(03-25-2021, 08:08 PM)HanspardShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]He is really not though. IMHO, he is actually worse on defense. I have the Magic as my regionally televised team. He might be forced to handle the ball because the Magic's PGs are straight up garbage and have been for years, while THJ has Luka and Brunson, but he's not good at it and he doesn't make anything happen when he dribbles the ball. We just spend all our time obsessing over our players short comings and don't particular care about other player's short comings ... particularly a prerenially non contending mid market team. He went for 2 seconds for a reason.
Okay, maybe you have a point there. My eyetest also tells me that THJ's defense isn't as bad this season as it used to be and that Fournier often was a defensive liability when we played Orlando. But I hesitated to bring that up because THJ's advanced defensive stats are worse than Fournier's. I guess one shouldn't trust all those stats too much.
(03-25-2021, 08:06 PM)Time Machine Dirk Wrote: [ -> ]Actually by eyetest I like THJ better because I like how hot he can get from 3 and he seems to be more explosive/faster than Fournier. (Although I rarely watched Orlando.)
But I wouldn't go as far as saying that THJ is clearly the better player as Killerleft just did.
Also, at least as far as eye test go, at least THJ is dialed in and plays hard nosed. Fournier is lost in space an inordinate amount of time, particularly on defense.
(03-25-2021, 08:12 PM)Time Machine Dirk Wrote: [ -> ]Okay, maybe you have a point there. My eyetest also tells me that THJ's defense isn't as bad this season as it used to be and that Fournier often was a defensive liability when we played Orlando. But I hesitated to bring that up because THJ's advanced defensive stats are worse than Fournier's. I guess one shouldn't trust all those stats too much.
It's just a matter of who's defensive stats you want to use. THJ is .1 Defensive Raptor while Fournier is -2.3
(03-25-2021, 08:08 PM)HanspardShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]He is really not though. IMHO, he is actually worse on defense because he isn't dialed in defense in half the time. The Magic are my regionally televised team, and I watch more Magic games than any sane person should. He doesn't handle the ball because he's particularly good at it or that he makes things happen, he handles the ball out of necessity because the Magic's PGs are straight up garbage and have been for years while the Mavs have Luka and Brunson. We just spend all our time obsessing over our players short comings and don't particular care about other player's short comings ... particularly a prerenially non contending mid market team. He went for 2 seconds for a reason.
He went for two seconds because he is an expiring contract. Why do people gloss over that very important detail? Anyway I think Fournier is a better player. I also think this was the Mavs chance to get him as now I think he's going to stay in Boston. I don't mind THJ at all and I am sort of resigned to the fact that he is probably going to be re-signed at this point.
Not expecting much out of Melli, but hoping that he could provide a useful 5-10 minutes as a 4/5 who could actually shoot 3s .. since Powell, WCS and even small ball DFS cant ..... just to limit Maxi's minutes a little. I think it's easy to forget that Maxi is already nearly 30 years old and his contributions inordinately depends on expending maximum energy on defense. I like Maxi a lot when he's within that 25-28 minute range, particularly if he's going to be in the crunch time minutes, but not so much when he's creeping into that 34+ minute range like he has been too often this year.
(03-25-2021, 08:23 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]He went for two seconds because he is an expiring contract. Why do people gloss over that very important detail?
Because he wouldn't be that hard to resign (which as you said, Boston is going to) when you have his bird rights. Two 2nds doesn't seem that much to me if you think you have a shot at locking up a player before he hits market, but seems like other teams weren't that interested in trading for him and then paying him market premium money. Maybe there is a reason for that?
(03-25-2021, 08:25 PM)HanspardShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]Not expecting much out of Melli, but hoping that he could provide a useful 5-10 minutes as a 4/5 who could actually shoot 3s .. since Powell, WCS and even small ball DFS cant ..... just to limit Maxi's minutes a little. I think it's easy to forget that Maxi is already nearly 30 years old and his contributions inordinately depends on expending maximum energy on defense. I like Maxi a lot when he's within that 25-28 minute range, particularly if he's going to be in the crunch time minutes, but not so much when he's creeping into that 34+ minute range like he has been too often this year.
