(05-02-2020, 01:27 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2020, 12:29 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]If they can sign those players mentioned for the RLE, why would they pay twice as much for Wright? They can sign those guys to one year deals, too.
I guess I don't need to repeat my arguments behind the Oubre trade, as I have already put them.
(05-02-2020, 12:29 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Well then their beat writer is not very bright. Jerome is a rookie PG and made his NBA debut on Dec. 3rd.
Wow!
1. Your statement has nothing to do with a claim, that he is not capable of filling the 3rd guard role. At least not immediately. There were plenty of games since December.
2. Their beat writer has a name and a surname, you are Mavs2019. And John Hollinger, who was debating with him, is extremely respectable NBA name. Not that I am saying they are always right, but I think there are a lot of facts supporting their claim. Your only claim is that Jerome is a rookie PG
1. What I do know though is that 30 games are rarely enough time to judge a rookie´s NBA ability, otherwise 6/2 shooting 35/20/80 Dirk Nowitzki´s NBA career would have been relatively short.
They are not trading Saric for Delon Wright. That´s just homer talk.
2. That´s funny. Not that I know his name and surname, but I bet his Twitter account is badass.
(05-02-2020, 02:17 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]1. What I do know though is that 30 games are rarely enough time to judge a rookie´s NBA ability, otherwise 6/2 shooting 35/20/80 Dirk Nowitzki´s NBA career would have been relatively short.
They are not trading Saric for Delon Wright. That´s just homer talk.
2. That´s funny. Not that I know his name and surname, but I bet his Twitter account is badass.
Now you are just making stuff up. It is a fact Phoenix were a disaster when Rubio didn't play. You can write about unproven rookies as much as you like, it will not change facts. Perhaps Jerome will eventually develop, but he is not there yet. It's like proposing something like Dallas should trade Wright and Brunson, because we have Yudai Baba stashed in G-league and he will develop into capable back up guard.
No one was proposing Wright for Saric trade.
2. If you don't know someone, it doesn't mean he is a nobody. More likely it means you don't really know what you are talking about. You still haven't provided a single argument (other than the fact that Suns have some rookie guards) against their claims.
(05-02-2020, 02:29 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2020, 02:17 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]1. What I do know though is that 30 games are rarely enough time to judge a rookie´s NBA ability, otherwise 6/2 shooting 35/20/80 Dirk Nowitzki´s NBA career would have been relatively short.
They are not trading Saric for Delon Wright. That´s just homer talk.
2. That´s funny. Not that I know his name and surname, but I bet his Twitter account is badass.
Now you are just making stuff up. It is a fact Phoenix were a disaster when Rubio didn't play. You can write about unproven rookies as much as you like, it will not change facts. Perhaps Jerome will eventually develop, but he is not there yet. It's like proposing something like Dallas should trade Wright and Brunson, because we have Yudai Baba stashed in G-league and he will develop into capable back up guard.
No one was proposing Wright for Saric trade.
2. If you don't know someone, it doesn't mean he is a nobody. More likely it means you don't really know what you are talking about. You still haven't provided a single argument (other than the fact that Suns have some rookie guards) against their claims.
Well then you proposed a three-way trade for Oubre. Even worse. Why would the Suns do that?
Kelly Oubre is still under contract till 2021. He´s unlikely to get an outrageous contract offer during a recession (declining cap figures), competing in the strongest FA class in years. The Suns have plenty of time to negotiate an extension beforehand and a lot of capspace themselves.
Harris is better than Wright/Jackson, so if the Suns need a PG/SG, they can just take Harris, find a cheap back-up like Augustin and then they have a draft coming up, where 7 of the top 13 (tankathon) prospects are PG/SG.
So yes I do think their priority will be to find leadership and a starter/back-up at PF/C, not trying to downgrade a starting position for two back-ups, but keep trying to trade back-ups on bad contracts for starters on good contracts. That´s usually how that works.
(05-02-2020, 04:40 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]The Suns have plenty of time to negotiate an extension beforehand and a lot of capspace themselves.
Oubre is not extension eligible. Carry on.
(05-02-2020, 04:55 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2020, 04:40 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]The Suns have plenty of time to negotiate an extension beforehand and a lot of capspace themselves.
