i love Whitmore for Dallas. i think he is the second best guy they could get on this team besides Vic. (Walker might have an argument here too). I wouldn't wait on him being available at 10. i am going to Atlanta and offering this trade
Davis, Bullock and Green for #15, Collins and Capela. the cap savings for Atlanta are massive. $14.2M this year, $40M next year and $27M the third.
Then i take #15 and #10 as a package to go get Whitmore. He is a perfect fit next to Luka and Kyrie. Big, strong wing that can shoot and is an elite athlete. he isn't a playmaker but they don't need him to be. they need finishers. Also, his shoot first mentality is not a bad thing with Luka and Kyrie. We say Hardy was way more successful than Green because he was always ready to score. we need guys who are not afraid of Luka and don't want to just wait in the corner.
Then you can move THJ for a backup guard like Alec Burks or backup big like Grant Williams to fill out the roster.
Maybe you use THJ and the 2027 first to trade with the Hornets for Rozier and Richards.
Use the TMLE for whaterver position you need to fill the roster
stretch waive Javele
Luka/ Rozier/ Wright
Kyrie/ Hardy/
Whitmore/ Holiday/ Lawson
Maxi/ Collins/ Morris
Capela/ Richards/ Powell/
(06-22-2023, 05:25 AM)juanc Wrote: [ -> ]You simply can't be Matrix without the defensive instincts. But you can easly be Jaxon Hayes, that's exactly what the Mavs need!
You said that before, but if there is ohe thing I don´t doubt it´s his defensive instincts and his effort on every play. We must be watching different players.
Anyway my board as opposed to what I think will happen:
1. Wembanyama
2. Henderson
3. Miller
4. Hendricks
5. Amen Thompson
6. Walker
7. Dick
8. Black
9. Ausar Thompson
10. Sensabaugh
11. Lively
12. Hawkins
I want absolutely nothing to do with Whitmore after hearing his bad workout reports. Raw and no work ethic. Bad combo. If it comes down Whitmore, Wallace, Coulibaly or Ausar Thomspon, I´ll either pick Dick or trade down a few times and get Miller, Sensabaugh, Whitehead and Vukcevic. 16 +28 from Utah, then 16 for 21+22 with Nets and buy a 2nd from the Hornets.
Not buying the Bilal hype either. He's basically drawing attention, because he´s playing on the same team as Wembanyama. There is upside I agree, but if he doesn´t learn to shoot, he´s full blown Ntilikina. Mavs can´t gamble on that. I´m not feeling Cason Wallace either. I know the Kentucky guard thing, but there is something about him that rubs me the wrong way. I kind of think he plays small and that his shooting won´t translate at the next level.
(06-22-2023, 08:03 AM)Mavs32 Wrote: [ -> ]i love Whitmore for Dallas. i think he is the second best guy they could get on this team besides Vic. (Walker might have an argument here too). I wouldn't wait on him being available at 10. i am going to Atlanta and offering this trade
Davis, Bullock and Green for #15, Collins and Capela.
We literally HAVE to wait until 10.
And there is zero way we can enforce a trade that is made before then. Atlanta could easily back out of the deal if the player they want is gone and we can back out if a player that we love is still available.
(06-22-2023, 10:16 AM)MFFL Wrote: [ -> ]We literally HAVE to wait until 10.
And there is zero way we can enforce a trade that is made before then. Atlanta could easily back out of the deal if the player they want is gone and we can back out if a player that we love is still available.
I think you misunderstood the trade. we are trading players only to Atlanta and they are giving their big contracts and #15. then you have #15 & #10 to package for Whitmore.
if for some reason you think Whitmore will fall to #10 you can stay there and still have #15 in your pocket. if you think he won't slide past Indiana for example, you can then trade the two picks to move up to #7
Whitmore seems redundant to Hardy and too small to guard the 4. The Mavs will not have filled either of their two needs. I’ve also heard his hand measurements are so small that no comparable player has ever truly been a success. It’s kind of a weird stat (also used for QBs), but I can see how small hands could be a negative. But if he’s the no doubt best BPA in the Mav’s estimation, they should take him, even though they’d still need to find a player who can rebound and one who can guard a big wing. I wouldn’t package multiple picks to move up for him though.
