MavsBoard

(03-27-2021, 03:16 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Whoa nice reporting there. Thanks for consolidating all that!

Clearly, he prepared for a backup plan career as a beat writer if the play-by-play broadcasting career wasn't to be. Fortunately, he's living his dream, but it's nice to know he would've been successful as a reporter, too.

(03-27-2021, 02:33 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, but that's my whole point. 

Yes, everything around Wright has been questionable. Pretty clear that at least the initial signing was an error, and you can make an argument that other links in that chain were rough, too. 

But, if you start your judgement from where they were 48 hours ago, with all of that in the past, this deal is fine to me. Good, even. I do think Redick has a chance to help, and I actually think Melli has the potential to help more than Johnson or Iwundu, who was (and is, imo) an intriguing prospect, but plays behind THJ, DFS, Richardson AND was in the way of Green. Whatever his future is, I don't think it's here in Dallas. 

Judging this deal based solely on this deal, I like it. I agree you can argue that trading the pick forward might've ultimately been a better option, and maybe time will tell. I don't view that door closing as some crazy decision that's going to haunt the team. There have been times that I HAVE felt that way about minor moves like this, but not in this case. 

Reasonable people are free to disagree, but my goodness the sky has been falling for some of you lately. The time for that attitude, imo, was in 2011, when Cuban wiped his ass with a Championship team. He paid the price by being completely irrelevant for the next SEVERAL seasons. But now? They're about to make the playoffs for the 2nd season in a row. This is the beginning of something good, hopefully. Sure, we're impatient and that's ok. But it's unrealistic to expect everything they do to work out exactly as they hope. NOTHING they could've done over the past 2-3 years would have them in contention now. The reality is that it's going to be AWHILE until they get there. 

I'm with @"omahen"...it would be super if we could all just relax and try to ENJOY the journey a little.

I think of it as 2 separate arguments. The one you're arguing is this one trade singled out. The one others are arguing is the long term one of is this a good FO. I think both arguments are fine, but you can't change the long term argument into the short term one and vise versa. It mucks things up and everyone talks over eachother and you get to where this is right now. 

To me, the discussion is good both ways cause you have to try to keep the FO honest (whatever that means for a message board community) and every individual move has to stand on their own two feet too. If you're playing the long term argument card, battling it out on the individual merits of each individual move makes sense, otherwise you have too much short term memory syndrome of those who will forget all these little details that would have to be hashed out later with less clarity.

(03-27-2021, 03:09 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if this is helpful, but here is what I have been able to gather as far as reporting on the transaction. Sources reported are primarily Mark Stein, Donnie, and Rick. 

The Mavs did not want to trade any of their "top nine" rotation players at the TDL, unless they could acquire a player who (1) was clearly better than whoever he was replacing, and (2) could be integrated immediately (i.e., would not require a period of chemistry adjustment). James Johnson+ did not enable them to acquire such a player, although they tried. 

They also tried to get in as a third team on some bigger deals, but nothing came through. Donnie was still very anxious to use James Johnson's contract for something. They were also still trying to work on getting George Hill. JJ Redick came up very, very late in the process, and there was no time to study his medicals. Ultimately, Donnie thought it was better to take a chance on Redick being able to help the team in the playoffs than to keep the two guys who were already out of the rotation and the pick. 

Donnie is aware that Redick was hoping to be bought out and play where he wanted (said to be Brooklyn), but thinks that, notwithstanding that, he is positive about coming to Dallas. Luka and Dirk have texted him. Redick already has a connection with Casey via USA Basketball, and they will work on the medical issues. Did not have a timetable at last report, but the issue is that a non-surgical procedure on his heel was done, I believe about three weeks ago, and when/if he makes a recovery from that. 

The team did not want to make a major move unless it was clearly warranted at this time, because they were afraid it would set them back too much this season if they had to take a step back before new acquisitions were integrated. However, they expect to be "very aggressive" in the off-season.

Thank you for breaking that down.  Appreciate it.

I had not heard the George Hill talk.   I wonder how those conversations went.  Hill basically went for two second round picks.   I believe he is owed 10 million next year.   I wonder if we were a backup on that plan or we couldn't put a trade together.    I am guessing if it was Johnson, we would have needed to take back more salary.  Maybe that was the rub and OKC just found a cleaner deal?

If we traded for Hill, that would have taken us out of the bigger free agents this offseason, outside of sign and trades, right?

It´s just another minor blemish. The Mavs only succeed, when it matters. They´ll get the big summer free agent acquisition right....like the last 10 summers, so stop whining about not having any draft picks.  Who needs them. Nobody.

(03-27-2021, 03:19 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I think of it as 2 separate arguments. The one you're arguing is this one trade singled out. The one others are arguing is the long term one of is this a good FO. I think both arguments are fine, but you can't change the long term argument into the short term one and vise versa. It mucks things up and everyone talks over eachother and you get to where this is right now. 

To me, the discussion is good both ways cause you have to try to keep the FO honest (whatever that means for a message board community) and every individual move has to stand on their own two feet too. If you're playing the long term argument card, battling it out on the individual merits of each individual move makes sense, otherwise you have too much short term memory syndrome of those who will forget all these little details that would have to be hashed out later with less clarity.

