MavsBoard

(01-12-2020, 09:38 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2020, 08:05 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/p...441738002/

I'm not totally ruling this out as it would be Mav's like to grab a Schwartz client prior to his option year and sign him longer term in the summer. The packages being mentioned for Drummond are awful. NY for instance...Frank N. at $6mm next year is negative value. Randle with Griffin is the worst defensive front court pairing in the history of the NBA. Atlanta's package is expiring crap and maybe a pick. This wouldn't be hard to pull off with little outgoing value if we had some contracts with little outgoing value.

I think the path to this (if Dallas wants to do it) might run through Sacramento. Dedmon would be a much better fit in Detroit than anything being mentioned in any of the other trade scenarios. It would take Lee going out plus Wright (I don't think we'd put Powell or Maxi in a package for Drummond). From there, someone needs to give us a replacement for Wright. The good news is there are tons of candidates on both Detroit and Sacramento who make less than our TPE who would fit in just fine. Two years of Rose instead of 3 years of Wright? I would do that as it would help with shot creation late in games. Many other possibilities.

Detroit getting Dedmon and Wright is better than anything else I've seen mentioned. Sacramento is only getting an expiring Lee in the most simple version of this, so someone might have to give them a little additional consideration.

https://tradenba.com/trades/xR7ecVOf-

There's a problem with that trade.

The Mavs end up with Drummond.

https://giphy.com/gifs/pVAMI8QYM42n6/html5

(01-12-2020, 12:00 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]There's a problem with that trade.

The Mavs end up with Drummond.

While I have my doubts that Drummond could fit here, we saw last night how important having an elite rebounder is for this team. Think about it. Could Drummond have gotten the rebounds Powell got in the 2nd half and finished them for dunks? Would Drummond have allowed 10 offensive rebounds in the first 6 minutes?

Drummond isn't the brightest, and we don't know for sure if he could play the way the Mavs want him to, but thats the beauty of his contract. If it doesn't work the Mavs could cut ties and be okay with it.

And think of it from Drummond's perspective. He gets traded to a team run by Luka Doncic, one of the best passers in the NBA. A guy who can set up literally any one. Teams would be watching to see how he works with Luka, because if Luka can't set him up, how would their lesser playmaking PG's fair trying to set up Drummond? AND Drummond is looking for his payday. Having a terrible 2nd half season would severely hinder that venture. 

On the flip side if Drummond works out and is a BEAST in the playoffs then the Mavs found their 5, and are rocking a core of Luka/KP/Drummond with the potential to add even more to that team.

(01-12-2020, 12:00 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]There's a problem with that trade.

The Mavs end up with Drummond.

I don't disagree, I think I'm less than upset if we were to bring in Drummond. However, if we tweek this trade a bit, with Drummond going to Sac and Dedmon coming here (we could use him to send Powell to the bench where he has proven to be a pretty big asset IMO). How much do we have to send out in order to bring in Bogdanovic? If the premise of Drummond not being very valuable as a trade asset, then with my assumption that there is not a way to get what Kings see as Bog's value, how does this tweek to the trade look?

https://tradenba.com/trades/Td32E7sZN
Det => Drummond and Rose
Det <= Lee, JB, DW, Giles and their own 2020 second from Sac

Sac => Giles, Bogdanovic, Dedmon, and Det 2020 second
Sac <= Drummond and GSW second

Dal => Lee, JB, DW and GSW second
Dal <= Bogdanovic, Rose and Dedmon

I'd add JJ to either team if they want him as well. That gets Det a slew of young developing players and their own second back to forge into their tanking rest of the season. In negotiations, if JJ was required to be outgoing: if he goes to Det, GSW stays going to Sac. If he goes to Sac, GSW goes to Det. Otherwise, JJ could also be the added value to not have to include the GSW pick...all depending on the negotiations.