Oubre is not extension eligible. Carry on.
They can still come to an verbal agreement. That´s what happens every day in the NBA. That´s how we reach decisions 30 seconds into the official free agency window. I don´t see a reason why Oubre would want to leave or why the Suns would want him to leave. They have no cap pressure either.
You want to get rid of Wright, you look for a bad contract in the $15-24M range that is expiring in 2021. That way you can package Wright´s deal with Boban and the expiring contract of Jackson. Saves the other team a few millions next year. It´s not that easy. Few canidates are Batum, Dieng, Exum, J. Johnson, and Portis.
Another interesting name is DeRozan. Spurs miss the play-offs. Pop retires. DeRozan is an expiring 32 year old in 2021. Wonder how much the Spurs can demand for him. Also how much he´d want for his last big contract extension. Would he be willling to sacrifice some money to play for a legit contender for the next four years? When DeRozan is your 3rd best player you are in very good shape, when he could be your 4th best player you are a legit title contender.
(05-02-2020, 05:41 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]They can still come to an verbal agreement.
They can, for sure. But you know what, it is also possible they can't. Same way as they were not able to agree on more than a teo year deal. No one will pay kings ransom for someone who is risk if he will stay or not.
(05-02-2020, 05:41 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]I don´t see a reason why Oubre would want to leave
Plenty of possibilities, for example: Suns offer him "just" 20 per, he wants to play for a winning team. He is BFF with someone at another team,...
(05-02-2020, 05:41 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]You want to get rid of Wright, you look for a bad contract in the $15-24M range that is expiring in 2021.
Totally don't agree. While he isn't an excellent fit in Dallas, he is still a capable back up. He wasn't bad!
(05-02-2020, 05:41 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Another interesting name is DeRozan.
So yeah. Oubre is worth a fortune in your eyes yet DeRozan would be let go for a salary dump. Both cases are totally the same. btw: DeRozan is a very bad fit for Mavs.
My idea of realistic off season moves for the Mavericks is this:
1. Trade Jalen Brunson, JJax, plus the2020 Warriors' 2nd round pick (or Mavericks' 2020 1st around pick) for Mikal Bridges;
2. Sign Jae Crowder for MLE;
3. Try to keep WCS; and
4. Sign Vet minimum players to fill out roster spots;
JB is not far behind Bridges talentwise. Bridges is a versatile defender that can shoot the three, exactly what the Mavs need, and lines up with young core agewise.
Trading JB will solve logjam at back up guard. Free up minutes for Delon Wright. DW is versatile enough to play positions 1 to 3, a better defender than JB, and can improve offensively and defensively next year.
JJB can be resigned to be third string guard and act as mentor.
JB can be third guard for Suns who can play on ball or off ball with either Booker or Rubio. I think Givinh more. minutes to JB can unlock his potential. I believe he is underrated as a player.
Oubre is their stsrting SF, they can fill back minutes with JJaX or other young wings.
I think they will have to resign Saric. They are pretty thin at the 4. JJax can also play the back up 4 for them. It os still possible for JJax to become a setviceable rotational player.
2nd round pick or 1st round pick sweetens the deal. They can probably find a good young player for them.
Jae Crowder is a former Maverick who is a good versatile defender who can hustle, rebound, shoot the three. He can play either forward spots.
A forward rotation of KP, Maxi, Dodo, Bridges, Crowder, can be very good defensively. KP and Maxi will have to play the 5 fo stretches. This will give Mavs good perimeter defense and rim protection for all 48 minutes of the game.
Almost all players can shoot the three which is good for Mavs offense. This will free the lane for Luka. And Luka driving will open up three-point shooters.
I think this is viable because Jae Crowder is a free agent and will not tooexpensive. It is just a matter of offering him enough money within the MLE.
I think the Mavs can try to pry Bridges from them. I think he has underperformed but still good defensively and has potential. But Suns have needs and they already Oubre at the 3. JB is a talented, smart player, a winner, and has surpassed immediate expectations. That can be attractive for any team. Plus Mavs can offer 2nd round pick or even the first round. I think the Mavs should gun to build a winning team right nowand not develop players. Bridges can contribute immediately but is still an asset.
