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I'll believe it when I see it. Cuban wants his stars out there no matter what - especially for 3 final home games. They may lose but Cuban will want Luka and Kyrie to get their stats.

(04-03-2023, 12:09 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: [ -> ]I'll believe it when I see it. Cuban wants his stars out there no matter what - especially for 3 final home games. They may lose but Cuban will want Luka and Kyrie to get their stats.

Cuban has tanked before. The circumstances were a little different, but I don't think he cares about their stats as much as setting themselves up to win next year. Whether he has the guts to have that conversation before they are officially eliminated is the main question in my mind.

Unfortunately, now that it's been reported, Cuban will probably play them just to spite the media.

Fortunately, this team is such ass that they can easily lose anyway.

(04-03-2023, 12:26 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]Cuban has tanked before. The circumstances were a little different, but I don't think he cares about their stats as much as setting themselves up to win next year. Whether he has the guts to have that conversation before they are officially eliminated is the main question in my mind.

When it is the only remaining option. Even in the last few seasons with Dirk they tried to win for at least 2/3 of the season. And to make things worse they ruined their odds with winning streaks in the last few games of the season.

(04-03-2023, 12:26 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]Cuban has tanked before. The circumstances were a little different, but I don't think he cares about their stats as much as setting themselves up to win next year. Whether he has the guts to have that conversation before they are officially eliminated is the main question in my mind.

The process should have started a long time ago.  This team has been flawed from the jump and got the double whammy of being snake bitten on the injury front.  The focus now should be on hoping we can retain our pick and working with Kyrie to sign or sign-and-trade.  Next year is also kind of scary as I'm not sure a draft pick and some fringe free agent pickups are going to change the dynamic of this team all that much.

(04-03-2023, 12:37 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]The process should have started a long time ago.  This team has been flawed from the jump and got the double whammy of being snake bitten on the injury front.  The focus now should be on hoping we can retain our pick and working with Kyrie to sign or sign-and-trade.  Next year is also kind of scary as I'm not sure a draft pick and some fringe free agent pickups are going to change the dynamic of this team all that much.

It won’t. That’s why Nico needs to just clear out as much as he can and use the pick to upgrade the talent base.

(04-03-2023, 12:37 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Next year is also kind of scary as I'm not sure a draft pick and some fringe free agent pickups are going to change the dynamic of this team all that much.

That´s why I am on team sign&trade Kyrie. Mavs need a complete overhaul.

(04-03-2023, 12:50 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]That´s why I am on team sign&trade Kyrie. Mavs need a complete overhaul.

While I don't disagree, hard to imagine we'd get back anything close to what we paid for him.  

And I don't disagree with IGT either, but you might have to consider selling Luka at that point.  Not sure he'd be on board for a complete rebuild.  And on that line of thinking, could you use Luka sooner rather than later to make a play for Wemby?

Maybe the lottery Gods will finally smile on the Mavericks and solve all of this for us.

(04-03-2023, 12:55 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]While I don't disagree, hard to imagine we'd get back anything close to what we paid for him.  

And I don't disagree with IGT either, but you might have to consider selling Luka at that point.  Not sure he'd be on board for a complete rebuild.  And on that line of thinking, could you use Luka sooner rather than later to make a play for Wemby?

Maybe the lottery Gods will finally smile on the Mavericks and solve all of this for us.

I think we’re currently fine with Luka on the 1st year of a 5 yr extension, but the overhaul that I’m thinking of is a move toward more win now pieces as I think that might be the only “value” we can extract from the pieces we have now. It’s a somewhat shuffling of the deck, using the 2 picks we have to realize the talent upgrades we need. For sure a threading of the needle, but that’s the state we find ourselves in after so many years of mishandling the team.

That said, I have put up a proposal of Luka and our big money cast offs (THJ, Bertans, Bullock and McGee) for the Tor vets (FVV, Siakam, OG and Achiuwa) and some picks to pair up with Kyrie. I think that team has championship potential next year.

