(10-23-2020, 02:57 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Is Bane 6-6 with or without shoes?
I have no idea. But his height is irrelevant to me. We already know his wingspan (unless it has changed and that will be revealed soon with Combine numbers).
(10-23-2020, 03:02 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Also a statistical analysis of how wingspan is important for defense. Personally - sure it helps, but a will to play defense and hustle is much more important.
https://fansided.com/2018/07/03/nylon-ca...n-defense/
At first glance this seems fundamentally flawed because why on earth would wingspan differential matter at all? You could have a +6.0 inch wingspan differential and only have a 6'0" wingspan. I would want to do a correlation on just wingspan (and standing reach, not height)...who cares about the differential.
(10-23-2020, 03:03 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I have no idea. But his height is irrelevant to me. We already know his wingspan (unless it has changed and that will be revealed soon with Combine numbers).
Well, Brunson has same wingspan... I find it hard disregarding players because of one negative while ignoring all the positive. I bet Mugsy heard a lot of times he is too short to play basketball.
(10-23-2020, 03:12 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I find it hard disregarding players because of one negative while ignoring all the positive
Who is disregarding the player based on "one negative"? I am concerned about his defense translating for more than one reason. Wingspan is just part of that.
But if I am comparing Quickley and Bane I am going to lean toward Quickley with a 6'10" wingspan who was a better defender statistically in college and is just slightly worse as a spot up three point shooter.
(10-23-2020, 03:15 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Who is disregarding the player based on "one negative"? I am concerned about his defense translating for more than one reason. Wingspan is just part of that.
Sorry, you mentioned 2 negatives. Yet completely ignored all the positives, that also count when playing defense. I am not sure if you could read the article, but I was really impressed by his smarts, work ethic, basketball IQ and will to play. I don't know how Quickley stands in that regard, but it would be necessary to know to be able to compare. Surely his impressive wingspan led to less steals and blocks against same competition as Bane. FT % is actually the only thing Quickley was better at.
As for 3 point shooting. Bane had a pretty steady percentage last 3 seasons. Quickley was just 34 % on 87 shots a season before.
Let's also compare what an established writer have to say about both
[b]Immanuel Quickley | 6-3 guard | 20 years old, sophomore | Kentucky[/b]
Quickley makes his first mock draft appearance after deciding to declare for the draft fully in recent weeks. The SEC Player of the Year in 2020, Quickley is an absolutely elite level shooter. He hit about 43 percent of his 3-point attempts this past season for Kentucky despite being at the top of scouting reports throughout the final two-thirds of the SEC season, and made 92.3 percent of his free throws. And a lot of those shots came on the move, either off the bounce or coming off of screens. He’s also capable of defending up the lineup despite being 6-foot-3, although I wouldn’t say he’s overly switchable and trustworthy there. The issue, however, is that he’s not a point guard. He’s purely an off-guard that can knock down shots, and might not be able to really do much else at an NBA level. Given the importance of shooting in today’s NBA, that might be enough to get the job done. But it’s not a surefire translation, and scouts are mixed on if his future is in the NBA or overseas.
[b]Desmond Bane | 6-5 guard | 22 years old, senior | TCU[/b]
This is a bit of a spike for Bane up to No. 21. Sources around the league have begun noting that they’d be surprised if he got out of the first round right now, simply because almost every team at the bottom of the first round could make a reasonable case for selecting him. Miami really values shooting and is said to be a fan. Denver could use another wing shooter. Utah could use another wing shooter and two-way player. Milwaukee could certainly use another reliable shot-maker next to Giannis. Boston tends to value these big, strong wings with size and shooting ability, and they have two picks in this range. The Lakers will continue to work to surround LeBron James and Anthony Davis with shooters going forward. And of course, no team could use shooting more than Philadelphia, who desperately needs to surround Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid with more floor-spacing.
