(11-19-2019, 08:04 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2019, 06:23 AM)Magickian Wrote: [ -> ]CP3 is absolutely our best chance to make a real move within the next two years, AND it does NOT hinder our chances to make more moves within the next two years, AND we could still move CP3 in two years with the worst-case scenario and reset for Luka's big payday
This sums it all up. I think there are very strong arguments to trade for CP3.
I'm in on CP3. Cap space is highly overrated and we've yet to attract a big time free agent. We've always built through trades. No player is untradeable as last off season showed.
I'm waiting on the TDL to see if any good players get offered up by a team who is not in the playoff hunt...
(11-19-2019, 10:00 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]I'm waiting on the TDL to see if any good players get offered up by a team who is not in the playoff hunt...
I think the trade deadline will be the best opportunity to get value for Lee and maybe use our trade exception. I'm not sure THJ can be traded (without including a 1st) other than for CP3, but I'd be glad to be wrong on that.
Not sure CP3 is our answer. We have good players on the guards position. If we are trading THJ, the best outcome would be to get a starter wing (very hard to find). If CP3 comes, Jackson could very well get the THJ minutes, but Brunson would lose a lot of value by not getting playing time at all.
Guards: Doncic, CP3, Curry, Wright (Brunson out).
Wings: DFS, Jackson.
Bigs: KP, Kleber, Powell, Marjanovic.
For this TDL, Gallinari (OKC) or OPJ (CHI) would be my targets to upgrade the roster.
(11-19-2019, 10:34 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]For this TDL, Gallinari (OKC) and OPJ (CHI) would be my targets to upgrade the roster.
If we could pull this off, it would be amazing! Second or even third round here we come!
CP3 doesn't put us over the top imho. Would I prefer him over THJ? Of course but it's putting a band aid on a bullet wound.
Believe it or not, CP3's contract is actually worse than THJ's. He is averaging less than 60 games in the regular season the last 3 seasons. He is getting older, he will only get worse. I don't think you can realistically count on him in the playoffs, where it really matters.
The missing piece(s) on this team is really an elite 3/D wing and/or 4-man like a Covington, Gordon, etc. Don't believe we have the assets for those and think we just need to stand pat until 2021 free agency.
Not really a fan of any all in trade for vets like CP3 or Gallinari. I am not thinking about this year but the opening championship window in 3 years. Both mentioned guys are injury-prone. CP3 is declining.
Would rather look at the options for minor win now moves including Lee and 2nd round picks this season. I think the Mavs could have a really good package for a solid 2nd/3rd option next summer. Expiring THJ combined with our own 1st and GS early 2nd.
Get a guy like Crowder in exchange for Lee and 2nds and give him THJs minutes for the rest of the season. Get rid of THJ in the summer.
And most important....give up on any 2021 free agency pipe dream. I might lose it if the Mavs punt on a great trade opportunity to improve the roster and go with plan powder again. Giannis will sign a super max extention with the Bucks and if he wants to leave he will demand a trade afterwards.
To me, trading for Paul is like trading for Rondo. Not every trade opportunity is a good fit. We can do better.
If you want to talk Thunder players, I'd much rather have Adams or Gallinari.
No to CP3. The Offense is humming right now. The ball is in the hands of who it should be. I agree with the Rondo comps.
I dont really see an impactful trade until draft night. Like dirkfan said, once we make that pick, we can package that pick + expiring THJ + someone like Brunson or Wright or DFS for a 3rd option.
I don't see the Mavs bowing out of 2021 cap space. So there is not much incentive for other teams to take THJ if they can't dump an even bigger/longer contract off on us. Not many assets in the cupboard.
(11-19-2019, 06:37 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]I dont really see an impactful trade until draft night. Like dirkfan said, once we make that pick, we can package that pick + expiring THJ + someone like Brunson or Wright or DFS for a 3rd option.
