(11-06-2019, 05:54 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Yes :-) We could spend another 20 million or so for a 3-D wing, which would make us even better. For me that was a wasted opportunity
So who should we have signed?
(11-06-2019, 05:56 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]So who should we have signed?
List below, most likely I forgot some other options. Neither of us have any idea who we could have signed, who was prepared to talk with us etc.
But everything was pointing out that Mavs were caught completely by surprise. Everyone was signing players while Mavs dealt with that Miami trade that failed completely. If Kemba and Green were targets, that alone makes the summer a failure, as they failed at both. This would effectively mean that we executed plan C.
List of 3-D guys within 20 per reach. As a non expert I would assume we could sign any of them if we offered a couple mil more. Everyone listed would be an upgrade from THJ or JJ and would still enable us to sign Wright, Curry and Bobi.
1. Notable exception: Brogdon (a bit over 20 per, but some moves like getting rid of Lee contract would probably enable him and all the rest that we signed)
2. Bogdanovic
3. Lamb
4. Young
5. Green
6. Ross
7. Beverly
8. Lamb
Pearl of the Miami trade fiasco was this statement: Dallas didn't want to trade for Dragic because they realized it would ruin their cap plans. Hm, which plans exactly would that be? Waiting for Green till the end to finally choose Lakers over us?
Please stop selling the story, how signing Wright, Bobi and Curry was a well thought masterplan. It was not. It was plan X after failing in plans A (Kemba), B (Miami trade), C (Green), D? (Bev) and who knows how many more.
(11-06-2019, 05:19 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]My thoughts:- I can't agree with saying that "how the team is playing beside the point".
- You're creating the rubric (regardless of how it jives with the team's plans) and then grading the team based on it, which is a bit arbitrary, but it's what fans do.
- Delon has delivered starter quality play. Seth has shown starter quality skill. I think the Mavs already viewed Powell and DFS as starter quality. Whether Delon and Seth are starters in name, or not, depends at this point on what needs to happen in order to create the most productive lineups for the team. Player minutes in the 20's and larger rotations are a trend that facilitates the trend of playing at a faster pace. Some teams are constructed in a way where "starter" is way less meaningful than it used to be.
- Then we disagree, cause the offseason already happened, that's just science.
- Seems to me you put the team's plans on a pedestal as if no other option is better. Realistic? Sure. Better, will never be proven one way or another. I as well as many posters believed going into the offseason that we had 2 starters on the team (including the assumed re-signed players). That means we needed 3 starters as I said. We had the money for 2 higher end contributing starters (oh, and by starters, I go by the same method as Scott has laid out in another thread, guys who would be starters on a championship quality team not guys that by default start a game...guys who can carry a load in the condensed rotation, higher minutes for higher contribution in the playoffs type players). Also, of course I create a rubric/mandate for the team to get better. I don't have privy to the closed doors, so the only realistic thing I can do is create a rubric/mandate of what we need as a team. They can choose who those guys are, and then I can judge them on whether or not that was the right choice. Isn't that how this goes? I will say, I agree with Ray Allen in that I don't feel "failure" is exactly the right word. I'd say the offseason was a disappointment and not on the mark. They secured a team that had the chance of being better than the sum of the parts due to the great possibility of the "gel" factor. That same "gel" factor could have been in play with 2 higher end starters though which maybe means we're 6-0 right now instead of 4-2 seeing how close both losses were.
- I think I mainly covered this with #2. Basically, better players are just better to have.
(11-06-2019, 05:56 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]So who should we have signed?
And that’s the question that none of the critics of the Mavs offseason seems to be able to answer. Who, indeed.
(11-06-2019, 06:23 PM)embellisher Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2019, 05:56 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]So who should we have signed?
And that’s the question that none of the critics of the Mavs offseason seems to be able to answer. Who, indeed.
There was TONS of this talk before FA opening, why would we need to talk about it again?
(11-06-2019, 06:34 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2019, 06:23 PM)embellisher Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2019, 05:56 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]So who should we have signed?
And that’s the question that none of the critics of the Mavs offseason seems to be able to answer. Who, indeed.
There was TONS of this talk before FA opening, why would we need to talk about it again?
Because most of the likely targets were 1. either sign-and-traded, 2. signed with a team that they would rather have played with, or 3. had an agreement in place before FA opened.