I don't disagree with the thought process of a complete overhaul but I agree with the sentiment that if you're doing that, it basically means bye bye Luka because Luka isn't going to want to go through that and I don't think starting over without a generational talent is going to be much better than retooling.

To me all we need to be competitive is a tough minded frontline.  There's good pieces on this roster but our best frontcourt player is currently limping around after serious injury, there's no way any team can compete like that.

If you assume Green can take another step forward and completely overtake Bullock (all we need is for him to be consistent, we've seen what he looks like when he's playing well) as well as Hardy then you're looking at:

Kyrie/Luka/Green/x/x with a bench core of Hardy/Bullock/Maxi is a pretty good start.

The problem is filling in those x's is going to be very difficult when you're remaining assets to trade or use are Hardaway(or Bullock, I think you need to keep one)/Bertans/McGee/top 10 2023(?)/2027 and I believe we'll also have two seconds to move this offseason as well.

I'm a huge fan of Taylor Hendricks if we slip into the top 10.  He's the exact kind of power forward that you need today (and that we are SORELY missing).  Then you can use what's left paired with the 2027 to come up with a trade for a starting defensive minded center.

The formula that worked so well for our defense last year was essentially Bullock handling point of attack, DFS on the best off ball player and Maxi patrolling the backline (and a lot of buy in across the board which I think was very much because DFS and Brunson were the type of guys to get that buy in from everyone else).  The problem now is that all three of those guys took a huge step back defensively and then one got hurt and one is gone.  Green got asked to fill DFS's role which is silly because he's better on point of attack and will get outsized on the wings and when he WAS guarding the point of attack Luka was essentially handling DFS's role which is...just hilarious.

Can Green grow into the defender that Bullock showed us last year and can you draft a DFS or Maxi replacement and then trade for the other?  That is where my mind is at.

Utah has 4 games left - two against the Lakers, one against New Orleans and one against Denver, in the second to last game when the Nuggets should have secured the top seed. They need at least one win so we can tie them record-wise - and then beat them by winning the coin toss. That would mean we‘re pretty much ensured to keep our pick and have a fair chance for a Top 4 pick.

(04-03-2023, 01:47 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]I don't disagree with the thought process of a complete overhaul but I agree with the sentiment that if you're doing that, it basically means bye bye Luka because Luka isn't going to want to go through that and I don't think starting over without a generational talent is going to be much better than retooling.

To me all we need to be competitive is a tough minded frontline.  There's good pieces on this roster but our best frontcourt player is currently limping around after serious injury, there's no way any team can compete like that.

If you assume Green can take another step forward and completely overtake Bullock (all we need is for him to be consistent, we've seen what he looks like when he's playing well) as well as Hardy then you're looking at:

Kyrie/Luka/Green/x/x with a bench core of Hardy/Bullock/Maxi is a pretty good start.

The problem is filling in those x's is going to be very difficult when you're remaining assets to trade or use are Hardaway(or Bullock, I think you need to keep one)/Bertans/McGee/top 10 2023(?)/2027 and I believe we'll also have two seconds to move this offseason as well.

I'm a huge fan of Taylor Hendricks if we slip into the top 10.  He's the exact kind of power forward that you need today (and that we are SORELY missing).  Then you can use what's left paired with the 2027 to come up with a trade for a starting defensive minded center.

The formula that worked so well for our defense last year was essentially Bullock handling point of attack, DFS on the best off ball player and Maxi patrolling the backline (and a lot of buy in across the board which I think was very much because DFS and Brunson were the type of guys to get that buy in from everyone else).  The problem now is that all three of those guys took a huge step back defensively and then one got hurt and one is gone.  Green got asked to fill DFS's role which is silly because he's better on point of attack and will get outsized on the wings and when he WAS guarding the point of attack Luka was essentially handling DFS's role which is...just hilarious.

Can Green grow into the defender that Bullock showed us last year and can you draft a DFS or Maxi replacement and then trade for the other?  That is where my mind is at.

