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JJ can trade places at the end of the game for DFS when you need a reliable shooter who can hit a 3 at a great percentage and have to have a defender guard them so Luka has an easier time...

(03-25-2021, 04:25 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Ah, but that's a huge assumption! What if they already KNOW that they won't or can't re-sign Fournier?

Do you like him better than THJ? Because THEN, I can see the complaint. But I DON'T. Give me THJ, and I get how it might be ridiculous to go $20 million deep each on two new contracts for two versions of the same player.

This morning I posted my dream trades day where we ended up with Brogdon, Turner, and Fournier. Which I still believe could have happened if the Mavs were willing to move on from KP. If it were between Fournier and THJ in the offseason, I'd rather have Fournier, because he's a better ballhandler and playmaker. I loved the idea of having two very solid playmakers aside from Luka. JRich is a lot more impressive when he's the fourth-best playmaker rather than the third-best.

Fournier is much better than THJ.

(03-25-2021, 04:22 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, someone pointed out in the other thread that the price Boston paid was essentially two 2nd's and $17 million. That's a TON of money to eat just for a Fournier rental, imo. 

I know it's not fun to think of spending other people's money as an obstacle, but that's 100% how these dudes operate. Mark Cuban's days of lighting $17 million on fire seem to be behind us. I can't blame him, personally. As long as he is actually trying to make the team great through reasonable means, I'm ok with him not losing $100 million over the next 10 years the way he did over his first 10 years. It's not like I'm willing or able to pony up the extra cash.

Fish reported yesterday that Mavs did offer two seconds + JJ but Boston's deal was better (ie no salary bc of TPE)

(03-25-2021, 04:25 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]It's the other end of the court that they will suffer. I thought Dallas wanted to improve the defense? They have more than enough shooting. Doesn't move the needle to me, unless you're fine with 130-125 scores. 
.

You can't ever have enough shooting bc you have guys like DFS that can go really cold. JJ is a guy that you can put in when you need 3s to start going in. Also understand that guys feed off each other. Having a confident shooter like JJ to turn to is handy.

I am sure Donnie likes JJ as a poor man's Seth Curry. He is probably the most similar player I can picture (albeit an older, less good version) to Curry.

(03-25-2021, 04:29 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]I think you might be right. Not about the actual player but about the Mavs willingness to spend money. The best way to maximize the Mavs assets would have been trade for player x/ resign THJ/ resign Richardson/ use MLE but with Doncic´s max getting closer Cuban is not as willing to go over the cap (not to mention the luxury tax).

Mavs have been over the cap plenty so not sure what you mean by that. They would go into luxury tax for a star but there are penalties that make trading harder, you get a worse MLE and so on so it's not worth doing unless you are ready to lock in your team. Cubes has plenty of money I don't think that's an issue.

(03-25-2021, 04:14 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]Lets see if Redick actually shows up excited to play or he's too bummed about not ending up in the northeast.

He says that every year. He is fine.

(03-25-2021, 06:13 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs have been over the cap plenty so not sure what you mean by that. They would go into luxury tax for a star but there are penalties that make trading harder, you get a worse MLE and so on so it's not worth doing unless you are ready to lock in your team. Cubes has plenty of money I don't think that's an issue.

Thinking longterm. If the Mavs are close to the luxury tax line and add a lot of longterm salary they will be over the tax line when Luka gets his max. I think it is very likely that Cuban wants to avoid the tax as long as there are any doubts about the Mavs chances to contend.

(03-25-2021, 06:24 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Thinking longterm. If the Mavs are close to the luxury tax line and add a lot of longterm salary they will be over the tax line when Luka gets his max. I think it is very likely that Cuban wants to avoid the tax as long as there are any doubts about the Mavs chances to contend.

Right there is no reason to be over the tax or near it if you aren't a contender which sort of goes without saying. If Mavs found a third piece and it made sense to get near into in the tax for like 1 season I don't think he'd hesitate. You want to avoid penalties that come with the tax and avoid repeater penalties. It has nothing to do with being cheap.

What on earth did you all want with Fournier? He would just have been redundant here. With JRich and THJ we already have two SGs and Fournier is as a player way too similar to THJ.

(03-25-2021, 06:27 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Right there is no reason to be over the tax or near it if you aren't a contender which sort of goes without saying. If Mavs found a third piece and it made sense to get near into in the tax for like 1 season I don't think he'd hesitate. You want to avoid penalties that come with the tax and avoid repeater penalties. It has nothing to do with being cheap.

Don´t think I ever mentioned the word "cheap". More about longterm salary management. Luka´s max, Brunson´s new contract (if they want to keep him) and any potential future free agent signing.
I do think that Cuban is more hesitant to go all out with his money compared to his younger self but I think he will pay whatever it takes if the Mavs have proven that they can compete with the best. I mentioned in another thread. I think Ballmer is a good comparisation. Just like 00s Mark he is going all out to win a championship. Cuban is past that point. He wants to win but he is not going to burn 150m (Mavs rank 3rd all time in luxury tax) if the teams ceiling is a first or second round exit. Not to mention that the repeater tax rules are even worse these days.