Options 2 and 3 both indicated that they didn’t want to play here at all, or felt that Luka and Unicorn wouldn’t get them deep in the playoffs, and signed with teams that they perceived to be better.
Free Agency this year just wasn't normal. There is a reason the NBA tries to push the anti tampering narrative now.
I think the Mavs did fine. I'm especially happy about Boban.
(11-06-2019, 06:45 PM)embellisher Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2019, 06:34 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2019, 06:23 PM)embellisher Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2019, 05:56 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]So who should we have signed?
And that’s the question that none of the critics of the Mavs offseason seems to be able to answer. Who, indeed.
There was TONS of this talk before FA opening, why would we need to talk about it again?
Because most of the likely targets were 1. either sign-and-traded, 2. signed with a team that they would rather have played with, or 3. had an agreement in place before FA opened.
Options 2 and 3 both indicated that they didn’t want to play here at all, or felt that Luka and Unicorn wouldn’t get them deep in the playoffs, and signed with teams that they perceived to be better.
So you agree with the offseason being a failure. Glad we got that set straight.
(11-06-2019, 07:00 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]So you agree with the offseason being a failure. Glad we got that set straight.
Whatever.
(11-06-2019, 06:55 PM)SportPsychMav Wrote: [ -> ]Free Agency this year just wasn't normal. There is a reason the NBA tries to push the anti tampering narrative now.
This can't be an excuse, because basically everyone was tampering. If the Mavs were one of very few waiting for the deadline, it doesn't really look good for the FO. If anything it shows they were naive and/or not prepared.
(11-06-2019, 04:55 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2019, 04:43 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Ahhhh, 2021, the next overhyped/overanticipated FA failure year.
You still think 2019 was a failure even though Delon, Seth, and Bobi look like great additions, and the team is already playing better than we expected?
I am pretty happy with the guys we got. I was all in on Kemba Walker who seems like he's putting up good stats. I was still worried about age and fit with Luka so that is something to keep an eye on.
Brogdon was the guy I really wanted but felt like the Mavs wouldn't go after despite being such a good fit on paper. I don't think they saw Brogdon worth double the price of Delon. We will see how that goes. Brogdon's stats look really good, 23.7 ppg, 9.4 apg, 5.3 rpg. 3% is lower right now but I suspect that will go up. I would have gone all in on Brogdon I think. We wouldn't have gotten Seth or Delon, Bobi was still in play for smaller MLE. Time will tell. I like Seth and Wright both. It just seems like Brogdon would have been the perfect 3rd guy in Dallas (like he was in Milwaukee).
If the plan for the offseason was to sign a 3rd star then yeah it was a massive failure.
If they were looking for more role-players to add to Luka and KP, then hope for a star in 2021 when more guns are FA. Then it worked out fine.
I think they were hoping for the star but changed focus on the first day of FA when all the stars had already decided on their team.
The Danny Green bromance was a bit weird, but by then it didn't really cost them much, maybe Dragic, but considering Luka is dominating the ball Dragic doesn't seem like a great fit.
I would say they graded at a B, decent but nothing special.
I also would have been happy with Danny Green and Pat Beverley. Getting those 2 guys seemed reasonable. I am not sure you couldn't have overpaid a bit to get them both in here. They are both older and making a lot of money so we'll see. At least the Mavs did good getting value contracts.
The last guy I would have liked who could have was Derrick Favors. Mavs could have gotten him for 2nd round picks (similar to Wright). I think he would have done well next to KP. He might become available again later on at the TDL or next summer. He might be a guy you look at with MLE money. I am not sold on Powell being a 30 mpg type of guy.
Favors was the one I was interested in, he is not a stretch big but plays great D and rebounds well. Looks like a great fit with KP.
On a trade note, what Does Memphis actually want for Iggy?
Do they really expect to get a 1st for him?
Or is the hold up that Iggy is telling most teams he doesn't want to play for them and so they are hesitant to trade for him?
If Dallas can just send Lee and a couple of 2nds for him they should do it ASAP. May as well add Bro since they aren't using him anyway.
Adds more experience and depth to the SF spot, start Iggy but only play him 20-25 mins to keep him fresh.
DFS can play 20mins off the bench at SF.