I totally agree with all of this. It's just that those long term argument folks have a way of turning every conversation into the same argument, and while I get the point you're making about that, it's BORING. 

You think I don't want to hammer the "should've traded KP at the deadline" conversation into this board today? I absolutely believe they should have, and I absolutely think that's the only long term topic that actually matters right now, but out of respect to those around who I believe already know where I stand on that situation, I resist.

(03-27-2021, 03:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]You think I don't want to hammer the "should've traded KP at the deadline" conversation into this board today? I absolutely believe they should have, and I absolutely think that's the only long term topic that actually matters right now, but out of respect to those around who I believe already know where I stand on that situation, I resist.

I wish you would, it would be a better conversation than this one......

(03-27-2021, 03:09 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if this is helpful, but here is what I have been able to gather as far as reporting on the transaction. Sources reported are primarily Mark Stein, Donnie, and Rick. 

The Mavs did not want to trade any of their "top nine" rotation players at the TDL, unless they could acquire a player who (1) was clearly better than whoever he was replacing, and (2) could be integrated immediately (i.e., would not require a period of chemistry adjustment). James Johnson+ did not enable them to acquire such a player, although they tried. 

They also tried to get in as a third team on some bigger deals, but nothing came through. Donnie was still very anxious to use James Johnson's contract for something. They were also still trying to work on getting George Hill. JJ Redick came up very, very late in the process, and there was no time to study his medicals. Ultimately, Donnie thought it was better to take a chance on Redick being able to help the team in the playoffs than to keep the two guys who were already out of the rotation and the pick. 

Donnie is aware that Redick was hoping to be bought out and play where he wanted (said to be Brooklyn), but thinks that, notwithstanding that, he is positive about coming to Dallas. Luka and Dirk have texted him. Redick already has a connection with Casey via USA Basketball, and they will work on the medical issues. Did not have a timetable at last report, but the issue is that a non-surgical procedure on his heel was done, I believe about three weeks ago, and when/if he makes a recovery from that. 

The team did not want to make a major move unless it was clearly warranted at this time, because they were afraid it would set them back too much this season if they had to take a step back before new acquisitions were integrated. However, they expect to be "very aggressive" in the off-season.

Man, I read this and kinda thought...they made a panic move. Again not a very detrimental one, but a panic move none-the-less.

(03-27-2021, 03:28 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Man, I read this and kinda thought...they made a panic move. Again not a very detrimental one, but a panic move none-the-less.

You could paint it that way. I don't think "last minute" equates to "panic" but it's possible that some of the scrambling that occurred when SA made the deal a bit worse. 

But, I don't think the entire thing was a panic move because they DO need shooting, and they DID need someone to take the role in which Burke seems unable to flourish. 

If we're counting MBT mistakes, I'd hit them harder for the Burke signing than I would for this trade (I was a major proponent of it at the time, too). It, too, is a minor inconvenience, because it's such a small dollar amount next season, but I think they believed he would fight with Brunson for a major role, and that is SO not what has happened.

(03-27-2021, 03:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I totally agree with all of this. It's just that those long term argument folks have a way of turning every conversation into the same argument, and while I get the point you're making about that, it's BORING. 

You think I don't want to hammer the "should've traded KP at the deadline" conversation into this board today? I absolutely believe they should have, and I absolutely think that's the only long term topic that actually matters right now, but out of respect to those around who I believe already know where I stand on that situation, I resist.

I'm with you on KP IF he goes down with a rest of the season injury between now and the end of their season. I want him at the most peak value we can get him to though because I think he has a lot of basketball left to be played and there's still a chance he reaches his potential.

---

(03-27-2021, 03:32 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think "last minute" equates to "panic" but it's possible that some of the scrambling that occurred when SA made the deal a bit worse.

I think the last minute and not enough time to study the medicals are the two points that stuck out to me as panic.

(03-27-2021, 03:28 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Man, I read this and kinda thought...they made a panic move. Again not a very detrimental one, but a panic move none-the-less

That thought went through my mind, too, but I don't think "panic" is a label I would stick on it. 


More of a case where they were faced with a fast-approaching deadline, they had to make a decision based on incomplete information, and they made what they believed was the best decision they could on the information they had. 

Donnie was looking to do something that would help (or at least might help) the team THIS season. Based on the information presented to him, neither Johnson nor Iwundu was expected to be part of the rotation in the playoffs. So he used the second round pick to make a move that would at least have a chance of providing an additional tool in the playoffs. 

Given the circumstances, I'm still okay with the move, although I agree that the injury takes the shine off, at least to a degree.

(03-27-2021, 03:39 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I think the last minute and not enough time to study the medicals are the two points that stuck out to me as panic.

Right, but the alternative was to let Johnson expire, which I promise you would've resulted in even more vitriol vomiting into this board today. You think people are mad about losing a 2nd? Just imagine what this place would be like if Johnson was still a Maverick. 

At some point, for me, it's like "what world do you people live in?" I mean, I'm as demanding as the next fan, but it's not like this stuff is easy, and it's not like a single person here is qualified to do half of what Donnie does every day.

