O'Neale though

Utah is facing a tough situation. Gobert and Mitchell aren´t happy with each other. Overall the team is good but not a real contender. They don´t have any draft pick this year. I think a small rebuild around either Mitchell or Gobert is very likely. In this case they would probably want a pick this year.

(07-25-2020, 12:49 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]While I like your ideas, I am affraid there would not be enough minutes to pass around and some guys will be unhappy. For example you have Jackson as number 3 behind DFS and Kleber at PF. No way he sees minutes this way.

The idea was more or less based on the hope that one of the mentioned guys (Roberson, Jackson) develops a jumpshot and replaces DFS in the starting five. But I get your point. Neither is a real starter but they probably deserve at least 20 minutes. We already had a similar situation this year with Delon Wright complaining about his role. On the other hand they are all versatile enough to play any position from 2-4 (at least on defense).
More depth helps but a 3rd star or even a proven starter would obviously be even better. I just don´t like the available options this summer.

(07-24-2020, 10:32 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/128...0180145153

Pass on LaVine. I don't think we need another expensive offense-first player who isn't a difference maker.

If we're going for a big trade then I'm all in favor of CP3. He has proven that he can be highly efficient in a nr 2 guy-role and brings the obvious pros (elite BBIQ, super clutch, midrange game, three ball, iso-ability, elite game management, still very good defense, can draw fouls, etc.)

I don't see another way for us to bring an All nba-caliber to this team anytime soon. He'd be a massive boost for our playoff aspirations over the next 2 years and you could still reload once his salary comes off the books.

(07-25-2020, 01:08 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Utah is facing a tough situation.

O'Neale is for Utah what Kleber or DFS are for us. Would you trade either of them for a mid FRP? Guys like Bey, Vassel are just a possibility to develop to a level where O'Neale already is. And they might be gone by #18. 


I think Utah was unlucky with just one move - Conley. They just don't know how to make it work - at least not until now. But they were in a situation Dallas will be next two years. Good team but not good enough and you have to take risks for that final push. Unfortunately there is always more losers than winners as each year at least 5 teams try to make that final move and there is only one champion.

(07-25-2020, 12:39 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Assuming we won't trade anyone of our core, that leaves Jackson and Wright as the salary leaving, meaning we can only take back 19M in salary. Gordon would be my primary target, but we might not have the best assets to adquire him. Another option is a simple swap of Wright for Thad Young (maybe add #31?).

"According to executives from two other teams, Thad Young, not LaVine, is the player considered most readily available. That’s largely based on Young’s displeasure with his role and usage last season, his team-friendly deal that carries only a partial guarantee in 2021-22 and his dependability and professionalism."

Doncic (34) / Brunson (18)
THJ (28) / Curry (24)
DFS (28) / #18 or MLE (18)
Young (26) / Kleber (20)
KP (34) /Boban (10)

I think Gordon is within reach but I'm lukewarm on him at best. The good thing is that he'd play PF here along a bunch of floor spacers which should be a drastic difference to what he's used to in ORL and help him offensively. Defensively he'd be a great help, I have no doubt about that.

But I worry that he might just be what he is at this point. Not sure I'd be willing to move #18 for him.

(07-25-2020, 01:22 PM)JamesConway Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure I'd be willing to move #18 for him.

Wow. What do you guys expect to get at #18? In my opinion, it is a success if we get a solid rotation piece with it. Gordon might not be a star, but he is certainly much more than that.

These are draft picks #15-#20
2018: Troy Brown, Z.Smith, DiVincenzo, Lonnie Walker, Huerter, Okogie. Only one solid rotation piece in 2020 (DiVincenzo)
2017: our Jackson, Patton, DJ Wilson, Leaf, Collins, Giles. 5 more or less busts and one star player
2016: J.Hernangomez, Yabusele, Baldwin, Elenson, Beasley, LeVert. 3 busts, 1 who might be a rotation guy and 2 starters
2015: Oubre, Rozier, Vaughn, Dekker, Grant, our Wright. 2 solid starters, 3 busts, 1 rotation
2014: Payne, Nurkic, Young, Ennis, Harris, Caboclo. 4 busts, 2 solid starters
2013: Gianis, Nogueira, Schroeder, Larkin, Karasev, Snell. 3 busts, 1 rotation, 1 solid starter, 1 superstar.

More than 50 % chance our pick will be a bust.

Gordon would be an amazing fit as our 3rd guy. His defensively versatility would be a great fit here. He is still somehow only 24 years old and has a great contract. I would gladly send #18, GSW, Jackson + Wright if Orlando would take that deal.