Mavs have to keep the pick if Whitmore is at 10. He has the size to play right away and has too much upside at a critical position to pass on. Tremendous athleticism with lack of feel gives me some DSJ vibes but Whitmore only needs to defend and finish for this team.
G Kyrie Green
F Luka Whitmore
C tbd
Dallas would still have the classic combo of a first ('27), a young player with upside (Hardy) and (semi)expiring salary to deal. Plus THJ, Kleber, Powell, Wood are rotation players who may have some value elsewhere.
EDIT: I realize Luka is the point guard. My point in noting the positions above is more about size. Green can (in theory) guard the opponent's best guard and Whitmore has the size to guard elite wings.
(06-22-2023, 10:45 AM)Mavs32 Wrote: [ -> ]I think you misunderstood the trade. we are trading players only to Atlanta and they are giving their big contracts and #15. then you have #15 & #10 to package for Whitmore.
if for some reason you think Whitmore will fall to #10 you can stay there and still have #15 in your pocket. if you think he won't slide past Indiana for example, you can then trade the two picks to move up to #7
Oh
I thought you forgot the #10.
I don't think Atlanta would make an offer like that. It's pretty one sided in our favor.
(06-22-2023, 11:00 AM)MFFL Wrote: [ -> ]Oh
I thought you forgot the #10.
I don't think Atlanta would make an offer like that. It's pretty one sided in our favor.
its the massive cap savings and the asset of Green. i think they are gonna have to dump Collins.
7 hours before the draft, final thought unless there is a trade in next few trades.
BPA should be role of thumb here, don't pass on a player because of "fit" get the best talent and figure it later.
At 10, I think Wallace & Kobe are best talents outside of top 9, I talked about Wallace before and Kobe seems like a guy who will be good scorer.
Dick is someone you know what you get in as a role player/solid starter. Lively is someone I am neutral at
At the end, I just hope we have done our work and make a pick that will make us proud.
(06-22-2023, 11:00 AM)MFFL Wrote: [ -> ]Oh
I thought you forgot the #10.
I don't think Atlanta would make an offer like that. It's pretty one sided in our favor.
Of course Atlanta would. That's a no-brainer.
However, I wouldn't package 10+15 for Whitmore. He's not generational. Just sit n' pick.
I am struggling with the Whitmore lovefest. He can't shoot, can't distribute and not an elite defender. He is referred to as a ball stopper on offense and this quote is a huge turn off "I just don’t love on-ball players that don’t read the game well and [don’t] make others better". He sounds like a taller DSJ.
I also don't get the interest in Dick. If the goal was to maximize asset value in three years, then maybe he makes most sense, but for a team with many holes, and all of them defense related, it seems crazy to spend one of our few and biggest assets on a defensively challenged player.
(06-22-2023, 11:22 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I am struggling with the Whitmore lovefest. He can't shoot, can't distribute and not an elite defender. He is referred to as a ball stopper on offense and this quote is a huge turn off "I just don’t love on-ball players that don’t read the game well and [don’t] make others better". He sounds like a taller DSJ.
I also don't get the interest in Dick. If the goal was to maximize asset value in three years, then maybe he makes most sense, but for a team with many holes, and all of them defense related, it seems crazy to spend one of our few and biggest assets on a defensively challenged player.
The lovefest with Whitmore is the falling star syndrome. 2 days ago he was forbidden fruit, and we had not shot at him.
Now all of a sudden he may slip and be available. He doesn't fill an immediate need but his type of athleticism is something we've never really had.
I think his ceiling is really high and his floor is really low. I think it's worth the gamble at #10.
(06-22-2023, 11:22 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I am struggling with the Whitmore lovefest. He can't shoot, can't distribute and not an elite defender. He is referred to as a ball stopper on offense and this quote is a huge turn off "I just don’t love on-ball players that don’t read the game well and [don’t] make others better". He sounds like a taller DSJ.