Great post. I pretty much agree with all of it except I'm more adamant about trading the top 10 pick for immediate help. Kyrie is already 31 and you might end up burning a couple seasons before your draft pick has developed.

(04-03-2023, 01:47 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]I don't disagree with the thought process of a complete overhaul but I agree with the sentiment that if you're doing that, it basically means bye bye Luka because Luka isn't going to want to go through that and I don't think starting over without a generational talent is going to be much better than retooling.

To me all we need to be competitive is a tough minded frontline.  There's good pieces on this roster but our best frontcourt player is currently limping around after serious injury, there's no way any team can compete like that.

If you assume Green can take another step forward and completely overtake Bullock (all we need is for him to be consistent, we've seen what he looks like when he's playing well) as well as Hardy then you're looking at:

Kyrie/Luka/Green/x/x with a bench core of Hardy/Bullock/Maxi is a pretty good start.

The problem is filling in those x's is going to be very difficult when you're remaining assets to trade or use are Hardaway(or Bullock, I think you need to keep one)/Bertans/McGee/top 10 2023(?)/2027 and I believe we'll also have two seconds to move this offseason as well.

I'm a huge fan of Taylor Hendricks if we slip into the top 10.  He's the exact kind of power forward that you need today (and that we are SORELY missing).  Then you can use what's left paired with the 2027 to come up with a trade for a starting defensive minded center.

The formula that worked so well for our defense last year was essentially Bullock handling point of attack, DFS on the best off ball player and Maxi patrolling the backline (and a lot of buy in across the board which I think was very much because DFS and Brunson were the type of guys to get that buy in from everyone else).  The problem now is that all three of those guys took a huge step back defensively and then one got hurt and one is gone.  Green got asked to fill DFS's role which is silly because he's better on point of attack and will get outsized on the wings and when he WAS guarding the point of attack Luka was essentially handling DFS's role which is...just hilarious.

Can Green grow into the defender that Bullock showed us last year and can you draft a DFS or Maxi replacement and then trade for the other?  That is where my mind is at.

I think this is spot on, where I think the problem lies is in the thought that we can use the leftovers to get that defensive minded C, also, which one will be available at that type price? The closest player I can think of that might fit the bill that also might be available is Capela. Seems like he has lost a bit of a step though and his price tag might not reflect that. The top 10 pick might be the asking price. We are then out our “solution” for the PF spot. There are those that think Turner is in play, but that is guaranteed to cost at least the pick (most likely the 27 as well). That is an amazing start, but we then have no “sweeteners” other than Green and/or Hardy to find the starting PF. 

We have been talking to Atl a lot (although their whole off court operation has changed recently). I guess a Capela and Collins deal pretty much puts us where we want to be in terms of starters. What does that cost us though? I’d for sure say at least the 23 and 27. If not just that it might take Green and/or Hardy along with matching salaries.

(04-03-2023, 02:01 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]Great post. I pretty much agree with all of it except I'm more adamant about trading the top 10 pick for immediate help. Kyrie is already 31 and you might end up burning a couple seasons before your draft pick has developed.

I normally agree with the idea that if you have guys like Luka and Kyrie already onboard and the plan is to win now, you're usually better off trading picks.  I think though that this may be one of the years Cuban is much more inclined to use the pick because keeping a rookie scale contract on the roster will help him financially.  I also think because our biggest need is defense and rebounding that you're probably more likely to get that out of a rookie compared to playmaking or shot creation, there's been a lot of examples of that in recent years (See Mavs2021, I'm not as anti rookie contributor as you think!).  I mentioned him in the previous post but Taylor Hendricks checks all the boxes of someone who would (should) start on this team tomorrow if he were available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzyM-LNaVcU

Every team in the league has a guy like this and we used to.  He fits the big wing/small big mold who can guard everyone to a T.  I wanted Vanderbilt bad after the Kyrie trade and this kid could fill that role immediately.

