Gobert to me just isn't that much better than an Adams or Capella type. I was all about those guys a couple of years ago, especially Capella bc he showed he could do well on switches. We have seen these type of centers get marginalized in the playoffs time and time again. Gobert is a very good player but Mavs don't need that type of player to win a championship. I am very happy with a KP playmaking, versatile PF/C combo as my centerpiece big on this team.
(12-21-2020, 12:26 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]AD could have been the finals MVP. Saying he's overrated is not a data-supported claim either, it's an opinion.
It's BOTH. Data supported AND my opinion.
FACT 1: AD was -2.4 on/off defense last year and -1.2 on/off overall (ranking 7th on his OWN team among those with 1000+ minutes, Lebron was 1st).
FACT 2: AD was ranked 35th in the NBA in RPM last year (Lebron was 2nd).
So my shortened opinion:
AD is overrated.
My longer opinion:
AD is overrated in comparison to current hype. He was indeed GREAT in the playoffs and was a perfect complement to Lebron. But when he was "the man" he was not able to accomplish anything like this past season. He is a great basketball player, but a second banana. I think he is top 15 in the NBA, but not top 5-7 like most rate him. Hence my opinion is that he is overrated (by about 10 ranking spots).
(12-21-2020, 12:20 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Fifteenth we are all friends here but this argument that Gobert is a top 10 player is just crazy. Nobody can be this limited a player and be top 10. He is not a guy that can get you a bucket on his own and that to me is a minimum requirement to be top 10. Even on defense he isn't perfect, Jokic carved him up in the playoffs. He doesn't have versatility that AD or LeBron have on defense. It's great that he is an analytics darling but it's not realistic to say he is a top 10 player.
Agree with "we all friends here". Sorry if my defense of Kam was too aggressive. But I don't think offering an opinion that Gobert is top 10 and then supporting with data is crazy. I don't think he's top 10... but having that opinion, supported by data, is not crazy.
(12-21-2020, 11:45 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]My views are filled with nuance, I wish people would read what I am saying a little more closely.
I very often have this thought.
(12-21-2020, 12:26 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]You talk ab baseless claims and yet we have a lot of this "AD is overrated," "Tatum" is overrated claims from Kamm in this thread. WTF?
Opinions on all this stuff vary wildly. I don't think any of this stuff that you're reacting too is in the spectrum of "crazy". Hopefully this isn't too unfriendly, but I'm pretty sure that you thought the opinion, "it looks like the Mavs may start Powell" was crazy. Maybe it's possible that the range of "sane" opinions is wider than you think.
(12-21-2020, 01:10 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I very often have this thought.
Maybe I've contributed to you having to think that. My apologies, pal. I'll try to read more thoughtfully.
(12-21-2020, 01:12 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Opinions on all this stuff vary wildly. I don't think any of this stuff that you're reacting too is in the spectrum of "crazy". Hopefully this isn't too unfriendly, but I'm pretty sure that you thought the opinion, "it looks like the Mavs may start Powell" was crazy. Maybe it's possible that the range of "sane" opinions is wider than you think.
Hey fifteenth look ya I don't me crazy like he should be put in an insane asylum, it's a figure of speech which I think goes without saying? At any rate I do think this thread is completely crazy but also wildly entertaining bc Kamm is so dug into this position that Gobert is some kind of generational superstar you build around. It feels like trolling except that I am 100% sure he is serious. To your point, I didn't think Mavs would start Powell but here we are so ya I can be wrong too.
Sacre bleu. This escalated more quickly than Gobert´s salary.
(12-21-2020, 12:40 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]It's BOTH. Data supported AND my opinion.
FACT 1: AD was -2.4 on/off defense last year and -1.2 on/off overall (ranking 7th on his OWN team among those with 1000+ minutes, Lebron was 1st).
FACT 2: AD was ranked 35th in the NBA in RPM last year (Lebron was 2nd).
So my shortened opinion: AD is overrated.
My longer opinion: AD is overrated in comparison to current hype. He was indeed GREAT in the playoffs and was a perfect complement to Lebron. But when he was "the man" he was not able to accomplish anything like this past season. He is a great basketball player, but a second banana. I think he is top 15 in the NBA, but not top 5-7 like most rate him. Hence my opinion is that he is overrated (by about 10 ranking spots).
AD is great but to your point he couldn't carry a team on his own. So he is an enigma in that regard. But I would say he isn't overrated if he is part of a good core, similar to most other players. In recent memory, LeBron is the only guy that could consistently carry a team deep in the playoffs almost by himself.
I look at it through this lense, all things being equal could LeBron and Gobert have won a championship this past year instead of LeBron + AD? No way. They would have been good but those guys + also-rans would not win a championship even tho they compliment each other in some ways. AD's unicorn-abilities + LeBron being who he is propelled them to that championship.
(12-21-2020, 01:27 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think we all do.
Not me. I'm a blunt object that hits with the same psi with every swing.
(12-21-2020, 01:21 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]could LeBron and Gobert have won a championship this past year instead of LeBron + AD? No way.
That is just way too confident about something no one actually knows.
I
think they could have won.
You
think they would not have.
No one can know more certainly than that.
(12-21-2020, 01:30 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]psi
Pterodactyl Signal Investigation?
(12-21-2020, 01:33 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]That is just way too confident about something no one actually knows.
I think they could have won.
You think they would not have.
No one can know more certainly than that.
Can you give them some credit? They aren't winning a championship without both of those guys. This whole thread is like a circular argument. I realize you love Gobert despite the fact he can't create his own offense and has no offense really whatsoever besides dunks. I just can't get anywhere close to the idea that this is a top 10, max player. The Jazz were backed into a corner. He is not going to elevate them to a championship.
(12-21-2020, 01:15 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe I've contributed to you having to think that. My apologies, pal. I'll try to read more thoughtfully.
I often think I haven't contributed enough of that. My bad IGT, I'll definitely step up not reading your posts with any thought.
I'm honestly imagining this thread as a bunch of us in a sports bar arguing over this. It's pretty entertaining if you think of it that way.
(12-21-2020, 04:42 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I'll definitely step up not reading your posts with any thought
Were you not or are saying that you will or won't read his posts with any or some thought?
:-P
is you is, or is you aint
(12-21-2020, 04:45 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Were you not or are saying that you will or won't read his posts with any or some thought?
I wasn't saying that I was going to or not read those posts with some or any thought. I'm illiterate.
(12-21-2020, 04:55 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]is you is, or is you aint
Yes
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/gxFlhdWWppl4I/giphy.gif)