Because he wouldn't be that hard to resign (which as you said, Boston is going to) when you have his bird rights. Two 2nds doesn't seem that much to me if you think you have a shot at locking up a player before he hits market, but seems like other teams weren't that interested in trading for him and then paying him market premium money. Maybe there is a reason for that?
He would be harder for the Mavs to resign than Boston. Bottom line is you don't give up big assets for an expiring player unless its a lock that he's resigning and he's a marquee player (ie Anthony Davis situation). It doesn't say anything negative that Fournier only went for two seconds, that's just the going rate for a good, not great player on an expiring deal.
I am trying to figure out if Mavs are just going to run it back and shore up the back end of their roster or go big after Collins, who seems to be the guy they really like. They are probably going to try to play all angles at once which is risky, ie negotiate with Collins, THJ, J Rich and the Hawks all at the same time.
(03-25-2021, 03:15 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If this is true, I won't be happy about it. That will be the first thing that pisses me off. Going on record right now. The Luka extension should be offered the absolute SECOND it is legal to do so, and if you have to dump KP's ass five minutes after that in order to open the window a crack more, you do it.
Not shooting you, the messenger, just hoping the Mavs can get this done THIS SUMMER.
Yeah I'm not advocating for it as much as saying thats what they are going to do...
They did some 2 year deals to line up with the expiring deals they already have.
I think they will try to get stuff done this summer. They remain in a good position cap wise to be able to squeeze a big signing in if there is one... Not sure who that is tho. It's a short list now.
The Redick trade was first formulated with San Antonio involved. The deal would’ve been largely the same, per sources, but Trey Lyles would’ve come to Dallas while Melli and another Pelicans player would’ve gone to the Spurs. Instead, San Antonio backed out at the last minute for unclear reasons after Dallas and New Orleans both believed the deal to be agreed upon, causing the teams to scramble to create the secondary framework represented in the two-team trade that ultimately took place.
Cato
Interesting 3 SW division teams working together.
(03-25-2021, 09:14 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]The Redick trade was first formulated with San Antonio involved. The deal would’ve been largely the same, per sources, but Trey Lyles would’ve come to Dallas while Melli and another Pelicans player would’ve gone to the Spurs. Instead, San Antonio backed out at the last minute for unclear reasons after Dallas and New Orleans both believed the deal to be agreed upon, causing the teams to scramble to create the secondary framework represented in the two-team trade that ultimately took place.
Cato
Interesting 3 SW division teams working together.
Interesting indeed. It's possible Lyles gets bought out and then makes his way to Dallas though. It looks like the Spurs wanted too much to take Iwundu.
(03-25-2021, 09:01 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I am trying to figure out if Mavs are just going to run it back and shore up the back end of their roster or go big after Collins, who seems to be the guy they really like. They are probably going to try to play all angles at once which is risky, ie negotiate with Collins, THJ, J Rich and the Hawks all at the same time.
Good thoughts.
It's certainly possible for the Mavs to get Collins. We've seen that happen in other situations where the RFA player wants more than the team wants to offer.
But only if (a) he wants to leave, (b) he would pick Dallas to go to, and © ATL doesnt want to pay him max. It remains to be seen whether all those possibilities are true.
If they are, it opens the door for the Mavs and ATL to work some sort of sign-and-trade where the Mavs get Collins and stay over the cap, and ATL gets value in return. Staying over the cap keeps the Mavs in play for re-signing both J-Rich and THJ.
If those things aren't the case, the Mavs just go about their business elsewhere, presumably re-signing both J-Rich and THJ.
(03-25-2021, 04:22 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]In terms of value. Fournier is worth way more than JJ Redick and other teams actually value 2nd round picks. Redick is done. I guess other posters disagree but in terms of longterm asset management the Mavs paid one 2nd to get rid of Iwundu. Don´t think Redick or Melli will be on the roster next season. Different story when it comes to a player like Fournier.
Reddick is a spot minute shooter. That's it. He may get 15 minutes a night. He's useful still. He's had an awful shooting season by his standards and he's shooting 36% lol. He's also been shooting well above that of late suggesting that perhaps it was a flukey start. Sort of like most of the Mavs shooters.
