(03-27-2021, 12:14 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]If Redick were to do that, then he should be barred from being able to sign anywhere else for the rest of the season. The NBA needs to crack down on players being able to hold franchises hostage.
I'll wait and see what happens. I don't think Redick would purposefully sitout since the Mavs are a playoff team and could use his services, but you never know.
I do believe it to be very unlikely. JJ also likes Mark if I recall correctly from listening to a couple of his podcasts. However, the injury might be something that keeps him away for quite some time and if he comes back for the last week or 2 of the season, how prepared will he be to make a difference in the playoffs? The currently injured part is also a reason we should have never needed to add a 2nd rounder (in fact, that asset SHOULD have been coming back to us because of that if anything!), regardless of how worthless it is.
(03-27-2021, 12:43 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]However, the injury might be something that keeps him away for quite some time and if he comes back for the last week or 2 of the season, how prepared will he be to make a difference in the playoffs?
This is the only potential legitimate gripe with the deal, imo. He'll be a pro and do everything in his power to help the team (in exchange for his full salary getting paid rather than leaving money on the table in a buyout) but if this injury situation goes too long, that would suck. We'll just have to hope for the best.
Spending a second round pick was stupid in the first place. The unknown timetable just make it worse.
Hindsight and all but the team would be better now and long term had we just gone Bey (18) - Bey (31) and Curry. We just keep trying to course correct the Wright while making ourselves worse in the short and long term.
(03-27-2021, 01:17 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Spending a second round pick was stupid in the first place.
For the life of me, I don't get this. They weren't going to be able to use it - they won't have the roster space. I mean, MAYBE they could've used it in a better trade over the summer, maybe not. This is the kind of trade you DO use a 2nd on, imo.
(03-27-2021, 01:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]For the life of me, I don't get this. They weren't going to be able to use it - they won't have the roster space. I mean, MAYBE they could've used it in a better trade over the summer, maybe not. This is the kind of trade you DO use a 2nd on, imo.
He's 36, on a bum foot and doesn't want to be here (that doesn't mean he will not be a pro and suit up for us once he's healthy). It's a squandered asset for someone that's going to play less than half a season for us, doesn't really raise the team's ceiling, and has zero long term value. You don't have to draft someone with a pick to make it a valuable resource. You can always trade it for a future second if you don't have the roster spots and the way NBA executives treat the value of picks, they are always useful ammunition for getting other deals done.
Using our expiring contracts to take on short term bad money (random example: Bledsoe) and acquiring additional assets in the process would have been the smart play. We just don't make smart moves. Boston uses their record setting TPE and two second round picks for Fournier. Look at what the Mavs did with their record setting TPE and the last three second round picks we've traded.
(03-27-2021, 01:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]For the life of me, I don't get this. They weren't going to be able to use it - they won't have the roster space. I mean, MAYBE they could've used it in a better trade over the summer, maybe not. This is the kind of trade you DO use a 2nd on, imo.
There's lots of things you can do at the draft instead of coming away with a player from the draft.
(03-27-2021, 01:40 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]There's lots of things you can do at the draft instead of coming away with a player from the draft.
Right, and it's possible that they could've included the pick in a better trade at that time, like I said above. But, only possible, and how much better?
This is a good deal that has potential to help, imo. I don't think it was an overpay at all, though I reserve the right to change my mind if the injury keeps him away for too long. That would certainly be a downer.
(03-27-2021, 01:37 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Using our expiring contracts to take on short term bad money (random example: Bledsoe) and acquiring additional assets in the process would have been the smart play.
They're just not in that mode right now. They don't believe that it's "the smart play." You and I don't have to agree, but securing our agreement isn't a hurdle they have to clear. I can dig long form debates over the team's overall approach, but I just don't get how THIS piddly little move, made under the pre-existing and easily attained knowledge that they likely wouldn't even consider something like the Bledsoe thing you describe above, gets people's feathers so up.
If they had held onto that 2nd, they absolutely would have included it in another trade over the summer. My strong instinct is that the same people who hate this trade would've hated that one, too. At some point, can't we just enjoy watching the team play with open minds?
(03-27-2021, 01:43 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]But, only possible, and how much better?