In his four years at TCU, Bane made 43.3 percent of his near-600 3-point attempts. He also improved a lot this year as an option with the ball in his hands. The big concern here is that he’s 6-foot-6 with a negative wingspan that hinders him when contesting shooters both on-ball and when closing out. However, he has good strength and knows where to be defensively. He should turn into a solid role-playing floor-spacer at the next level, and I have a late first-round grade on him. He’s been a riser throughout the pre-draft process for a lot of the reasons mentioned above. He’s gone into interviews and has been impressive with his understanding of how he’s going to operate at the next level. The name Joe Harris has come up a lot from front offices.
Btw - which stats are saying Quickley is a better defender? The way I see it, Bane is actually better.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla...ley-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla...ane-1.html
Just a final argument. I don't think Lowry or CP3 are excellent defenders because of their exceptional physical predispositions. They are excellent because they play hard and smart, they are tough, willing to sacrifice their body. I can see all of this in Bane.
Bane allowed 0.54 PPP in one-on-one possessions. Quickley allowed 0.48 PPP. Those are synergy stats I am looking at.
(10-23-2020, 04:30 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Bane allowed 0.54 PPP in one-on-one possessions. Quickley allowed 0.48 PPP. Those are synergy stats I am looking at.
So both are good in this stat. There are also others and Bane is better in them
I really admire the person he seems to be and looks like a lot of teams are being convinced. I think elite hard working, BBIQ, hard playing players, which he seems to be, have a very good chance to have a very good career and are often found on contending teams.
A compromise - trade down with Philly and we can pick both
I wonder how much, if any, the recent success of Tyler Herro and Gilgeous-Alexander, Bam, et. al has on the evaluation of the Kentucky player.
Obviously, Calipari had the market cornered on one and dones for a long time, and the UK top of the board guys have had mixed results, but with the r cent flurry of Kentucky mid first rounders of late, could there be something of a push to find that next impact Kentucky mid first round (late lottery) star?
While the measurables give one pause, Bane just seems like a Mavs culture fit.
I wish that 18, 31, and cash could get the Mavs high enough to get Saddiq Bey.
(10-23-2020, 09:15 PM)903Mavs Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder how much, if any, the recent success of Tyler Herro and Gilgeous-Alexander, Bam, et. al has on the evaluation of the Kentucky player.
Obviously, Calipari had the market cornered on one and dones for a long time, and the UK top of the board guys have had mixed results, but with the r cent flurry of Kentucky mid first rounders of late, could there be something of a push to find that next impact Kentucky mid first round (late lottery) star?
Yeah, it is a copycat league, so I imagine you are spot on here. I think it is why Maxey is mocked as high as he is when his on court display over the season doesn't really warrant it.
Mock draft:
https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/nba-mock-...ny-edwards
8) Haliburton
9) Achiuwa
10) Vassell
12) Nesmith
13) SBey
18) Cole Anthony
19) Hampton
20) Woodard
21) Maledon
27) TBey
29) Bolmaro
Mock draft:
https://elitesportsny.com/2020/10/23/nba...e-at-no-8/
6) Vassell
11) Haliburton
14) Achiuwa
15) Nesmith
16) Maledon
18) SBey
22) TBey
25) Hampton
29) Bolmaro
Of course it can all be BS, but I believe that the Warriors really like Avdija. He fits a need and is more their type of player, too. Versatility, size and skill. The Hornets will likely take Wiseman. Can´t blame them. He´ll probably give them a steady 18/10 and they have no true C on their roster beyond next season. That leaves the Wolves with a pick between the potential stars: Edwards/Ball and the Bulls will get a nice prize at #4. Since I believe Minnesota like Ball more than Edwards, they´ll probably like to trade down, but I´m not sure somebody will blink.
I predict
1. Ball
2. Avdija
3. Wiseman
4. Edwards
--------------
5.-8.
Given the need for some backcourt size in Cleveland/Atlanta and the lack of a starting PG in Detroit/New York Haliburton and Hayes go off the board here.
Beyond that it´s throwing darts imho.