(04-03-2023, 02:03 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I think the problem lies is in the thought that we can use the leftovers to get that defensive minded C, also, which one will be available at that type price? The closest player I can think of that might fit the bill that also might be available is Capela.

I run into the same issue to when I play the scenario out and usually come to the same name as you.  I think this with Hardaway's contract really shrinking that him paired with the 2027 should have some decent value to it but to your point...is there even a market?

Another team I'm keeping an eye on is Detroit because they've really started to create themselves quite the logjam in the frontcourt and there could be a French kid who makes that even more apparently after the draft.  Beef Stew is the type of guy I'm looking for in the frontcourt but am curious who gets pushed out of that rotation eventually.  The problem there is that they're all on small rookie deals so what kind of trade can you actually make there with these larger contracts we have.

(04-03-2023, 02:51 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]I run into the same issue to when I play the scenario out and usually come to the same name as you.  I think this with Hardaway's contract really shrinking that him paired with the 2027 should have some decent value to it but to your point...is there even a market?

Another team I'm keeping an eye on is Detroit because they've really started to create themselves quite the logjam in the frontcourt and there could be a French kid who makes that even more apparently after the draft.  Beef Stew is the type of guy I'm looking for in the frontcourt but am curious who gets pushed out of that rotation eventually.  The problem there is that they're all on small rookie deals so what kind of trade can you actually make there with these larger contracts we have.

I looked into Det as well, I wanted Stewart in his draft pretty bad. You’re right though, add to their bigs being overloaded, their back court has SO many young players that I wonder if either Hardy or Green moves the needle for them at all.

Leaves Orlando with their huge logjam that might even get bigger this draft depending on what position they get. Was with the newly extended Gafford, but not sure he would be a big minute big.

(04-03-2023, 12:00 PM)Hogmelon Wrote: [ -> ]https://clutchpoints.com/nba-rumors-mavs...down-shams

Definitely the best move they can make at this point.  Clearly they tried to win the ATL game and came up just short, so they've done more than their bit for not tanking. (McGee btw really should have been worked in much sooner if they really wanted to stay afloat post Kyrie)  The handwriting is on the wall and both those guys have been playing through some degree of injury. 

Even if they do rest those guys, it still won't be guaranteed to lose every game left since other teams will rest players and the guys Dallas puts on the floor will include guys that have something to prove and will play hard to win.   
The Mavs have actually played pretty well in spurts

(04-03-2023, 01:24 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I think we’re currently fine with Luka on the 1st year of a 5 yr extension, but the overhaul that I’m thinking of is a move toward more win now pieces as I think that might be the only “value” we can extract from the pieces we have now. It’s a somewhat shuffling of the deck, using the 2 picks we have to realize the talent upgrades we need. For sure a threading of the needle, but that’s the state we find ourselves in after so many years of mishandling the team.

That said, I have put up a proposal of Luka and our big money cast offs (THJ, Bertans, Bullock and McGee) for the Tor vets (FVV, Siakam, OG and Achiuwa) and some picks to pair up with Kyrie. I think that team has championship potential next year.

You don't trade players like Luka ever unless they force their way out.

Kings is a Pacers-esque trap game. They´ll win the Kings game, if they are not tanking, cause the Kings are prepping for the play-offs. Cuban is too much of a dummy to tank, even with three games left, so.....at the end of it all the Mavs will have nothing.

(04-04-2023, 06:32 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Kings is a Pacers-esque trap game. They´ll win the Kings game, if they are not tanking, cause the Kings are prepping for the play-offs. Cuban is too much of a dummy to tank, even with three games left, so.....at the end of it all the Mavs will have nothing.

I‘m not so sure because the Kings still have a shot at the number 2 seed - they own the tie-breaker over Memphis and the Grizzlies still have a couple of tough games left. 

Winning the second seed allows you to play two rounds at home and a play-in winner in the first round instead of a well-rested 6th seed.