But call it poor asset management or whatever... I don't care. But we were likely never keeping our 2nd this year at the draft. We got a lot of flyers on the end of the bench and they seem to like them and want to see what they can do next year with an actual offseason with the team.
We're not going to carry 5 or 6 lottery tickets on the end of the bench hoping we find something.... Not if we are trying to contend.
Listened to Locked on Mavs for the first time in forever and one of the guys made a pretty sound point I want to repeat here.
Essentially Issac Harris said something like this: Redick was rumored to get bought out for the last week or so, so you have to think that this Redick to DAL deal was there at any point Dallas wanted. Better to get an asset than buy a player out. Perhaps the Mavs were actually in on all of the deals that happened today, knowing they had this in their backpocket, and ultimately decided to not pursue any of them/they fell apart.
Interestingly enough this trade happened right before the end of the deadline, which lends credence to that idea.
In any case, this trade wasn't an earthshattering one, but I think it was a smart one. Which at the end of the day is all what matters.
(03-25-2021, 09:13 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah I'm not advocating for it as much as saying thats what they are going to do...
Not that it's meaningful for me to say so, but I would wager a lot that Luka is offered every last penny possible just as soon as it's legal.
You don't jack with your franchise player to create questions of your commitment. That's why KP is in Dallas - as soon as NY tried that, his desire to be there faded.
And there's nothing as important as keeping Luka happy, and having him here as long as possible. Nothing. He is the franchise already.
Melli has about the worst statistics I’ve ever seen. He must be unplayable. The only thing that seems notable in this deal is the 2nd round pick. I hope the Mavs didn’t just piss one away. The one positive for me is that the Mavs must really believe they have a shot this season at something big, otherwise paying an over the hill shooter to sit on your bench in hopes of one more Steve Kerr moment just wouldn’t seem worth it.
(03-25-2021, 09:26 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Listened to Locked on Mavs for the first time in forever and one of the guys made a pretty sound point I want to repeat here.
Essentially Issac Harris said something like this: Redick was rumored to get bought out for the last week or so, so you have to think that this Redick to DAL deal was there at any point Dallas wanted. Better to get an asset than buy a player out. Perhaps the Mavs were actually in on all of the deals that happened today, knowing they had this in their backpocket, and ultimately decided to not pursue any of them/they fell apart.
Interestingly enough this trade happened right before the end of the deadline, which lends credence to that idea.
In any case, this trade wasn't an earthshattering one, but I think it was a smart one. Which at the end of the day is all what matters.
I agree they get his bird rights and can keep him going into next year very solid move.
My only issue is that we have not replaced Johnson's skillset to defend big forwards.
(03-25-2021, 09:21 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]If they are, it opens the door for the Mavs and ATL to work some sort of sign-and-trade where the Mavs get Collins and stay over the cap, and ATL gets value in return. Staying over the cap keeps the Mavs in play for re-signing both J-Rich and THJ.
I was thinking about that but without cap space, wouldn't the Mavs have to match Collins new salary in a trade? Maxi alone wouldn't do that. You'd have to include one of JRich or THJ right?
(03-25-2021, 02:18 PM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: [ -> ]There must always be a Stark in Winterfell
And there must always be a JJ in Dallas
JJB becomes JJR (shooting much better recently). Luka looking MVP-ish, KP looking Unicorn-ish, high octane offense looks even higher.
(03-25-2021, 09:32 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]I was thinking about that but without cap space, wouldn't the Mavs have to match Collins new salary in a trade? Maxi alone wouldn't do that. You'd have to include one of JRich or THJ right?
Correct, but you'd be able to keep the other. Or perhaps there is a different scenario where they keep both JR and THJ, including neither, but match Collins some other way. In any event, "how" has lots of possible answers.
The crucial part is getting Collins and ATL on board. After that, you can find an answer.
(03-25-2021, 09:31 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I agree they get his bird rights and can keep him going into next year very solid move.
My only issue is that we have not replaced Johnson's skillset to defend big forwards.
I don't think they have retaining Redick in mind but it certainly helps to have his rights.
And I agree with you. That's why I'm hoping for ORL to buyout OPJ so we can get him on the cheap.