I think including it makes the trade imbalanced to NO side. Just like the pick included in the Curry trade was the same (in our favor).
How much better? We'll never know. My favorite thought on it is trading it for a second in the 22 draft where we can combine 3 picks to move up in that draft, or get a player we really like in a draft day trade.
The trade itself is close enough that I don't mind waiting it out to see the results before full judgement (after all, Followil himself likes the trade, so how can I poopoo it?). I also don't hate the trade at all. I think it was a good thought of a move, just more than it should have been, not in a detrimental way, but in a way none-the-less.
It´s pretty obvious that the Mavs did not care for minor pieces. Otherwise the Melli-Lyles swap would have been a deal breaker.
(03-27-2021, 01:48 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]They're just not in that mode right now. They don't believe that it's "the smart play." You and I don't have to agree, but securing our agreement isn't a hurdle they have to clear. I can dig long form debates over the team's overall approach, but I just don't get how THIS piddly little move, made under the pre-existing and easily attained knowledge that they likely wouldn't even consider something like the Bledsoe thing you describe above, gets people's feathers so up.
If they had held onto that 2nd, they absolutely would have included it in another trade. My strong instinct is that the same people who hate this trade would've hated that one, too. At some point, can't we just enjoy watching the team play with open minds?
Yeah, this constant whining doesn't contribute anything to discussions. It is just getting boring.
People - there was zero cap clearing moves made this TDL. What makes you think any asset was offered for our expirings? Why didn't Memphis, San Antonio and Cleveland move their large expiring contracts for assets? Their players are arguably better than Johnson. Why did they just waive their guys? I sure would like Mavs to use Johnson for an asset but it is quite obvious there was nothing on the table.
(03-27-2021, 02:08 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]It´s pretty obvious that the Mavs did not care for minor pieces.
One might say JJ is a minor piece.
To add - New York and OKC had cap space available and couldn't sell it.
(03-27-2021, 02:10 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, this constant whining doesn't contribute anything to discussions. It is just getting boring.
People - there was zero cap clearing moves made this TDL. What makes you think any asset was offered for our expirings? Why didn't Memphis, San Antonio and Cleveland move their large expiring contracts for assets? Their players are arguably better than Johnson. Why did they just waive their guys? I sure would like Mavs to use Johnson for an asset but it is quite obvious there was nothing on the table.
Don´t think that´s the case. The Mavs had the assets to outbid the Celtics or the Nuggets. Only deal that was out of reach was Vuc to Chicago. The MBT decided not to offer more. Also think that in some cases teams simply miss out because they aren´t involved in the inital trade talks. Otherwise most contenders with mediocre front court depth would have offered a matching contract and 1-2 2nds for Theis.
(03-27-2021, 01:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]For the life of me, I don't get this. They weren't going to be able to use it - they won't have the roster space. I mean, MAYBE they could've used it in a better trade over the summer, maybe not. This is the kind of trade you DO use a 2nd on, imo.
Disagree. For instance picks can be traded for future picks. Moves like that happen regularly in the Nba especially on draft night when teams move out of/into the draft depending on the availability of „their guy“.
Draft and stash is another, also better way than to just throw the asset out of the window.
No, this whole chain of draft pick-transactions around the Delon-acquisition was just plain bad asset management.
(03-27-2021, 02:19 PM)JamesConway Wrote: [ -> ]No, this whole chain of draft pick-transactions around the Delon-acquisition was just plain bad asset management.
Ok, but that's my whole point.
Yes, everything around Wright has been questionable. Pretty clear that at least the initial signing was an error, and you can make an argument that other links in that chain were rough, too.
But, if you start your judgement from where they were 48 hours ago, with all of that in the past, this deal is fine to me. Good, even. I do think Redick has a chance to help, and I actually think Melli has the potential to help more than Johnson or Iwundu, who was (and is, imo) an intriguing prospect, but plays behind THJ, DFS, Richardson AND was in the way of Green. Whatever his future is, I don't think it's here in Dallas.
Judging this deal based solely on this deal, I like it. I agree you can argue that trading the pick forward might've ultimately been a better option, and maybe time will tell. I don't view that door closing as some crazy decision that's going to haunt the team. There have been times that I HAVE felt that way about minor moves like this, but not in this case.