On offense Rick would maximize Gordon's abilities and he would not have to carry much of a load. In Rick's system Gordon would be the 4 next to KP and DFS would slide down to the 3. Mavs would be able to play a smallish lineup in some respects but positionally their size would be actually pretty good.

Luka - very big PG
Hardaway - Prototypical size for what you want at SG
DFS/Gordon - both interchangeably SF/PF. It's hard to distinguish who would be what bc they are both so versatile. The important thing here is that Gordon is your best defender who will take the toughest matchup. DFS then takes the next best offensive player which is a much better fit for him.
KP - Tall but doesn't play big and yet is a great shot blocker and great team defender. With this lineup your rotations would look really good outside of Luka who probably won't ever be more than average but hey he's tall and will get incrementally better since he does "try."

Gordon is prob #1 on my list bc of age, contract, fit.

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https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/20...ron-gordon

It's difficult to gauge Gordon's value but for sure it's lower than we believe it will be under Rick bc he has not reached his potential. His outside shot is not good but would get better and his shooting overall is not great. Again Mavs need his athleticism and defense more than they need more shooting which they have in spades.

I also love Gordon.  He'd be a terrific 4 in this lineup, and having Luka serve him up assists could really ignite him offensively. 

My theoretical trade is pretty simple: Wright/Lee/18 for Gordon. If they also want Jackson that's fine. I bet Dallas might even include 31 if pushed, or trade down for multiple picks to toss an extra 2nd rounder to Orlando while keeping one for themselves. 

Orlando needs ball-handlers while Dallas needs wings. Both Wright and Gordon are good players who are blocked positionally on their current team but could help the other team quite a bit. The time left on each contract is the same, and I find it an interesting (if unrelated) coincidence that they both have declining-value deals. But Wright makes quite a bit less, so Lee can be signed & traded for the minimum amount required to make the deal legal and Orlando can save money in the deal. Normally this type of draft-night trade including a S&T isn't practical timing-wise, but since the draft and FA are only days apart this year it could be easy to work out.

(And as an aside, I'd still be interested in taking Bamba off their hands if Orlando feels like moving a different direction. He'd be a fun defensive backup to KP at center.)

(07-25-2020, 03:28 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]I also love Gordon.  He'd be a terrific 4 in this lineup, and having Luka serve him up assists could really ignite him offensively. 

My theoretical trade is pretty simple: Wright/Lee/18 for Gordon. If they also want Jackson that's fine. I bet Dallas might even include 31 if pushed, or trade down for multiple picks to toss an extra 2nd rounder to Orlando while keeping one for themselves. 

Orlando needs ball-handlers while Dallas needs wings. Both Wright and Gordon are good players who are blocked positionally on their current team but could help the other team quite a bit. The time left on each contract is the same, and I find it an interesting (if unrelated) coincidence that they both have declining-value deals. But Wright makes quite a bit less, so Lee can be signed & traded for the minimum amount required to make the deal legal and Orlando can save money in the deal. Normally this type of draft-night trade including a S&T isn't practical timing-wise, but since the draft and FA are only days apart this year it could be easy to work out.

(And as an aside, I'd still be interested in taking Bamba off their hands if Orlando feels like moving a different direction. He'd be a fun defensive backup to KP at center.)

I'd just do Wright and Jackson (and picks) instead of Wright and Lee (and picks).  Both deals have to wait for the calendar to turn, but at least you don't run the risk of Lee holding up the deal because of the required S&T.  As I'm sure you know, the version that includes Jackson in the current season at the draft is $2.1mm short.  You need Gordon's salary to drop and Jackson's to increase (as they do in the new season) to make that version work.

I find it interesting that people on this board would object to trading for Lavine but would rather trade for Grandpa Paul or Cedi Osman. If I brought up trading for Bradley Beal (who the Mavs don't have the assest to trade for) no one would object. While Lavine isn't as good as Beal, there isn't that much that separates them as players. One player just happens to be much cheaper to acquire in a trade, based off perception than the other.

Moreover I look at Lavine as someone who could play the Jason Terry role if he for some reason doesn't fit in with Luka and KP in the starting lineup. Also the Mavs at this stage in their growth should not be worried about fit so much as just acquiring the most talent possible and if doesn't work out with that talent can easily be flipped for a better fitting piece or assest. The Mavs at one point traded for Antwan Jamison, Antwan Walker on team with Nash, Finely, Nowitzki. Neither of those players ended up on the team for long. This is the same approach I wanted the Mavs to make in acquiring Dlo last offseason (which people objected too as well). The warriors did this exact same thing and acquired a first round pick. It sure would be nice to have the Twolves first round pick as an asset to build out this roster.