Separate from the above post:

The 3 players that I think would solidify this team, once they get a bit of experience and gel time under their belt (once acquired), and make them a contender are:

Bogdanovich, RoCo (or OPJ) and Favors

Those are a specific 3 (4), so really whenever I can find an upgrade with similar skillsets and capability (capability because we can't get a lesser version of them, like say a bench quality guy with their skillset, we can however, get a greater version of them), I'm pulling the trigger and I'm using anyone not named Luka or KP to do so. Bench be damned until I get those guys (or the like) because we can and have been proven to be able to find bench players.

^^^ I really really really like that trade.

Any realistic trade that brings me one of Bogdonavic/RoCo/Aaron Gordon I am a very happy camper.

(01-12-2020, 01:10 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I don't disagree, I think I'm less than upset if we were to bring in Drummond. However, if we tweek this trade a bit, with Drummond going to Sac and Dedmon coming here...

How much do we have to send out in order to bring in Bogdanovic? If the premise of Drummond not being very valuable as a trade asset, then with my assumption that there is not a way to get what Kings see as Bog's value, how does this tweek to the trade look?

https://tradenba.com/trades/Td32E7sZN 

I like your base premise.  Sending Dallas Bog and Rose is probably a bit greedy.  There are simpler deals that send Rose to Sacramento.  Even if we only got Bog and Dedmon while sending out one rotation player (like Wright for instance), that would still be a pretty good deal for Dallas.  https://tradenba.com/trades/tnpyLSE-b

Here's the issue (taking our Mav's colored glasses off for a moment).  Does Sacramento really want non-shooters Bagley, Drummond and Holmes as their big rotation?

(01-12-2020, 01:22 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]^^^ I really really really like that trade.

Any realistic trade that brings me one of Bogdonavic/RoCo/Aaron Gordon I am a very happy camper.

Those three might be my top three targets as well.

I have serious doubts that the Mavs have the assets to get any one of those, but if they could... and I love IGT's creativity with how the Mavs could perhaps make things happen by using the stupidity of two worse front offices.

---

(01-12-2020, 01:09 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2020, 12:00 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]There's a problem with that trade.

The Mavs end up with Drummond.

While I have my doubts that Drummond could fit here, we saw last night how important having an elite rebounder is for this team. Think about it. Could Drummond have gotten the rebounds Powell got in the 2nd half and finished them for dunks? Would Drummond have allowed 10 offensive rebounds in the first 6 minutes?

Drummond isn't the brightest, and we don't know for sure if he could play the way the Mavs want him to, but thats the beauty of his contract. If it doesn't work the Mavs could cut ties and be okay with it.

And think of it from Drummond's perspective. He gets traded to a team run by Luka Doncic, one of the best passers in the NBA. A guy who can set up literally any one. Teams would be watching to see how he works with Luka, because if Luka can't set him up, how would their lesser playmaking PG's fair trying to set up Drummond? AND Drummond is looking for his payday. Having a terrible 2nd half season would severely hinder that venture.

On the flip side if Drummond works out and is a BEAST in the playoffs then the Mavs found their 5, and are rocking a core of Luka/KP/Drummond with the potential to add even more to that team.

I do like the creative and flexible way you're looking at it. My main issues with Drummond is his present contract and what his future contract would be. That's a colossal amount of money for microscopic interest in winning basketball, not enough defense, and a ton of boneheadedness. If he were willing to be a role player (a starting, big-minute role player, but a role player) and sign for, say $15 mil a year, great. That ain't happening. If his market is low this summer, I would fall down and die of not surprise if he left the league. And if he didn't re-sign with the Mavs, you're out the assets you sent out when you could have got something long-term. No thanks.

The only players in the league right now about whom I would be more upset about Dallas acquiring at their price tags are Blake the Broken, John Wall, and our good friend Harrison Barnes. I would rather have Chris Paul, with that hideous third year of his contract, than Drummond.

(01-12-2020, 01:53 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I like your base premise.  Sending Dallas Bog and Rose is probably a bit greedy.  There are simpler deals that send Rose to Sacramento.  Even if we only got Bog and Dedmon while sending out one rotation player (like Wright for instance), that would still be a pretty good deal for Dallas.  https://tradenba.com/trades/tnpyLSE-b

Here's the issue (taking our Mav's colored glasses off for a moment).  Does Sacramento really want non-shooters Bagley, Drummond and Holmes as their big rotation?