(05-02-2020, 11:44 PM)Lui41 Wrote: [ -> ]Mikal Bridges
He is a very good player, but he is just not there yet to be a starter for a contender. I guess his future in Phoenix depends a lot on what they plan to do with Oubre. I would do this trade, I think it is a good price for us. I am not sure if it would be good enough for Phoenix.
(05-03-2020, 03:09 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2020, 11:44 PM)Lui41 Wrote: [ -> ]Mikal Bridges
He is a very good player, but he is just not there yet to be a starter for a contender. I guess his future in Phoenix depends a lot on what they plan to do with Oubre. I would do this trade, I think it is a good price for us. I am not sure if it would be good enough for Phoenix.
I envision him as the back SF with the Mavs with the potential to start some games. Dodo will still start as he has real good chemistry with Luka.
Bridges skillset is like Dodo's with even better defense. I think he fits what the Mavs need in the immediate future and even beyond. His age lines up with Luka and KP. He can be part of the future or treated as an asset.
I think there is a fair amount of chance for the Suns to agree with this.
I'll start by saying I'm a big Bridges fan. But, we can forget about that one ever happening.
Let's review why Hollinger (not anyone on this board, but former NBA executive John Hollinger) thought Oubre might be available in a trade to Dallas for Wright, #31 and the Jackson salary filler. Note that this was on a Phoenix site, not a Dallas site and no one has objected in the comments section of the article. Here is what Hollinger said:
"That's an interesting proposal. Would need another small contract to make the $$ work (Justin Jackson, let's say). Mavs have Golden State's 2nd rd pick (likely 31) to even out the deal. Wright would be a great fit as combo guard off bench."
Here is the thinking as to why moving Oubre is thought to be a good idea:
1. There is a logjam at SF on the Suns roster. Bridges and Johnson are being forced to get minutes at PF to get on the floor.
2. Phoenix can control Bridges and Johnson at a reasonable cost while building around Booker and Ayton. Phoenix doesn't need to spend $15-$20 million on Oubre to fill this spot. It is already filled with people already on the team.
3. Phoenix can not control Oubre and there is a good chance he walks for free in a year. He can't be extended (as was wrongly stated here) and they have no matching rights to make him stay. So, the theory is it is better to get something for him now instead of waiting and seeing him walk for nothing.
4. Phoenix has a large hole at PF and 3rd guard (and no, there isn't a young "lottery" guard waiting in the wings for this spot as was incorrectly stated in this thread). There is no good reason to spend big on Oubre when Bridges is arguably better and the money can be spent to fill a greater need.
5. Phoenix has the cap room to fill one of those holes and the trade of Oubre to fill another.
If you read any of the Phoenix rumors, there are all sorts of other Oubre trade ideas out there...including Aaron Gordon. It is reasonable to say such and such deal is better than Wright/31/JJ. But, I've seen nothing to refute Hollinger's position that such a package isn't reasonable. It fills one of their holes with a MLE type cost (what you would expect to pay for a good third guard), It relieves a log-jam at a position without eating into 2020 space. It allows them to have space in either 2020 or 2021 to fill the huge hole at PF. It gives them a pick that many consider to be more valuable than a late first (especially to a cheap owner like Sarver).
I think the question for Phoenix isn't whether they would do this. I think it is whether they can find something better. Recall that the team that gets Oubre also doesn't have any matching rights...just EB. It is hard to see superior assets coming to Phoenix unless those assets are in the form of a fairly high dollar player that the other team wants to be rid of.
We´ll just have to disagree on Oubre.
Would you trade a 24 year old Maverick, that is 3rd in PPG, 2nd in RPG, 2nd in BPG, 3rd in SPG and 3rd in 3pt percentage (on the team) at all? Would you look to trade him for two bench veterans.
Maybe Oubre becomes a FA target in 2021. If we strike out on the max free agent, two $15M players could be a nice fit under the cap. We know the money has to be spend before the Doncic extension kicks in.
Why not go after Danilo Gallinari?
(05-03-2020, 02:20 PM)ThunderMav Wrote: [ -> ]Why not go after Danilo Gallinari?
Why do you want to get rid of him so badly? You allergic to winning?
I wonder whether Gallinari will regret passing up that trade&extend offer (whichever team it was).