Imagine being able to get Drummond
(11-06-2019, 05:19 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2019, 05:01 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]Failure is a bit strong but yes I do.
You can add MLE level players every offseason. Mavs had $30 million in cap space and the most impact player(s) they added cost less than $10 million.
Do you think they failed because they missed on Kemba and Green? Do you think they failed because it looks like they didn't prioritize Brogdon and Pat Bev?
read my quote again. the answer is in there. when you have that much cap space, you gotta add a better player than Delon Wright. You add guys like Seth and Delon once you already have your cap space spent and only exemptions remaining.
tonight's game is a prime example of why these guys were cheap. they're good role players. they're not someone you can go to when Luka or KP are struggling.
It doesn't really matter what the names are but I posted about 200 times on the old board that my #1 target would be Brogdon at 4/$95 and if we can't get him, my #2 target would be Bojan. Brogdon is averaging 24 and 9.5 on the exact same efg% as Luka. He's probably a 18 and 6 guy here on elite efficiency as the third option. He's the first option in Indiana right now with Oladipo out. Bojan is averaging 20 on a blistering 60% efg%.
I honestly don't know if I can think of a player in the league that would be a better fit on this team as a third option. I've had friends that live in other cities ask me why we didn't go after Brogdon. It was an obvious fit to anyone that understands basketball. Only thing I can hope is that the Mavs were the only team who didn't tamper and were caught with their pants down when free agency started.
(11-06-2019, 11:02 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2019, 05:19 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2019, 05:01 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]Failure is a bit strong but yes I do.
You can add MLE level players every offseason. Mavs had $30 million in cap space and the most impact player(s) they added cost less than $10 million.
Do you think they failed because they missed on Kemba and Green? Do you think they failed because it looks like they didn't prioritize Brogdon and Pat Bev?
read my quote again. the answer is in there. when you have that much cap space, you gotta add a better player than Delon Wright. You add guys like Seth and Delon once you already have your cap space spent and only exemptions remaining.
tonight's game is a prime example of why these guys were cheap. they're good role players. they're not someone you can go to when Luka or KP are struggling.
It doesn't really matter what the names are but I posted about 200 times on the old board that my #1 target would be Brogdon at 4/$95 and if we can't get him, my #2 target would be Bojan. Brogdon is averaging 24 and 9.5 on the exact same efg% as Luka. He's probably a 18 and 6 guy here on elite efficiency as the third option. He's the first option in Indiana right now with Oladipo out. Bojan is averaging 20 on a blistering 60% efg%.
I honestly don't know if I can think of a player in the league that would be a better fit on this team as a third option. I've had friends that live in other cities ask me why we didn't go after Brogdon. It was an obvious fit to anyone that understands basketball. Only thing I can hope is that the Mavs were the only team who didn't tamper and were caught with their pants down when free agency started.
Exactly! Brogdon has that injury risk with him, other than that he is excellent. As would be Bojan. As you put it - perfect number three guys. Team first guys, efficient, good scorers, play honest defense.
All I want for Christmas is Jonathan Isaac
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/WOl39OnzTrv3403D5p/giphy.gif)
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/fubvTuHcngod2udFOW/giphy.gif)
Unfortunately we don't have the assets for a lottery kid who is performing well and is still under his rookie scale contract like Isaac. But the Otto Porter-situation might become interesting. He's overpaid in general and really struggling this season so far. Then you got CHI being awul once again which might to a situation where we can improve the overall talent level without sending out much in terms of value outside of expirings + small contracts. Poter has a player option for next season which adds another unknown factor for CHI.
The Washington-Porter would be a tremendous addition. Low usage-high efficiency player on offense, versatile defender, good shooter.
(11-05-2019, 09:16 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Intresting pieces to keep an eye for 2021 FA (Defensive wings that can score at least 10 ppg) : Anunoby (TOR), Isaac (ORL), Richardson (MIA), Oubre (PHO), Porter (CHI).
Forwards on the trade block: Gallinari (OKC), Ibaka (TOR), Gordon (ORL).
Powell can't be our starter if we want rings.
Intresting names for 2021 FA as well (already said why we are not in a good position to get starter caliber players) to help in that starter C position: Adebayo (MIA), Allen (BKN).
Bigs on the trade block: Turner (IND), Adams (OKC), Capela (HOU), Favors (NOP), Thompson (CLE).