I basically thought, if we're gonna give Det the first trade to their fire sale, they would want young players instead of old (I'd be willing to give them JJ as well, or the GSW second depending on what their priority would be after getting all the young projects with upside). Giving them both of our PG's requires the need for 1 replacement (we don't need 2) esp since Bog can handle some of the ball handling/creating duties. While Rose is playing really well right now, it's a young for old swap.

I try pretty hard to take off the Blue and Green colored glasses when I look at or propose trades, that's why I've said I look for the point when many Mavs fans are saying "that's too much to give up", that's about where I believe it's pretty close to the right amount. In this one, we are putting on the Blue and Green glasses by saying Drummond isn't gonna get the value Det wants. In the same way but on a different scale, I don't think Sac is going to get what they think Bog's value is in trade either. Neither team needs to trade either player if they don't get the value they believe the player has, so in that sense, I was playing along with the scenario you created while adding to it with my own thoughts.

(01-12-2020, 02:46 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2020, 01:53 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I like your base premise. Sending Dallas Bog and Rose is probably a bit greedy. There are simpler deals that send Rose to Sacramento. Even if we only got Bog and Dedmon while sending out one rotation player (like Wright for instance), that would still be a pretty good deal for Dallas. https://tradenba.com/trades/tnpyLSE-b

Here's the issue (taking our Mav's colored glasses off for a moment). Does Sacramento really want non-shooters Bagley, Drummond and Holmes as their big rotation?

I basically thought, if we're gonna give Det the first trade to their fire sale, they would want young players instead of old (I'd be willing to give them JJ as well, or the GSW second depending on what their priority would be after getting all the young projects with upside). Giving them both of our PG's requires the need for 1 replacement (we don't need 2) esp since Bog can handle some of the ball handling/creating duties. While Rose is playing really well right now, it's a young for old swap.

I try pretty hard to take off the Blue and Green colored glasses when I look at or propose trades, that's why I've said I look for the point when many Mavs fans are saying "that's too much to give up", that's about where I believe it's pretty close to the right amount. In this one, we are putting on the Blue and Green glasses by saying Drummond isn't gonna get the value Det wants. In the same way but on a different scale, I don't think Sac is going to get what they think Bog's value is in trade either. Neither team needs to trade either player if they don't get the value they believe the player has, so in that sense, I was playing along with the scenario you created while adding to it with my own thoughts.

Bog remains my number one trade target, but I see it this way: 1) I think that Sac is way more willing to pay him big bucks than people think. He and Vlade are paisanos, if nothing else. You could make an argument that he is their second-best player after Fox and ahead of Bagley and Hield. 2) In the event that they feel they can't keep him, I'll bet they do a sign-and-trade with his target team over the summer. 3) If they decide they are better off trading him before the deadline, which I see as highly unlikely, there are many other NBA teams with a market for him who can give more than the Mavs can in trade.

I will consider it a front-office miracle if the Mavs get Bog in trade at the deadline.

Wonder what the other players on roster think of this if true.  LeChina being GM again

https://twitter.com/TheHoopCentral/statu...4557946880

Realistically we can´t trade for Drummond. There is just no place in the current NBA for a winning team with $80M committed to their PF/C rotation. Short-term/test drive solutions that at most will cost the Utah 2nd like Willy Hernangomez, Len, Dedmon, Vonleh or Mahinmi just make the most sense. Then look for a solution in the draft. Saric would be the more long-term trade option.

(01-12-2020, 04:36 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]There is just no place in the current NBA for a winning team with $80M committed to their PF/C rotation

Philly has almost 90 million committed to their PF/C rotation right now and they're one of the best teams in the NBA. Lakers currently have AD and Lebron who plays small ball 4 and 5 for 60 million adding in Javale, Cousins, Kuzma and the rest and thats close to 70 million.  The best team in the NBA MIL has 60 million committed to their PF/C rotation. 

