(05-18-2023, 07:08 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]Look at Wiseman, Kuminga, and Moody in Golden State. Three high draft picks who have contributed very little in the regular season and absolutely nothing in their playoff runs. Rookies get superglued to the bench come playoff time. The Warriors were fortunate to already have a championship caliber roster. Dallas won't be able to overcome a similar draft mistake.
Well...
Considering the Mavs have DP and McGee at C, I would think Wiseman and Kuminga would have made far better contributions if they were with the Mavs.
And it would have been enough to propel them to the play-offs.
If you have Hendricks, Walker and even the very raw Lively, I would wager they get some burn over what the Mavs rolled out at C last season.
I'm okay with a trade down, even if it means a minor upgrade coupled with unloading some bad contracts, but if someone like Hendricks, Walker, Whitmore is at 10, Mavs need to keep the pick. The ideal scenario for me is a trade down for Lively and unload a couple of bad contracts and get a rotation piece.
(05-18-2023, 07:08 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]
Look at Wiseman, Kuminga, and Moody in Golden State. Three high draft picks who have contributed very little in the regular season and absolutely nothing in their playoff runs. Rookies get superglued to the bench come playoff time.
How about you look at Curry, Thompson, Green, Looney and Poole. Tell us how they landed in Golden State? Was it free agency? A trade?
Quote:loki
The Warriors were fortunate to already have a championship caliber roster. Dallas won't be able to overcome a similar draft mistake. It's unicorn or bust if they keep the pick, and bust is far more likely.
Yes fortunate indeed.
(05-18-2023, 11:19 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]How about you look at Curry, Thompson, Green, Looney and Poole. Tell us how they landed in Golden State? Was it free agency? A trade?
Yes fortunate indeed.
Only Curry and Thompson seem somewhat relevant as they were lottery picks. However, the Warriors back then were in the middle of a multi-year tank with no core to build around. Obviously you build through the draft in that situation.
This isn't comparable to the situation Golden State was in when they took Wiseman/Kuminga/Moody or where the Mavs are now.
(05-18-2023, 07:08 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]Edit: Just looked up Christian Braun's numbers in the playoffs. 2.7 ppg in 13 minutes. If this is what Dallas gets out of the 10th pick next year, we will be wishing Luka well in his future endeavors.
My point is that he is contributing on a MUCH better roster than ours. Do you think someone of his talent wouldn't have an even bigger role on this roster? The idea that we're trading the pick is that we're really close to putting a contender together, they may be able to pull it off and add two starting front court players that fit the bill and bring us back into relevancy but based on that team last year and the new cba it may be better to start developing talent instead of continuing to mortgage the future.
I'm usually pro flipping picks if you have someone like Luka and Kyrie for all of the reasons that you're mentioning but this team doesn't really need some all star proven vet anyway, it needs wing defense, rim protection and rebounding. Those are things you could get from a rookie pretty early on.
(05-19-2023, 11:53 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]My point is that he is contributing on a MUCH better roster than ours. Do you think someone of his talent wouldn't have an even bigger role on this roster? The idea that we're trading the pick is that we're really close to putting a contender together, they may be able to pull it off and add two starting front court players that fit the bill and bring us back into relevancy but based on that team last year and the new cba it may be better to start developing talent instead of continuing to mortgage the future.
I'm usually pro flipping picks if you have someone like Luka and Kyrie for all of the reasons that you're mentioning but this team doesn't really need some all star proven vet anyway, it needs wing defense, rim protection and rebounding. Those are things you could get from a rookie pretty early on.
I would have higher hopes than 4-5 points per game if we kept our pick. But as long as that player could be effective for 20-25 minutes a night that would be fine. Devin Vassell averaged 5 points as a rookie and 12 points his second year. Trey Murphy was 5 points as a rookie and 14 points last year. So, would I take a pick who average 5-7 points as a rookie but turned into a really nice part in a year from now....yes, I think I would.
Now this could be argued that these are just two of a few and a lot of these picks are still trying to figure things out. That is fair too.
(05-19-2023, 02:41 PM)khaled1987 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/...1055551488
He is an elite shooter. I feel pretty confident in that. The question is he willing to get dirty and grind and earn and win minutes. He needs to forget that he was the second coming just a few years ago. That is over now. Could he become a very good player? Sure, but it is going to take him to eat humble pie and really grind the next few years. I did like seeing him smile and interact with the other combine members.
https://twitter.com/MavsDraft/status/165...2672074756
LOL he mentions Dallas pick likely paired with Bertans and McGee to bring in immediate help. Unbelievable....need to devalue the 10th pick to move two guys your new front office targeted. One as your MLE and the other because he would be easier to move than KP. If that is their thinking...I am out.