(07-25-2020, 03:57 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I'd just do Wright and Jackson (and picks)

I can't believe Orlando would do this kind of deal. They will not be just dumping Gordon unless they catch some Knicks virus and say - here is our star player just give us what you can. Wright is a bad fit next to Fultz as they need a much more offensively polished PG to complement him. Plus his wage is high for a back-up point guard. Both Augustin and MCW would be cheaper for Orlando and arguably bring more to the table for them. Unless Wright really steps up in the remainder of the season, it is difficult to present his contract as a positive. 

The only way I could see them consider Dallas would be if they really like THJ. Perhaps because Fournier leaves them. I could see Dragic, Harris (if he really likes Dallas), Justin Holiday or fliers on Valentine or Connaughton as possible MLE replacements for THJ.

(07-25-2020, 04:37 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-25-2020, 03:57 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I'd just do Wright and Jackson (and picks)

I can't believe Orlando would do this kind of deal. They will not be just dumping Gordon unless they catch some Knicks virus and say - here is our star player just give us what you can. Wright is a bad fit next to Fultz as they need a much more offensively polished PG to complement him. Plus his wage is high for a back-up point guard. Both Augustin and MCW would be cheaper for Orlando and arguably bring more to the table for them. Unless Wright really steps up in the remainder of the season, it is difficult to present his contract as a positive. 

The only way I could see them consider Dallas would be if they really like THJ. Perhaps because Fournier leaves them. I could see Dragic, Harris (if he really likes Dallas), Justin Holiday or fliers on Valentine or Connaughton as possible MLE replacements for THJ.

I would do THJ for Gordon since you could start Curry at the other guard spot. I like THJ a lot but I worry about giving him a big contract extension.  I'd rather get 2 years of Gordon at reasonable money. Orlando could use THJs shooting.

Sending THJ away for Gordon seems too risky. THJ works so amazingly well with Luka while Gordon's fit here has to be projected.

I've been a proponent of bringing Gordon here, but I have two questions to ponder. 1. KP's game seemed to have picked up quite a bit when he didn't have to play with another roll man. Does that make Gordon more of a fit risk here? 2. Should we have Gordon or Powell, rather than both? Seems like he'd be similar to Powell offensively here.

(07-25-2020, 10:54 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Sending THJ away for Gordon seems too risky. THJ works so amazingly well with Luka while Gordon's fit here has to be projected.

I've been a proponent of bringing Gordon  here, but I have two questions to ponder. 1. KP's game seemed to have picked up quite a bit when he didn't have to play with another roll man. Does that make Gordon more of a fit risk here? 2. Should we have Gordon or Powell, rather than both? Seems like he'd be similar to Powell offensively here.

Maybe THJ is just good, cause he plays with Luka.

3pt shooting percentages

THJ (career-high by 4.4%)
Curry (career-high by 0.3%, on +0.5 in attempts, not that easy when your career-high is 45.0%)
DFS (career-high by 6.3%)
Kleber (career-high by 2.3%)
Brunson (career-high by 1.0%)
Wright (career-high tied, from his rookie season, when he took 13 threes total)

Take a Aaaron Gordon or Kris Dunn (who has shown shooting improvements during his NBA career) and say they improve on their career-best 3pt shooting season by at least 2%. Suddenly you actually have D and 3 guys (+37% from three).

Fair point on Porzingis at C, though I think Gordon is a much more natural PF than Powell. For example we are talking 29.3% career on 0.9 attempts vs. 31.8% on 3.4 attempts. Plus Gordon would be a prime candidate to improve his percentage significantly, when you consider, who where the PGs in Orlando the last few years and how the defensive attention would shift away from him.

Am I the only one thinking that Gordon is not a good defender? Physical tools are one thing but it seems like they do not translate to on court impact.
The boxscore numbers are not impressive. He isn´t a shot blocker and never averaged more than 1.0 stls. His on/off numbers are terrible. The Magic are a bad defensive team and Gordon has the worst individual defensive on court rating. Orlando is 6.7 pts better on defense when he is on the bench. Raw on/off is obviously noisy but it shows why Gordon is available. The Magic have a way better PF in Isaac. Up until his injury he was the defensive anchor without being any worse on offense.

Gordons advanced stats are all over the place:
DRPM looks really good at 2.26 but with ESPN changing the formula every month I do not trust it.
Boxscore based DBPM is at 0.1
D-PIPM is at -0.36.
D-Raptor is at -1.4. Worst among all Magic players.

I am also not really sure how he would fit in the Mavs offense. Outside of some flashes as a pick and roll finisher he hasn´t shown any useful skills. Mediocre iso scorer and bad shooter. I am especially concerned by his 2-point percentage. Over 20% of his shots are from midrange and he is shooting 36% on them. Once he gets to the rim he can finish. Problem is that he rarely is in position.