Mavs are at 61 million committed to their PF/C rotation if we include DFS and Luka as small ball 4's. So adding Drummond isn't this taboo thing that puts the Mavs as the only good team spending big in their PF/C spots. And besides, if it works, why would it matter how much they're spending? That's for Cuban to worry about and we all know as long as the team is competing for rings he could care less about money. 

So the real debate is does Drummond push the Mavs team over the top? I don't think there's a definitive answer. I think it largely relies on if Drummond buys in on playing a Clint Capela type role, except better. I don't think any team is going to throw anywhere close to his max contract this summer. Not even tanking teams like ATL and Charlotte. ATL MAYBE but their GM is a product of the Warriors front office and overspending isn't their mantra. 

Either way if the Mavs would want to try a Drummond experiment there's no better time than now given his contract situation and the relative difficulty it is to trade for him. I'd like to think all the Mavs would have to throw at them are Lee+Wright+GSW 2nd+ MIA 2nd for Drummond and Rose. DET gets basically a late first, a future 2nd, a heady PG and cap relief. 

Regardless I think it is a risky move, and I'm not super gun-ho about it. Given what occurred with the Rondo trade I am understandably cautious of adding any player to the team which could theoretically make all the wheels come off. But salary wise, I couldn't care less how much the Mavs pay for their PF/C combo, as long as it works.

(01-12-2020, 05:14 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2020, 04:36 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]There is just no place in the current NBA for a winning team with $80M committed to their PF/C rotation

Philly has almost 90 million committed to their PF/C rotation right now and they're one of the best teams in the NBA. Lakers currently have AD and Lebron who plays small ball 4 and 5 for 60 million adding in Javale, Cousins, Kuzma and the rest and thats close to 70 million.  The best team in the NBA MIL has 60 million committed to their PF/C rotation. 

Mavs are at 61 million committed to their PF/C rotation if we include DFS and Luka as small ball 4's. So adding Drummond isn't this taboo thing that puts the Mavs as the only good team spending big in their PF/C spots. And besides, if it works, why would it matter how much they're spending? That's for Cuban to worry about and we all know as long as the team is competing for rings he could care less about money. 

So the real debate is does Drummond push the Mavs team over the top? I don't think there's a definitive answer. I think it largely relies on if Drummond buys in on playing a Clint Capela type role, except better. I don't think any team is going to throw anywhere close to his max contract this summer. Not even tanking teams like ATL and Charlotte. ATL MAYBE but their GM is a product of the Warriors front office and overspending isn't their mantra. 

Either way if the Mavs would want to try a Drummond experiment there's no better time than now given his contract situation and the relative difficulty it is to trade for him. I'd like to think all the Mavs would have to throw at them are Lee+Wright+GSW 2nd+ MIA 2nd for Drummond and Rose. DET gets basically a late first, a future 2nd, a heady PG and cap relief. 

Regardless I think it is a risky move, and I'm not super gun-ho about it. Given what occurred with the Rondo trade I am understandably cautious of adding any player to the team which could theoretically make all the wheels come off. But salary wise, I couldn't care less how much the Mavs pay for their PF/C combo, as long as it works.

Come on don´t play stupid. Bron and Harris are the starting SFs. LeBron arguably is the starting PG. None of Drummond, Porzingis, Powell, Boban or Kleber can play SF.

(01-12-2020, 05:19 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Come on don´t play stupid. Bron and Harris are the starting SFs. LeBron arguably is the starting PG. None of Drummond, Porzingis, Powell, Boban or Kleber can play SF.

Lebron is 100% LA's starting point guard, but my main point is that they use him at PF and even small ball center. Doesn't that make Lebron apart of their PF/C rotation? Obviously that isn't his main role, and I'm not saying they are paying Lebron to be a PF/C, but he DOES play that. 

Not playing stupid by the way. Tobias Harris has played 53% of his minutes at PF this year. Last year TB played almost 70% of his minutes at PF.  Tobias Harris has been a PF almost every single season he's been in the league. So he 100% counts as a PF in Philly's PF/C rotation. Him, Embiid, and Horford makeup almost 80 million of their 90 million salary. But you never see anyone complaining about those 3 players for the 76ers, because it works. 