Igoudala sure made out like a bandit. Without the trade, he´d be out of basketball for over a year and a borderline minimum player right now.
(05-03-2020, 02:20 PM)ThunderMav Wrote: [ -> ]Why not go after Danilo Gallinari?
He would be an excellent offensive fit. Offense would be an absolute dynamite. On defense we may just as well stop bothering and put Seth in the starting line-up for DFS
Other than that, it looked like Mavs were coming to him with a similar deal as Miami at TDL and didn't want to commit long term. Plus, with Lee gone, we don't really have a contract to match sign and trade. Unless OKC really wants another PG (Wright) and semi injured Powell. I am not giving up Seth, Maxi, DFS or THJ for Gallo.
(05-03-2020, 02:14 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Would you trade a 24 year old Maverick, that is 3rd in PPG, 2nd in RPG, 2nd in BPG, 3rd in SPG and 3rd in 3pt percentage (on the team) at all? Would you look to trade him for two bench veterans.
Let's put THJ instead of Oubre and assume we want him to stay, let 2021 cap space go to hell. I am absolutely trading him if he doesn't want to commit long term for acceptable money. If two bench guys and a #31 pick are best I can get, I am trading him for that. Better than nothing
RealGM forum is sporting an idea of Curry, Brunson and both 2020 picks for Richardson. It certainly looks like a lot, but Richardson is basically exactly what we need. I would still prefer to keep at least one pick or eat Horford contract. However, even with that price, our top 8 guys for paly-off rotation would be awesome and all still in their twenties: Luka, THJ, Richardson, DFS, KP, Maxi, Wright and Powell. DFS and Maxi rotate as 5th starter. Wright would be given sole command of bench mob. We could have Reaves, Jackson and Bobi as bench guys, which means we would need to fill a back up guard/SF spot, 3rd PG and possibly another back up SF/PF guy. 3rd PG is easy - Barea or vet min veteran. Players like Jeff Green or Carroll might be available for vet min for the SF/PF spot. Trier or Valentine might be available at vet min for the SG/SF bench scoring spark role. Even Belineli might be interesting at vet min. Or if we bring Lee back. Another interesting vet min option could be Matthews. Or we can try and split MLE over two guys: Holiday and Connaughton for example. The latter doesn't have nice offensive stats, but he brings huge energy.
Luka, Wright, vet min
THJ, Holiday, Reaves
Richardson, Connaughton, Jackson
DFS, Maxi, Green
KP, Powell, Bobi
(05-03-2020, 04:31 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]RealGM forum is sporting an idea of Curry, Brunson and both 2020 picks for Richardson. It certainly looks like a lot, but Richardson is basically exactly what we need. I would still prefer to keep at least one pick or eat Horford contract. However, even with that price, our top 8 guys for paly-off rotation would be awesome and all still in their twenties: Luka, THJ, Richardson, DFS, KP, Maxi, Wright and Powell. DFS and Maxi rotate as 5th starter. Wright would be given sole command of bench mob. We could have Reaves, Jackson and Bobi as bench guys, which means we would need to fill a back up guard/SF spot, 3rd PG and possibly another back up SF/PF guy. 3rd PG is easy - Barea or vet min veteran. Players like Jeff Green or Carroll might be available for vet min for the SF/PF spot. Trier or Valentine might be available at vet min for the SG/SF bench scoring spark role. Even Belineli might be interesting at vet min. Or if we bring Lee back. Another interesting vet min option could be Matthews. Or we can try and split MLE over two guys: Holiday and Connaughton for example. The latter doesn't have nice offensive stats, but he brings huge energy.
Luka, Wright, vet min
THJ, Holiday, Reaves
Richardson, Connaughton, Jackson
DFS, Maxi, Green
KP, Powell, Bobi
I'd never trade Curry for another role player. His shooting is invaluable. Richardson is what we need, but if getting him means giving up our most consistent and best 3pt shooter seems like a 1 step forward 3 steps back kinda move.