I don't see the Mavs bowing out of 2021 cap space. So there is not much incentive for other teams to take THJ if they can't dump an even bigger/longer contract off on us. Not many assets in the cupboard.
We should be able to swing something for Lee + seconds, but I would agree it probably won't be "impactful."
(11-19-2019, 06:23 AM)Magickian Wrote: [ -> ]again... this is nearly a religious superstition that if we made this move we couldn't make any more moves in the next two years. This also pretends we only need to make moves for 3-4+ years out from now... but imo we need to put Luka in a spot to compete NOW... OR we run the risk of losing Luka before this long laid out plan of yours to play itself out.
You misunderstand. I'm not averse to spending big now nor waiting for 3 years be successful. I'm all for making a move now that also helps us down the road. CP3... for all his issues: ongoing decline, attitude, takes the ball away from Luka, possibly out due to injury comes playoffs... I suspect he'll be a net negative when all's said and done.
You may be right that he's the best candidate (at least in talent) available - but with the same principle I use in my job when hiring people: you don't hire the best guy out of a handful of choices; you try to find more choices. It's still early in the season. By TDL if the Sixers continue to overwhelm (Simmons and O'Connor discussed this in a recent Ringer podcast), they can be sellers, and so can other teams. Now, I hate Tobias Harris' contract, but the fact that he can be a contributor for us for a longer period than CP3 will make me look at that option harder. Smaller but smart moves sometimes work out better, too (Tyson/Peja/Brewer vs Rondo; Cousins and his injury failing to keep Brow in NO).
I also wish you didn't have to pin on me (or "my" plan
) the running the risk of losing Luka. Durant walked away from OKC/GS, Hayward from UTA, LeBron from MIA, Kawhi from TOR. In the end the organization can focus on continuing to do smart moves, and the player decides for himself.
(11-19-2019, 07:18 PM)radioaktiv Wrote: [ -> ]takes the ball away from Luka
It is my strong belief that we need someone capable of taking the ball away from Luka here and there. I am affraid if Luka can sustain this extreme level of effort through 82 games or will he start to decline at some point due to fatigue. Even Harden has Westbrook to carry some of the load on the offensive end. I am not saying CP3 is the only option, but he certainly is interesting, as his price is basically 0.
(11-19-2019, 07:18 PM)radioaktiv Wrote: [ -> ]Tobias Harris' contract,
I just can't see Philly trading Tobias to us. If they are trading him, they will look for an upgrade, not just salary dump. We have nothing in my opinion, that would be considered as an upgrade over Tobias for them. KP and Luka are of course off the table.
(11-19-2019, 07:18 PM)radioaktiv Wrote: [ -> ]you try to find more choices
We can wait forever for something good to appear or do the move "now" out of options we have. And by now I think it is most likely somewhere around TDL. I think it also relates a lot regarding the OKC plan. Do they want to actually compete or do they want to tank? They are winning a dangerous amount of games if the plan is to tank.
There was talk about Vucevic in the offseason. If he was here instead of Powell, we would be immediate contenders. It's clear we are one or two additions from being a lock in playoffs and in the race for the title.
If you're a Bogdan Bogdanovic fan you might want to tune into the Sacramento/Phoenix game. Dude can't miss. He'd look great in Dallas.
(11-19-2019, 11:00 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]If you're a Bogdan Bogdanovic fan you might want to tune into the Sacramento/Phoenix game. Dude can't miss. He'd look great in Dallas.
If you're a Bogdan fan, you're crying at performances like that because they raise his trade price considerably.
(11-19-2019, 08:04 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2019, 06:23 AM)Magickian Wrote: [ -> ]CP3 is absolutely our best chance to make a real move within the next two years, AND it does NOT hinder our chances to make more moves within the next two years, AND we could still move CP3 in two years with the worst-case scenario and reset for Luka's big payday
This sums it all up. I think there are very strong arguments to trade for CP3.