Secondly KP and Kleber could theoretically play SF and play it well. They're both versatile quick defenders that can guard almost anyone. Especially Kleber. KP is one of the better perimeter defenders in the league for big men. Same with Drummond as well (I had to look it up and was shocked to see he was above average). Also by our own coach's admission, KP plays like a 7'3 shooting guard, and we see the Mavs use him as such. So arguably the Mavs are ALREADY using KP as a SG/SF on offense and a C on defense. 

Thirdly, do you really think the Mavs are ever going to run a lineup of Powell, KP, and Drummond? Of course they wouldn't. The PF/C rotation would be KP/Drummond and Maxi/Powell playing off the bench. AND I mean hypothetically they could even trot out a lineup of Maxi, KP, and Drummond because both KP and Kleber space the floor incredibly well and Maxi can guard any 3 in the league. 

So having a PF/C rotation of
KP/Maxi
Drummond/Powell/Boban

Gives you a mix of elite defense, elite rebounding, 3 point shot making, and spot big bruiser minutes. It's versatile, and shouldn't be questioned.

Again what should be questioned and debated is how Drummond would fair in Powell's role, and would he accept playing a lesser role than what he currently has. Furthermore, does Drummond even care about winning? All of those are valid criticisms for any Drummond trade, but how much money the Mavs have tied up in certain positions certainly isn't one of them. 

(01-12-2020, 03:34 PM)ThunderMav Wrote: [ -> ]Wonder what the other players on roster think of this if true.  LeChina being GM again

https://twitter.com/TheHoopCentral/statu...4557946880

who cares?  Lakers want to win a championship, not sing kumbaya.  People said the same thing about AD but that was an obvious no brainer.

---

(01-12-2020, 05:14 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2020, 04:36 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]There is just no place in the current NBA for a winning team with $80M committed to their PF/C rotation

So the real debate is does Drummond push the Mavs team over the top? I don't think there's a definitive answer. I think it largely relies on if Drummond buys in on playing a Clint Capela type role, except better. 

 So he has to play like he's never played before in his life for the Mavs to go from a 6 seed to a 4 seed?  Hard pass unless they take Powell's contract.

He's not going to remotely make them a title contender.

(01-12-2020, 05:44 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]3 point shot making

Esp with Boban!

---

(01-12-2020, 06:10 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]who cares?  Lakers want to win a championship, not sing kumbaya. 

I like this response.

(01-12-2020, 01:10 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ][quote='Scott41theMavs' pid='20940' dateline='1578848421']

Separate from the above post:

The 3 players that I think would solidify this team, once they get a bit of experience and gel time under their belt (once acquired), and make them a contender are:

Bogdanovich, RoCo (or OPJ) and Favors

Those are a specific 3 (4), so really whenever I can find an upgrade with similar skillsets and capability (capability because we can't get a lesser version of them, like say a bench quality guy with their skillset, we can however, get a greater version of them), I'm pulling the trigger and I'm using anyone not named Luka or KP to do so. Bench be damned until I get those guys (or the like) because we can and have been proven to be able to find bench players.

I had forgotten about Favors.

While I think that Gordon might be the best overall player out of those four, I would agree that Bog, RoCo, and Favors would each fit better. If the Mavs found a way to have those three under contract along with Luka and KP, that's a contending starting five. Any one of those three (and Gordon, for that matter) is the Mavs' 3rd best player from day one and would be a substantial upgrade to our current roster if the trade was otherwise fair (i.e. no more than one of Maxi, DFS, Wright, or Curry going out).

