A lot of "hype" around Vassell, Bey and Nesmith around media - I would say their potential is getting over valued because there are not many wings available and everyone is looking for 3-D Robert Covington type of players. All mocks have them picked before #18 now.
Since we severly overpaid several Schwartz players (Barnes, Jordan, Powell) before, I think it is time to return the favour. I would take Bey with #18, Saric in the MLE and trade Wright+#31 for Osman. If this is not feasible, I am also happy with trading #18, 2025 first and Brunson for John Collins.
(06-09-2020, 09:30 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of "hype" around Vassell, Bey and Nesmith around media - I would say their potential is getting over valued because there are not many wings available and everyone is looking for 3-D Robert Covington type of players. All mocks have them picked before #18 now.
Since we severly overpaid several Schwartz players (Barnes, Jordan, Powell) before, I think it is time to return the favour. I would take Bey with #18, Saric in the MLE and trade Wright+#31 for Osman. If this is not feasible, I am also happy with trading #18, 2025 first and Brunson for John Collins.
Tankathon still has Saddiq Bey at #18. Besides there is always a chance the Grizzlies and Suns get their Brooks and Beys confused and pick the other one.
Given the amount of shooters on our team, we can do with a poor shooter as long as he plays shutdown perimeter defense.
(06-09-2020, 11:10 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Given the amount of shooters on our team, we can do with a poor shooter as long as he plays shutdown perimeter defense.
Than we should just sign Dunn for the MLE - you can't really get much better than that. But I am affraid his positive effect on defense will be offset with his negative impact on offense. Although - with Doncic playing a bit offball would create unlimited driving lanes for Dunn. Dunn with ball surrounded by Luka, KP, DFS and Timmy could still be a very efficient offense. Of course there will only be so much time with Luka playing offball.
(06-09-2020, 11:10 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Besides there is always a chance the Grizzlies and Suns get their Brooks and Beys confused and pick the other one
Good one
(06-09-2020, 11:24 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2020, 11:10 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Given the amount of shooters on our team, we can do with a poor shooter as long as he plays shutdown perimeter defense.
Than we should just sign Dunn for the MLE - you can't really get much better than that. But I am affraid his positive effect on defense will be offset with his negative impact on offense. Although - with Doncic playing a bit offball would create unlimited driving lanes for Dunn. Dunn with ball surrounded by Luka, KP, DFS and Timmy could still be a very efficient offense. Of course there will only be so much time with Luka playing offball.
If he is that good defensively , we can deal with it easily. The Bulls are the worst offense in the NBA, whenever LaVine is not on the floor. Even without Luka we are still pretty good. If we get Dunn and maybe Bey/Ramsey in the draft, we´d be a much better team.
Also we have not seen play-off Luka yet, aka as three Spanish League titles, two Spanish Cups, a EuroLeague and a European Championship. At age 21 Luka has won the title in more than 50% of the competitions he has competed in. I just hope we can avoid the Clippers in round one. I think we can take everybody else.
(06-09-2020, 12:00 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]If he is that good defensively , we can deal with it easily.
It is not that easy. Guy like Dunn just kills your driving lanes as soon as he plays off ball. Dunn was certainly a big part of Chicago bad offense.
(06-09-2020, 12:05 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2020, 12:00 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]If he is that good defensively , we can deal with it easily.
It is not that easy. Guy like Dunn just kills your driving lanes as soon as he plays off ball. Dunn was certainly a big part of Chicago bad offense.
A good coach on a good team can cover the shooting inefficiency of one player imho (especially a role player). At two you run into trouble. Besides Dunn had a real positive shooting trajectory for the first three years...