Reasonable people are free to disagree, but my goodness the sky has been falling for some of you lately. The time for that attitude, imo, was in 2011, when Cuban wiped his ass with a Championship team. He paid the price by being completely irrelevant for the next SEVERAL seasons. But now? They're about to make the playoffs for the 2nd season in a row. This is the beginning of something good, hopefully. Sure, we're impatient and that's ok. But it's unrealistic to expect everything they do to work out exactly as they hope. NOTHING they could've done over the past 2-3 years would have them in contention now. The reality is that it's going to be AWHILE until they get there.
I'm with @"omahen"...it would be super if we could all just relax and try to ENJOY the journey a little.
(03-27-2021, 02:18 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]The Mavs had the assets to outbid the Celtics or the Nuggets.
Perhaps they had. But pretty obvious Orlando considered Harris a bigger thing than Johnson, despite Johnson expiring. And Mavs didn't want to include one of core 7 to get Gordon. And I can understand that. In the Fournier case, who knows how many more picks would convince Orlando to sell to Dallas instead of Boston. Cap space Boston offered was something Dallas couldn't match. Orlando would be in tax with JJ salary on the roster!
I don't know if this is helpful, but here is what I have been able to gather as far as reporting on the transaction. Sources reported are primarily Mark Stein, Donnie, and Rick.
The Mavs did not want to trade any of their "top nine" rotation players at the TDL, unless they could acquire a player who (1) was clearly better than whoever he was replacing, and (2) could be integrated immediately (i.e., would not require a period of chemistry adjustment). James Johnson+ did not enable them to acquire such a player, although they tried.
They also tried to get in as a third team on some bigger deals, but nothing came through. Donnie was still very anxious to use James Johnson's contract for something. They were also still trying to work on getting George Hill. JJ Redick came up very, very late in the process, and there was no time to study his medicals. Ultimately, Donnie thought it was better to take a chance on Redick being able to help the team in the playoffs than to keep the two guys who were already out of the rotation and the pick.
Donnie is aware that Redick was hoping to be bought out and play where he wanted (said to be Brooklyn), but thinks that, notwithstanding that, he is positive about coming to Dallas. Luka and Dirk have texted him. Redick already has a connection with Casey via USA Basketball, and they will work on the medical issues. Did not have a timetable at last report, but the issue is that a non-surgical procedure on his heel was done, I believe about three weeks ago, and when/if he makes a recovery from that.
The team did not want to make a major move unless it was clearly warranted at this time, because they were afraid it would set them back too much this season if they had to take a step back before new acquisitions were integrated. However, they expect to be "very aggressive" in the off-season.
(03-27-2021, 03:09 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if this is helpful, but here is what I have been able to gather as far as reporting on the transaction. Sources reported are primarily Mark Stein, Donnie, and Rick.
The Mavs did not want to trade any of their "top nine" rotation players at the TDL, unless they could acquire a player who (1) was clearly better than whoever he was replacing, and (2) could be integrated immediately (i.e., would not require a period of chemistry adjustment). James Johnson+ did not enable them to acquire such a player, although they tried.
They also tried to get in as a third team on some bigger deals, but nothing came through. Donnie was still very anxious to use James Johnson's contract for something. They were also still trying to work on getting George Hill. JJ Redick came up very, very late in the process, and there was no time to study his medicals. Ultimately, Donnie thought it was better to take a chance on Redick being able to help the team in the playoffs than to keep the two guys who were already out of the rotation and the pick.
Donnie is aware that Redick was hoping to be bought out and play where he wanted (said to be Brooklyn), but thinks that, notwithstanding that, he is positive about coming to Dallas. Luka and Dirk have texted him. Redick already has a connection with Casey via USA Basketball, and they will work on the medical issues. Did not have a timetable at last report, but the issue is that a non-surgical procedure on his heel was done, I believe about three weeks ago, and when/if he makes a recovery from that.
The team did not want to make a major move unless it was clearly warranted at this time, because they were afraid it would set them back too much this season if they had to take a step back before new acquisitions were integrated. However, they expect to be "very aggressive" in the off-season.
Whoa nice reporting there. Thanks for consolidating all that!