I am on the Trade-For-CP3 train because I've always loved his game and the thought of him next to Luka would be magic theoretically.
But the biggest argument against a trade for CP3 would be, is he really what this team needs? Which is a difficult question to answer right now today. I mean, this team is brand new, and hasn't even cracked the 20 game barrier. We aren't exactly sure of the dire cracks that the Mavs FO need to fix. I mean, so the consistent themes we've been needing more of is, perimeter defending, better skilled big's, consistent shooting, more playmaking, but really EVERY team needs that, and it's still too early to deem that the Mavs need any of that (I mean Seth is shooting 36% from 3). And the fact of the matter is trading for CP3 does handicap the team since they're using at least some of their assets to acquire him. Cap wise it isn't THAT bad for the Mavs, but tradeable assets wise is where the Mavs cupboard is a bit thin, and they need to be wise in how they use it.
I lean towards yes. that we should trade for CP3 and the risks are worth it, as he checks multiple boxes (perimeter defending, consistent shooting, leadership, playmaking). But if we subscribe to the CP3 to Mavs scenario, the Mavs are locking themselves in for at least 2 years, before his contract becomes even the slightest bit tradeable. That's a risky move to make especially since there isn't a clear cut on-court reason as to why to trade for CP3 in the first place, other than if the Mavs truly feel he's the missing piece.
AND that's even before getting to my biggest worry in bringing in Cp3, and that's the question of how he fits with Carlisle. Carlisle is known to be irrationally hard on PG's, and Paul is known for doing things his way. God forbid if the Mavs trade for CP3 and we have another Rondo situation; that'd gut the team for multiple seasons. Plus, EVERYWHERE Paul has gone he's rubbed his team the wrong way. Clippers traded him after several tumultuous offseasons filled with rumors about how the locker room is cracking. Rockets lasted 2 years before Harden personally requested CP3's departure (allegedly). Now, looking at who Paul was getting mad at (Deandre Jordan's boneheadedness, Harden's lack of care, etc.) can we really fault him? Objectively no, but what's to say Paul turning his ire against Luka or KP if he's here, and him causing locker room issues? That's another factor to consider in any trade for Paul. Perhaps there's nothing to worry about here though, since Luka is probably as hyper competitive as CP3. I mean the wonderboy ripped his jersey last year over a loss in a tanking season.
I really want to have CP3 on the Mavs, but it'd be as risky as a move as they could make right now, even if the asking price is only THJ+Lee+40-50's 2nd rounder.
@"omahen": good points. I don't disagree; I think there are many different ways we can slice this. Even though I don't think a CP3 trade is a smart move, if the Mavs pull the trigger I'll look at it from an angle where it could work, and have a little optimism.
(11-19-2019, 11:55 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]But if we subscribe to the CP3 to Mavs scenario, the Mavs are locking themselves in for at least 2 years, before his contract becomes even the slightest bit tradeable.
I like and agree with your post. I would just like to point out this, which is in my opinion wrong. Assuming DAL-OKC trade for CP3 happens. This would mean his monster contract was traded twice in a couple of months. So how can we say that his contract is untradeable? :-)
(11-19-2019, 11:55 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]even if the asking price is only THJ+Lee+40-50's 2nd rounder
For me, THJ+Lee is max I am paying. I would actually hope to get something more from their side. We are taking 130 mil of bad contract and give just 50 mil. This should be worth something, at least a couple of second rounders.
I'd much rather have Blake than CP3. We have multiple instances of CP3 ending every relationship with a fellow star teammate in a dumpster fire. Why are we supposed to believe CP3 would be any happier deferring to Luka as the ball dominant player in the final 5 minutes than he was with Harden? Blake's contract is cheaper (though still bad) and it's easy to slot him into the current team makeup/philosophy as basically a gigantic plug and play upgrade over Powell who can also take over the offensive load for 13-15 minutes a night when Luka is off the court or taking an offensive series off for a breather