28 --> 32 --> 35 (3pt)
61 --> 74 --> 80 (FT)
That suggests there is at least a chance he becomes a viable open shooter on a better team. Look at all the Mavs roleplayers. Just Luka (and Porzingis) drawing the attention and Luka delivering set-up passes with pin point accuracy improves the 3pt percentages of all his teammates. We went from 27th to 8th in 3pt percentage this year and if Luka wasn´t so bad himself
we´d easily be 3rd behind Miami and Utah.
this year's draft is unique. it is not as top heavy as the previous years. in fact there's not a significant difference in terms of talent and upside between those pegged to be picked after 10 down to 60. If I were the Mavs I would gobble as much talent as possible. elevate josh reaves, trade down to get additional 2nd rounders. I think vassel, nesmith and bey are gone before 18. I like the upside of cassius stanley who reminds me of derrick jones jr. yves pons or lamar stevens? desmond bane reminds me a lot of eric gordon. pokusevski has the highest upside but could take a while to develop. grant riller could also be good. I am higher on tre jones than jalen brunson.
[b]18. Dallas Mavericks[/b]
[b]Aleksej Pokusevski | 7-0 center | 18 years old | Olympicacos B[/b]
Maybe this is me just reading too much into the international scouting scene. The Mavericks are about as plugged in there as any team across the NBA, led by Tony Ronzone. It’s hard for me to imagine a world where, in a relatively strong international draft that is likely to see five players from overseas taken in the first round, the Mavericks wouldn’t get involved in the party. There are a couple of two-way wings available that could appeal to the Mavericks like Saddiq Bey or Josh Green. But I’m going to assume that they go home run with the first draft pick, then maybe try to do something a bit more solid at No. 31.
Here, Pokusevski would certainly be a big swing. A Serbian-Greek center for Olympiacos’ second team, Pokusevski is a 7-footer with legitimately terrific shooting potential and terrific athleticism. He is seen as an interesting long-term play as the league continues to look for floor spacing from the frontcourt. He moves like a wing and has a 7-3 wingspan. He can pass the ball at a high level. In the second division Greek league, he averaged 10.8 points, 7.9 rebounds, 3.1 assists and over a steal and a block in just 23 minutes per game. At that level, he’s the most athletic player on the court and takes advantage of it, even if his relative inefficiency isn’t terrific. But what does this very skinny big man’s game look like when he’s not the most athletic guy? Honestly, I have no idea, but I hope he goes to a situation like Dallas that will develop him right so that we can find out.
[b]31. Dallas Mavericks (via GSW)[/b]
[b]Cassius Stanley | 6-6 wing | 20 years old, freshman | Duke[/b]
The Mavericks are in a fascinating space right now as they enter their contention window with Kristaps Porzingis and Luka Doncic. They do tend to draft older in the second round, but I wonder if they’d be willing to take a flyer on someone who really fills a need athletically on their roster. Stanley’s athleticism is a total joke. He’s got a shot to win a dunk contest one day, and he runs the floor extremely well. He also gets good use out of that athleticism on the court because he plays hard consistently.The jumper remains a worry and Stanley will need to rep it out to get rid of a hitch that hinders his consistency. But as an athletic defensive player who gets out in transition, this might be a really strong fit with Doncic in the backcourt who can take on tough assignments while also being a running mate.
https://theathletic.com/1926516/2020/07/...draft-day/
I am fine with the first pick but have no idea on the second, looks like a reach for 31.
Been touting Pokusevski for most of rhe season... Exact type player the Mavs would want...
(07-16-2020, 09:04 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]Been touting Pokusevski for most of the season... Exact type player the Mavs would want...
We could trade down and swap 1st round picks w/Philly (18/22) for Pokusevski and pick up a few of Philly's 2nd round picks. This is something we have done in the past. Maybe this could be part of a bigger trade w/Philly like are friend Omahen has been pushing?
(07-16-2020, 10:11 PM)chaparral Wrote: [ -> ] (07-16-2020, 09:04 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]Been touting Pokusevski for most of the season... Exact type player the Mavs would want...
We could trade down and swap 1st round picks w/Philly (18/22) for Pokusevski and pick up a few of Philly's 2nd round picks. This is something we have done in the past. Maybe this could be part of a bigger trade w/Philly like are friend Omahen has been pushing?