(05-03-2020, 04:31 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Luka, Wright, vet min
THJ, Holiday, Reaves
Richardson, Connaughton, Jackson
DFS, Maxi, Green
KP, Powell, Bobi
Same answer I gave there:
To me it's a no. I like the guy and the fit, but hate the salary situation. Our bench would instantly become very bad offensively. We will empty every asset we have to get 1-year of this guy? Rather keep stacking assets to spend on a more controled contract, or an opportunity to get a great player. Just wait for his FA in 2021 since PHI don't have money to pay him.
Trade Delon + Jackson + 2nd for an expiring like Ariza/Gay/Green/Oubre/T. Young that can defend the wing/forward, spend the MLE on a young guy with upside, draft BPA at 18 and call it a day.
(05-03-2020, 04:45 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]We will empty every asset we have to get 1-year of this guy?
Signing an extension would be a condition. Or we would at least have to be certain, he wants to stay (meaning we are prepared to pay him up to 20 per).
(05-03-2020, 04:45 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Just wait for his FA in 2021 since PHI don't have money to pay him.
Which is exactly why they will trade him before his FA. He is not a great fit there as long as the team is constructed as it is. Of, course, if they bring CP3 for Horford, the situation changes immediately and a lot of things would look very right.
(05-03-2020, 04:45 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Trade Delon + Jackson + 2nd for an expiring like Ariza/Gay/Green/Oubre/T. Young that can defend the wing/forward, spend the MLE on a young guy with upside, draft BPA at 18 and call it a day.
I am pretty certain offseason will be boring for us
However, I am certainly not paying the #31 for Ariza or Gay. Ariza will be most likely cut anyway, as his contract isn't fully guaranteed. If Lakers are moving Green, they are moving him for something very good (together with Kuzma plus whatever assets they have left). Otherwise he will stay where he is. Oubre or Young I am ok. Wright is not that bad, just Dallas situation with Brunson and Curry is not great for him. Plus he will be expiring next summer and much easier to move (if needed). I still think Wright straight up for Snell or even Aminu (plus 2nd rounder or two) is a realistic least ambitious trade for better fit. Jackson can be salary filler if needed or we try to get a second rounder for him. If not possible, he can stay as a third wing. He is expiring anyway.
(05-03-2020, 04:45 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Our bench would instantly become very bad offensively.
Main argument is, we are building for the play-offs. And as I said, top 8 guys rotation, which is what you need for play-offs, would be absolutely awesome. Plus we have the MLE. Vet min guys and MLE should be enough to fill bench good enough to take us to survive regular season comfotably.
(05-03-2020, 05:07 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ][quote pid='30366' dateline='1588542314']
Trade Delon + Jackson + 2nd for an expiring like Ariza/Gay/Green/Oubre/T. Young that can defend the wing/forward, spend the MLE on a young guy with upside, draft BPA at 18 and call it a day.
I am pretty certain offseason will be boring for us
However, I am certainly not paying the #31 for Ariza or Gay. Ariza will be most likely cut anyway, as his contract isn't fully guaranteed. If Lakers are moving Green, they are moving him for something very good (together with Kuzma plus whatever assets they have left).
[/quote]
I put the 31st pick in there just because of the Oubre discussion.
(05-03-2020, 02:32 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2020, 02:20 PM)ThunderMav Wrote: [ -> ]Why not go after Danilo Gallinari?
He would be an excellent offensive fit. Offense would be an absolute dynamite. On defense we may just as well stop bothering and put Seth in the starting line-up for DFS
Other than that, it looked like Mavs were coming to him with a similar deal as Miami at TDL and didn't want to commit long term. Plus, with Lee gone, we don't really have a contract to match sign and trade. Unless OKC really wants another PG (Wright) and semi injured Powell. I am not giving up Seth, Maxi, DFS or THJ for Gallo.
(05-03-2020, 02:14 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Would you trade a 24 year old Maverick, that is 3rd in PPG, 2nd in RPG, 2nd in BPG, 3rd in SPG and 3rd in 3pt percentage (on the team) at all? Would you look to trade him for two bench veterans.
Let's put THJ instead of Oubre and assume we want him to stay, let 2021 cap space go to hell. I am absolutely trading him if he doesn't want to commit long term for acceptable money. If two bench guys and a #31 pick are best I can get, I am trading him for that. Better than nothing
I think his contract is up after this year? So in that regard no trade needed. I’d love to keep him and too bad the season came to a halt.