(10-23-2020, 04:40 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2020, 04:30 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Bane allowed 0.54 PPP in one-on-one possessions. Quickley allowed 0.48 PPP. Those are synergy stats I am looking at.
So both are good in this stat. There are also others and Bane is better in them I really admire the person he seems to be and looks like a lot of teams are being convinced. I think elite hard working, BBIQ, hard playing players, which he seems to be, have a very good chance to have a very good career and are often found on contending teams.
A compromise - trade down with Philly and we can pick both
How does level of player guarded factor into this PPP stat? If THJ only defended me all his life, he´d give up 0.0000000
1 PPP. I baited him with a pumpfake once and made one of two FTs.
I am not hearing enough chatter from you guys about Aaron Nesmith. He is arguably the best shooter in the draft. He compares favorably to Kris Middleton to me. Can you guys imagine this guy catch and shooting from Luka?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uuiGxkbMKk
25 days until we trade our FRP the draft.
(10-24-2020, 04:34 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I am not hearing enough chatter from you guys about Aaron Nesmith. He is arguably the best shooter in the draft.
I have him #6 on my current Mavs-centric big board. I am definitely in on him if he falls to #18. His shooting looks really special.
(10-24-2020, 04:34 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I am not hearing enough chatter from you guys about Aaron Nesmith. He is arguably the best shooter in the draft. He compares favorably to Kris Middleton to me. Can you guys imagine this guy catch and shooting from Luka?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uuiGxkbMKk
As the President of the John Jenkins fanclub let me tell you that Vanderbilt always has some guard with incredible shooting percentages that do not translate to the NBA. I have noticed this a few times. I don´t know what it is with them, but they always seem to have that guard, who shoots like 44% from three, but the best NBA player they ever produced might be Will Perdue.
Garland is the only player from Vanderbilt to average double digit career points (in just his rookie season) and that might already put him in the conversation for greatest Vanderbilt NBA player. He only played five games in college and he shot 54/48/75.
The best NBA 3 pt shooter in the school´s history is actually still John Jenkins at 36.7% and he shot 47/44/86 in college for three years.
That´s why I am nearly completely out on Nesmith.
Yes eventually one of them will break the trend, but I´d rather not bank on it.
We had the same conversation, when it came to Zach Collins and the Mavs 8th pick in 2017. Collins actually has shown glimpses between all his injuries, but the facts remain that he´s 22 yeard old and averaging 6/4. White American trained bigs (PF/C) usually suck in the NBA. You take the European over the White American just based on statistical evidence.
Wade Baldwin was picked 17th pick by the Grizzlies. Shot 42% from three on 200 attempts in college. Shot 36% from the field and 25% from three in the NBA and canned after three seasons.
(10-24-2020, 04:34 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I am not hearing enough chatter from you guys about Aaron Nesmith. He is arguably the best shooter in the draft. He compares favorably to Kris Middleton to me. Can you guys imagine this guy catch and shooting from Luka?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uuiGxkbMKk
I'm not much into scouting but I've the videos I've watched, he's probably my favorite guy projected in our range. He has an elite skill that will translate to the NBA.
(10-24-2020, 04:34 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I am not hearing enough chatter from you guys about Aaron Nesmith. He is arguably the best shooter in the draft. He compares favorably to Kris Middleton to me. Can you guys imagine this guy catch and shooting from Luka?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uuiGxkbMKk
If he had some pullup game, he would look like THJ on a good day. That's very much to like, but how does he look on a bad day?
And how many bad days does he have.
(10-25-2020, 01:58 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]If he had some pullup game, he would look like THJ on a good day. That's very much to like, but how does he look on a bad day?
And how many bad days does he have.
He was actually good off the dribble scoring 0.92 PPP.
Here is his overall shot chart:
![[Image: aaron-nesmith-shot-chart-1024x799.jpg]](http://stats-prod.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/65/2020/06/aaron-nesmith-shot-chart-1024x799.jpg)