Getting extra picks is good for using in trades to get players who would compliment Luka and KP IMO while still getting the player you wanted all along...or you have extra chances of getting a serviceable player at a cheap price...
I'm kind of against these projects like Poku for us. I feel we need a high floor/low ceiling guy that can comfortably play right out of the gate on our rotation. My favorites are:
- Trade up (#18 + #31 gets us into the 10-14 range): D. Vassell, T. Maxey, T. Haliburton. Possible 4th to 5th starters that complement very well our squad.
- #18: P. Achiuwa, S. Bey, A. Nesmith. I can see them in a 5th to 7th man roles.
- #31: T. Bey, D. Bane, K. Tillie. 7th to 10th man roles.
- Trade down: I. Quickley, I. Joe, C. Kispert. 2-way that can develop into a role player.
(07-17-2020, 09:39 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm kind of against these projects like Poku for us.
Totally agree about Pokusevski. Mavs don't have the luxury to give him minutes to develop. And he doesn't look ready to contribute in some 2 years.
I am affraid S.Bey and Nesmith will be gone before #18 and Vassell even entered top 10 range in most of recent mocks I've seen.
Everyone needs 3-D wings. But I would definitely trade up for him. Perhaps even for Bey and Nesmith. Mavs need players who can contribute right away. I am affraid only this kind of guys will see minutes and be able to develop.
(07-17-2020, 09:51 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2020, 09:39 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm kind of against these projects like Poku for us.
Totally agree about Pokusevski. Mavs don't have the luxury to give him minutes to develop. And he doesn't look ready to contribute in some 2 years.
I am affraid S.Bey and Nesmith will be gone before #18 and Vassell even entered top 10 range in most of recent mocks I've seen. Everyone needs 3-D wings. But I would definitely trade up for him. Perhaps even for Bey and Nesmith. Mavs need players who can contribute right away. I am affraid only this kind of guys will see minutes and be able to develop.
Agree in general but in case of Pokusevski the Mavs could probably draft and stash. Obviously a longterm project but he wouldn´t cost a roster spot.
Looking at bigman I am still on the Azubuike hype train. Draft the biggest/strongest 7ft guy in the draft and have a reliable and cheap backup big for the next 4 years. Worst case scenario he is a useful defensive big that can defend the few remaining post up players and protect the rim. Best case scenario he is the Drummond/Capela type of big that some posters asked for all season long. Just a lot cheaper.
(07-17-2020, 10:59 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2020, 09:51 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2020, 09:39 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm kind of against these projects like Poku for us.
Totally agree about Pokusevski. Mavs don't have the luxury to give him minutes to develop. And he doesn't look ready to contribute in some 2 years.
I am affraid S.Bey and Nesmith will be gone before #18 and Vassell even entered top 10 range in most of recent mocks I've seen. Everyone needs 3-D wings. But I would definitely trade up for him. Perhaps even for Bey and Nesmith. Mavs need players who can contribute right away. I am affraid only this kind of guys will see minutes and be able to develop.
Agree in general but in case of Pokusevski the Mavs could probably draft and stash. Obviously a longterm project but he wouldn´t cost a roster spot.
Looking at bigman I am still on the Azubuike hype train. Draft the biggest/strongest 7ft guy in the draft and have a reliable and cheap backup big for the next 4 years. Worst case scenario he is a useful defensive big that can defend the few remaining post up players and protect the rim. Best case scenario he is the Drummond/Capela type of big that some posters asked for all season long. Just a lot cheaper.
Is it realistic to draft and stash the only 1st round pick you will have over a 3 year period? Seems like a wasted pick to me.
(07-17-2020, 09:51 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2020, 09:39 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm kind of against these projects like Poku for us.
Totally agree about Pokusevski. Mavs don't have the luxury to give him minutes to develop. And he doesn't look ready to contribute in some 2 years.