---

On further reflection regarding Bogdanovich, I think I was both overrating him and his value to the Kings (Hield is better for sure, and probably Bagley when healthy). I still think he's a damn good fit for the Mavs if the price is right. The best thing about him is that he's a shooting guard. He plays decent D and shoots a mean three, and can create his own shot to a worthy extent. To me, one of the biggest headaches about the current roster is that two of our decent ballhandlers, Brunson and Wright, don't like being on the court with Luka (if Luka keeps fussing at Wright, it's hard to blame him...), but what nearly everyone says that what we need is someone to take the pressure off of Luka. The best player on the Mavs at that is not JJB, who denies Luka the ball worse than anyone else, but rather THJ. We don't need a point guard to play with Luka - we need a shooting guard-mentality guy who can take some of the scoring and handling pressure off. Bogdan would be great for that, although his fit might be a problem if THJ is still here next year. You want Bogdan to be your starting SG.

(01-12-2020, 06:10 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ] So he has to play like he's never played before in his life for the Mavs to go from a 6 seed to a 4 seed?  Hard pass unless they take Powell's contract.

He's not going to remotely make them a title contender.

Essentially yeah. Thats why I'm quite hesitant on any Drummond trade. The one thing thats in favor of it happening is that the Mavs are asking Drummond to just play to his strengths and to hustle. They're not asking him to do any ground breaking stuff. If Drummond just rolled to the rim quickly and effectively then he's doing exactly what the Mavs want. Almost any  big can do that. Mavs also have a knack of creating elite rim rollers. Before Powell it was Brandan Wright. If they could do it with them, why couldn't Drummond do it? He's built better than both of them and has all the tools. 


The only hiccup comes from Drummond himself, and whether or not he buys in. And thats a big risk, because we've seen Drummond not care that much about basketball. Could it be the fact he's been plagued by quite shit teams in Detroit and a winning situation could turn things around? Maybe. But its a real risk and why in any Drummond proposal they'd have to limit the assets going out. 

However if Drummond worked out, then the Mavs jump would be more than just a 6th to a 4th seed. They'd be bonafide contenders this season. And as Cubes always says, good teams make the playoffs, hot teams win championships. Who's to say the Mavs don't get hot in the playoffs?

(01-12-2020, 10:18 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Bogdan would be great for that, although his fit might be a problem if THJ is still here next year. You want Bogdan to be your starting SG.

If Dallas manages to somehow get Bogdan, I see them happily spreading the floor with Luka/BB/THJ/Powell/KP and pretty much destroying people offensively while mixing and matching defensive guys like Wright/DFS/Maxi to keep teams honest.  I don't think they'd be too worried about fit.  To me, the question is whether Dallas would value an expensive Bogdan over a relatively inexpensive Curry.  If they do (BB does have better size and playmaking), then honestly a simple Curry/BB swap might make sense for both teams.

(01-12-2020, 11:45 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2020, 10:18 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Bogdan would be great for that, although his fit might be a problem if THJ is still here next year. You want Bogdan to be your starting SG.

If Dallas manages to somehow get Bogdan, I see them happily spreading the floor with Luka/BB/THJ/Powell/KP and pretty much destroying people offensively while mixing and matching defensive guys like Wright/DFS/Maxi to keep teams honest.  I don't think they'd be too worried about fit.  To me, the question is whether Dallas would value an expensive Bogdan over a relatively inexpensive Curry.  If they do (BB does have better size and playmaking), then honestly a simple Curry/BB swap might make sense for both teams.

I think BB is the starter version upgrade to Curry. I think we'd have to give them more than just Curry, but that's a really good base for an offer since BB is stuck behind Hield. THJ would then either replace DFS or go to the bench.

(01-12-2020, 11:06 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]With Denzel Valentine again out of the Chicago Bulls' rotation, the team is reportedly exploring trading him before February's deadline.

Joe Cowley of the Chicago Sun-Times reported the Bulls "would jump" to make a deal for the 2016 first-round pick. Valentine is a restricted free agent this summer, and the team reportedly has no plans on bringing him back.

Another player I would not mind picking up. 6'5, can shoot it, his advanced numbers have gotten better every year. Not a starter but a nice complementary player off the bench who provides size, shooting and passing from the wing. 

I'd absorb him into our exception. Chicago won't get much value for him, I doubt that it will be more than a late/mid 2nd.