I also don't get the interest in Dick. If the goal was to maximize asset value in three years, then maybe he makes most sense, but for a team with many holes, and all of them defense related, it seems crazy to spend one of our few and biggest assets on a defensively challenged player.
All may be true. Maybe his crazy athleticism hides the fact that he is not a great "feel" basketball player. I have no idea why he is dropping, if he really is. I thought there would be no way he fell to 10 though. Something else?
You also have to remember he is one of the younger prospects in this draft and is still 18. He, like most of these guys, are not close to being finished products. He also went to Villanova where typically there is excellent culture. This year they had a new coach and it appears the culture was not as strong. I think the previous coach would have handled the situation better. Not saying the new coach is bad, but those are tough shoes to fill.
I think him reaching #10 is unlikely. I could totally see Rick C want Hendricks over him though. But Washington and Utah are really quiet. I think Anthony Black probably goes to one of those two. But Washington has nothing really to lose. Taking the hometown kid might be the gamble they can take and also bring some good press. We will see.
[Jake Fischer] “…Dallas could send the No. 10 pick to Atlanta for that No. 15 selection depending on which players are available. The Mavericks, though, could defy expectations and stay at No. 10 if Villanova product Cam Whitmore or UCF forward Taylor Hendricks slips to that selection.”
(06-22-2023, 11:28 AM)Nowitzki Way Wrote: [ -> ]The lovefest with Whitmore is the falling star syndrome. 2 days ago he was forbidden fruit, and we had not shot at him.
Now all of a sudden he may slip and be available.
I never said how much I didn´t like him, cause he was always projected 5th.
Ultimately I think this all comes down to who is available at 10. I´m not opposed to trading down at all, if the right player(s) is not there. But don´t do dumb trades just for the sake of doing dumb trades. Unfortunately they already missed the trick with the Pacers picks. Maybe the Hornets remain an option or even Portland #23, if they go win now. I´d easily give up Bullock for a shot at Miller, Sensabaugh, Whitehead or Vukcevic.
(06-22-2023, 11:37 AM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: [ -> ][Jake Fischer] “…Dallas could send the No. 10 pick to Atlanta for that No. 15 selection depending on which players are available. The Mavericks, though, could defy expectations and stay at No. 10 if Villanova product Cam Whitmore or UCF forward Taylor Hendricks slips to that selection.”
Breaking news. Mavs could keep or trade pick. If they don´t trade the pick, they liked the player more than the trade offers. If they trade the pick they liked the trade offer more than the available players. They might or might not have gotten their top target after the trade down. There is also a small chance they trade the pick for a future pick.
I have it on very good authority, insider information that one of these things will happen 100%.
Even they did wind up with Whitmore though, I think it opens up even more short term questions than drafting someone like Lively. At least with Lively, I think he will be able to play 20 or so minutes and at least be an improvement on defense that we had last year. Although I would expect some rough moments.
If we drafted Whitmore, I think we are still lacking a finishing 4 and 5. How would we fill those remaining spots? Maxi can fill in, but I want to get away from counting on him with heavy minutes. I think with our resources we can find one, but two is going to be challenging imo.
(06-22-2023, 11:46 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Breaking news. Mavs could keep or trade pick. If they don´t trade the pick, they liked the player more than the trade offers. If they trade the pick they liked the trade offer more than the available players. They might or might not have gotten their top target after the trade down. There is also a small chance they trade the pick for a future pick.
I have it on very good authority, insider information that one of these things will happen 100%.
Don´t forget that no matter what happens. Whoever they get was the target all along. Number one on their draft board.
It's going to be hard to swallow if they take Dick.
(06-22-2023, 11:56 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Don´t forget that no matter what happens. Whoever they get was the target all along. Number one on their draft board.
That's true of every team, though.
The one time I really paid heed to what someone said after a draft was when Nellie said after the '98 draft, "This (Nowitzki) is a major, major piece for us." Pretty strong words for a 9th pick. And of course he was right.