I am affraid S.Bey and Nesmith will be gone before #18 and Vassell even entered top 10 range in most of recent mocks I've seen. Everyone needs 3-D wings. But I would definitely trade up for him. Perhaps even for Bey and Nesmith. Mavs need players who can contribute right away. I am affraid only this kind of guys will see minutes and be able to develop.
Same age, same league:
Player A: 22.5 MPG, 46/31/72, 9.5 PPG, 5.0 RPG, 1.4 APG, 1.0 BPG
Player B: 22.6 MPG,
49/32/78, 10.8 PPG, 7.9 RPG, 3.1 APG, 1.8 BPG
Player B has better individual stats in every single category, Player A is Giannis.
If Donnie and Tony Ronzone give him their stamp of approval, he´ll be a Maverick.
That whole theory that overseas players need more time to develop, whlie college kids are immediate contributors is BS anyway.
Year 2 stats of current overseas raised players:
Giannis 13/7/2
Doncic 29/9/9
Jokic 17/10/5
Nurkic 8/6/1.5 blks (behind Jokic)
Gobert 8/10/2.5 blks
Sabonis 12/8/2
Valanciunas 12/9
Vucevic 13/12
Ibaka 10/8/2.5 blks
Porzingis 18/7/2 blks
Simmons 17/9/8
Markkanen 19/9
Saric 15/7/3
Gallinari 15/5/2
Rubio 11/4/7/2.5 stls
There are no magically late blooming Europeans. Show me one in the whole NBA. The best cases are probably Kanter, Fournier and Siakam, who played in Cameroon until age 18. He was 17/7/3 on a championship team in his 3rd year.
Make your argument that he´s going to suck. Fair enough. There is a much better chance of that happening than him becoming special, but not showing it for the first three years.
If you can play, you can play.
You all must have heard the Dirk is going back home story too often.
Btw he put up 17/8/3 in his 2nd season.
Looking at the last 5 years, here are the europe-overseas (no Africa/Australia) bigs drafted in the first round besides KP:
- 2015: N. Milutnov
- 2016: A. Zizic, G. Yabusele, J. Hernangomez, G. Papagiannis, D. Bender
- 2017: A. Pasecniks
- 2018: D. Musa
- 2019: Too soon to judge
I can see the argument of him becoming a very good player, but I really can't see him playing 32 minutes here in year 2 like Giannis to develop a feel for the game. Most of these guys on your list were full-time starters by year 2, watching his videos and draft profiles, I just can't see that here. We will most likely be in the playoffs from now on trying to win it all, that's why I want to draft a guy with high-floor/low-ceiling ready to contribute and play 15-20 mpg on a championship team. If we were a rebuilding team like NYK/OKC/SAC I would totally go for him.
Take for example last year's draft where S. Doumboya/G. Bitadze/L. Samanic were drafted on our range ahead of B. Clarke/M. Thybulle because of age and potential.
(07-18-2020, 08:43 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Player A is Giannis.
Totally uncomparable situation. Giannis came to a bad Milwaukee who had the luxury of several "no expectations" seasons allowing them to give serious minutes to Giannis and let him develop. Dallas can't afford that with Pokusevski. Besides, it is very easy to list positives and ignore all the negatives, which there are plenty of.
(07-18-2020, 08:43 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]That whole theory that overseas players need more time to develop, whlie college kids are immediate contributors is BS anyway.
I don't know anything about this kind of theory and never saw it posted here. I don't know why you are using this as an argument. It is a consensus reading any scout report about Pokusevski, that he is not NBA ready. He has some 180 pounds on a 7 foot frame, just to name one obstacle. Not to mention many negative sides of his performance in Europe.
(07-18-2020, 08:43 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]If Donnie and Tony Ronzone give him their stamp of approval, he´ll be a Maverick.
No way, I don't believe that. Who are these guys anyway? It is opinions from this forum that counts!