(05-19-2023, 11:53 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]My point is that he is contributing on a MUCH better roster than ours. Do you think someone of his talent wouldn't have an even bigger role on this roster? The idea that we're trading the pick is that we're really close to putting a contender together, they may be able to pull it off and add two starting front court players that fit the bill and bring us back into relevancy but based on that team last year and the new cba it may be better to start developing talent instead of continuing to mortgage the future.
I'm usually pro flipping picks if you have someone like Luka and Kyrie for all of the reasons that you're mentioning but this team doesn't really need some all star proven vet anyway, it needs wing defense, rim protection and rebounding. Those are things you could get from a rookie pretty early on.
He might have a bigger role, or Kidd might play Ntilikina over him like he did to Hardy. Tough to say.
Personally I see the Mavs as a 5-6 seed talent wise. I don't think they are as bad as last year's record indicates, and they weren't as good as the conference finals appearance led many to believe either. If they can make one big addition this offseason and eventually follow it up with another DFS-caliber starter, they could be right back in contention.
I agree with the needs you listed. That's why I see Anunoby as the most sensible target (best wing defender in the league). If he's not available, look for a Capela or Turner type. Could a rookie help do some of the same things? Maybe so, but not at an elite level right from the start.
(05-19-2023, 04:03 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/MavsDraft/status/165...2672074756
LOL he mentions Dallas pick likely paired with Bertans and McGee to bring in immediate help. Unbelievable....need to devalue the 10th pick to move two guys your new front office targeted. One as your MLE and the other because he would be easier to move than KP. If that is their thinking...I am out.
I don't see it as devaluing the pick depending on exactly who you trade for. The salaries would basically be cancelled out by the contract Dallas receives.
(05-19-2023, 03:50 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]He is an elite shooter. I feel pretty confident in that. The question is he willing to get dirty and grind and earn and win minutes. He needs to forget that he was the second coming just a few years ago. That is over now. Could he become a very good player? Sure, but it is going to take him to eat humble pie and really grind the next few years. I did like seeing him smile and interact with the other combine members.
I'm out on Bates. At one point I thought he might make a good buy low option. But I'm not even buying low at this point. If he is a UFA okay but otherwise I don't waste draft capital or developmental time on him.
I watched him every possession at NBA combine. He does nothing to impact the game besides shoot. He basically camped out at the arc, calling for the ball which his teammates rarely passed to him. I think his upside on the Mavs would be basically Bertans with more ball handling or a floor spacing bench PF with no defense or rebounding.
He doesn't know how to move with out the ball or play off the ball. On the defensive end he would do nothing to help the Mavs and gets bullied often due to his slight frame. He lacks athleticism as seen by his verticle which limits his potential on the defensive end.
Furthermore, I didnt see him help once defensively by sinking down and use his length to contest any shots by his man on potential kickouts. He put in little to zero effort in playing defense or to attempting to rebound.
Moreover, I don't think his teammates like him. If you notice their body language around him they just mostly ignored that he was even there. There seems to be some attitude issues there.
All together I'm out.
(05-19-2023, 04:39 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see it as devaluing the pick depending on exactly who you trade for. The salaries would basically be cancelled out by the contract Dallas receives.
Should be pretty hard to find two contracts that are equally bad as McGee’s and Bertans’ and of comparable size. Right now neither one is offering more than minimum type production (maybe not even that) while getting paid $25+M combined.
So disagree there. Packaging #10 with these two guys should limit pretty harshly what you can expect in return. I’m not even sure the pick is enough to dump these two for expirings.
(05-19-2023, 05:24 PM)JamesConway912 Wrote: [ -> ]Should be pretty hard to find two contracts that are equally bad as McGee’s and Bertans’ and of comparable size. Right now neither one is offering more than minimum type production (maybe not even that) while getting paid $25+M combined.
So disagree there. Packaging #10 with these two guys should limit pretty harshly what you can expect in return. I’m not even sure the pick is enough to dump these two for expirings.
There are tons of players with worse contracts. Bertans has $22m remaining and McGee a little less than $12m. You probably only need Bertans to match salaries in most trade scenarios. His production is not important because he is just salary filler. The value portion of the deal is #10 for Player X. The other team likely saves money unless the Mavs are trading for an expiring.
(05-19-2023, 04:03 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/MavsDraft/status/165...2672074756
LOL he mentions Dallas pick likely paired with Bertans and McGee to bring in immediate help. Unbelievable....need to devalue the 10th pick to move two guys your new front office targeted. One as your MLE and the other because he would be easier to move than KP. If that is their thinking...I am out.
Famous last words: Not even Cuban can be that dumb to trade a lottery pick to salary dump a guy that is a $2.4M annual stretch waive and a guy that is expiring in 12 months.
The fact that we even have to read such dumb sh*t, is a reflection on the reputation of this front office.
The Dallas Mavericks must do everything they can to get Olivier-Maxence Prosper. 6'8" , 7'1" wingspan. 1-5 on ball defending beast. Can be had in the second round. Perfect fit on our team.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUr6hBbBM-w