What’s the talk of the George Hill attempt? I must’ve missed that part...

(03-27-2021, 03:53 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]That thought went through my mind, too, but I don't think "panic" is a label I would stick on it. 


More of a case where they were faced with a fast-approaching deadline, they had to make a decision based on incomplete information, and they made what they believed was the best decision they could on the information they had. 

Donnie was looking to do something that would help (or at least might help) the team THIS season. Based on the information presented to him, neither Johnson nor Iwundu was expected to be part of the rotation in the playoffs. So he used the second round pick to make a move that would at least have a chance of providing an additional tool in the playoffs. 

Given the circumstances, I'm still okay with the move, although I agree that the injury takes the shine off, at least to a degree.

For sure, and it's not like they traded Harden for Oladipo and some probable bad picks. I mean, if the second has to be included, there is the option to walk away and just cut your losses. 

Not totally sure JJ is gonna be the player some are thinking he will be, then again, he may surprise others too. That's why I take the best approach of wait and see. I think he is worth it if he helps us get a game or 2 in the playoffs, lopsided (our way) if he helps us get out of the first round. If he never shows up, or shows up but can't integrate fast enough and is a non-factor in the playoffs, it was a bad thing...still, not detrimental, but bad.

(03-27-2021, 03:58 PM)SamStetz Wrote: [ -> ]What’s the talk of the George Hill attempt? I must’ve missed that part...

It was first time I heard it today. But if I remember correctly, Johnson was traded to us from OKC, which means we couldn't send him back. Without him, Mavs would need to send a couple of players to OKC, roughly Iwundu, Burke and WCS. Philly only sent expiring salary, so who knows what would be the Mavs price with those Burke and Iwundu contracts.

(03-27-2021, 04:02 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Not totally sure JJ is gonna be the player some are thinking he will be, then again, he may surprise others too. That's why I take the best approach of wait and see. I think he is worth it if he helps us get a game or 2 in the playoffs, lopsided (our way) if he helps us get out of the first round. If he never shows up, or shows up but can't integrate fast enough and is a non-factor in the playoffs, it was a bad thing...still, not detrimental, but bad.

So fair and thoughtful here. 

(03-27-2021, 03:19 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I had not heard the George Hill talk.   I wonder how those conversations went.  Hill basically went for two second round picks.   I believe he is owed 10 million next year.   I wonder if we were a backup on that plan or we couldn't put a trade together.    I am guessing if it was Johnson, we would have needed to take back more salary.  Maybe that was the rub and OKC just found a cleaner deal?

If we traded for Hill, that would have taken us out of the bigger free agents this offseason, outside of sign and trades, right?

Sorry, I didn't hear any elaboration on the George Hill talks. Was mentioned in the context of reporting that they were actively pursuing this and other deals, that they were particularly interested in Hill, and when those deals disappeared at the eleventh hour, this Redick opportunity came up, giving them a quick decision to make. 


I think the Hill info confirms that they see additional playmaking as a priority. They ended up getting a shooter, which they viewed as an even higher priority.

If I hear anything else on Hill, I'll try to get back.

(03-27-2021, 04:05 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]If I hear anything else on Hill, I'll try to get back.

The life some have. We can READ internet news, Followil HEARs it directly from the man. So jealus of you

(03-27-2021, 04:07 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]The life some have. We can READ internet news, Followil HEARs it directly from the man. So jealus of you

(03-27-2021, 04:02 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]For sure, and it's not like they traded Harden for Oladipo and some probable bad picks.

Hahaha. 

I mean, if the second has to be included, there is the option to walk away and just cut your losses. 

That was apparently the other option. They could have let Johnson expire, kept Iwundu, and tried to use the second round pick in the draft. They made the decision that getting a guy who might be able to help in the playoffs was likely greater than whatever they might have been able to get for the pick in the draft. One could reasonably argue that either way, but I don't quarrel with the assessment. 

Not totally sure JJ is gonna be the player some are thinking he will be, then again, he may surprise others too. That's why I take the best approach of wait and see. I think he is worth it if he helps us get a game or 2 in the playoffs, lopsided (our way) if he helps us get out of the first round. If he never shows up, or shows up but can't integrate fast enough and is a non-factor in the playoffs, it was a bad thing...still, not detrimental, but bad.

Agree that we won't know how it all turned out until we see what, if anything, Redick is able to add. But in judging the decision that had to be made at the time, we can only consider the information that was available. Under the same facts and circumstances, I think most, if not all, front offices would have done this deal. 

I view this as mostly found money. If Redick can help the team, great! If it turns out he can't, it's not like the deal is making the team worse. They gave themselves a chance to get Luka some help in the playoffs, and that's about all you can ask for a second-round pick.

(03-27-2021, 04:07 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]The life some have. We can READ internet news, Followil HEARs it directly from the man. So jealus of you

For sure, the greatest bit going today!


BTW, anyone remember Cubanshairdresser? If I remember correctly that was pretty much confirmed to be Mark (edit: Followil that is). He stopped posting under that name some time ago (if indeed that was him).