(03-25-2021, 06:35 PM)Time Machine Dirk Wrote: [ -> ]What on earth did you all want with Fournier? He would just have been redundant here. With JRich and THJ we already have two SGs and Fournier is as a player way too similar to THJ.

For one he's better than THJ. Two, he would be additive so having another guy like THJ isn't the worst thing. Last year Curry was a good hedge to THJ's shooting. Odds are on any given night one of them would be shooting well. Mavs obviously wanted Fournier as they offered up two 2nds for him.

I think if THJ is significantly cheaper to sign next year than Fournier that would be the only advantage from my perspective.

None of Redick's previous stops have included a ton of initiation duties, but he is a threat to score out of the pick-and-roll. He has not ranked outside the 95th percentile of points scored per possession as the PnR ball-handler since 2016-17.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2938...e-deadline

(03-25-2021, 06:41 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]For one he's better than THJ. Two, he would be additive so having another guy like THJ isn't the worst thing. Last year Curry was a good hedge to THJ's shooting. Odds are on any given night one of them would be shooting well. Mavs obviously wanted Fournier as they offered up two 2nds for him.

I think if THJ is significantly cheaper to sign next year than Fournier that would be the only advantage from my perspective.

Sorry, but I cannot see much of a difference when comparing THJ's and Fournier's stats for this season. eFG%, 3pt%, ft% and ts%. Fournier seems to be a better passer though this could be by design. And he has a higher PER (15 vs 18). That's it. To me both players remain veeeeery similar.

Sure, we had Curry but he was often injured and we didn't have JRich last season. THJ, JRich AND Fournier would have been one minutes demanding SG too much tbh. Probably all of them wouldn't have been content with their role and their minutes then.

Regarding the offseason we can still see who of THJ and Fournier offers better value for the money they demand. I would keep THJ if he is slightly cheaper than Fournier.

(03-25-2021, 07:26 PM)Time Machine Dirk Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding the offseason we can still see who of THJ and Fournier offers better value for the money they demand. I would keep THJ if he is slightly cheaper than Fournier.

My take is that Hardaway is pretty significantly the better player, likely to be a little more expensive maybe, and that he would absolutely be my first choice of the two.

(03-25-2021, 07:26 PM)Time Machine Dirk Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry, but I cannot see much of a difference when comparing THJ's and Fournier's stats for this season. eFG%, 3pt%, ft% and ts%. Fournier seems to be a better passer though this could be by design. And he has a higher PER (15 vs 18). That's it. To me both players remain veeeeery similar.

Sure, we had Curry but he was often injured and we didn't have JRich last season. THJ, JRich AND Fournier would have been one minutes demanding SG too much tbh. Probably all of them wouldn't have been content with their role and their minutes then.

Regarding the offseason we can still see who of THJ and Fournier offers better value for the money they demand. I would keep THJ if he is slightly cheaper than Fournier.

Stats are fine but there is also watching them play and Fournier can handle the ball better and make better passes. All that being said Boston got him to keep him so we might be out on Fournier. I expect Kemba to be on the move somewhere next offseason.

(03-25-2021, 07:35 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]My take is that Hardaway is pretty significantly the better player, likely to be a little more expensive maybe, and that he would absolutely be my first choice of the two.

I really don't get how you can say that. Fournier is a better ball handler, passer and shooter. It's great that THJ has had two very good 3 point shooting years but even with that he is an average to below average 3 point shooter for his career. Fournier has been much more consistent from deep. He is just an all-around better offensive player.

(03-25-2021, 07:36 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Stats are fine but there is also watching them play and Fournier can handle the ball better and make better passes. All that being said Boston got him to keep him so we might be out on Fournier. I expect Kemba to be on the move somewhere next offseason.

Actually by eyetest I like THJ better because I like how hot he can get from 3 and he seems to be more explosive/faster than Fournier. (Although I rarely watched Orlando.)

But I wouldn't go as far as saying that THJ is clearly the better player as Killerleft just did.

(03-25-2021, 06:01 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Fournier is much better than THJ.

He is really not though.    IMHO, he is actually worse on defense because he isn't dialed in defense in half the time.     The Magic are my regionally televised team, and I watch more Magic games than any sane person should.       He doesn't handle the ball because he's particularly good at it or that he makes things happen, he handles the ball out of necessity because the Magic's PGs are straight up garbage and have been for years while the Mavs have Luka and Brunson.       We just spend all our time obsessing over our players short comings and don't particular care about other player's short comings ... particularly a prerenially non contending mid market team.   He went for 2 seconds for a reason.