So with our recent injuries and others players stepping up, do you think any of the guys stepping up have earned consistent minutes when everyone is back healthy?
Frank
Bertans
Wright
Hardy
Kemba?
Minutes are really tight but I wonder if anyone has made a strong case that they deserve consistent minutes when DFS, Josh, and Bullock return.
(12-26-2022, 07:03 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: [ -> ]Christian Wood’s extension money is likely already earmarked for Dwight Powell and whoever the next genius McGee signing will be.
Wood will be gone by the deadline or will walk for nothing.
Cuban will call out “Twitter GM’s” and his state media will spew the same bullshit. Skin Wade will have another embarrassing radio/podcast rant.
Sorry ass franchise.
The reason you love Wood so much is the Stockholm syndrome you have from investing in this sorry ass franchise.
(12-30-2022, 09:16 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]So with our recent injuries and others players stepping up, do you think any of the guys stepping up have earned consistent minutes when everyone is back healthy?
Frank
Bertans
Wright
Hardy
Kemba?
Minutes are really tight but I wonder if anyone has made a strong case that they deserve consistent minutes when DFS, Josh, and Bullock return.
Good question. Unfortunately, I don't think so and below why I think so
Frank - average as ever. Plays defense, more or less useless on offense. He should provide much more on defense to justify his regular minutes
Bertans - shooter who can be hot or cold. Nothing we didn't know already. The other guys next to Luka/SD/THJ/Wood need to be plus defenders and he is not
Wright - I like his energy but he doesn't offer much on offense. Can do more with ball than all our other wings combined. He can do everything Campazzo provided so no idea why they thought they needed him
Hardy - not ready yet, although I think he should be getting developmental minutes
Kemba - great third PG, but not a regular rotation player due to his health issues and limited defense
I like Wright a lot. I think he can carve out a small role on this team. His energy and defense is sorely needed.
Playable rebounders that are available on the market:
Starters: Collins (ATL), Poeltl (SAS).
Role players: Boucher (TOR), Covington (LAC), Martin Jr. (HOU), Reid (MIN), Bamba (ORL), Hachimura (WAS), Gafford (WAS).
(01-01-2023, 07:28 AM)HAguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Playable rebounders that are available on the market:
Starters: Collins (ATL), Poeltl (SAS).
Role players: Boucher (TOR), Covington (LAC), Martin Jr. (HOU), Reid (MIN), Bamba (ORL), Hachimura (WAS), Gafford (WAS).
Is there a player among them who you think might cost less than a 1st round pick? Otherwise I wouldn't do such a small "cosmetic" trade only for rebounds and maybe minimally more defense.
Happy New Year y'all! Would anybody here pull the trigger on Looney + X for Wood and Josh Green? Assuming that Wood will not get extended (bad decision though imo) and GSW might be interested in a three point shooting center and a defensively strong guard. Would be a perfect fit for GSW I think. So we could potentially make it expensive for them if we had a competent FO... Maybe even Looney + Kuminga...? I'd hate to give up Green though but we have to cash in on Wood as much as possible.
(01-01-2023, 07:58 AM)Time Machine Dirk Wrote: [ -> ]Is there a player among them who you think might cost less than a 1st round pick? Otherwise I wouldn't do such a small "cosmetic" trade only for rebounds and maybe minimally more defense.
Happy New Year y'all! Would anybody here pull the trigger on Looney + X for Wood and Josh Green? Assuming that Wood will not get extended (bad decision though imo) and GSW might be interested in a three point shooting center and a defensively strong guard. Would be a perfect fit for GSW I think. So we could potentially make it expensive for them if we had a competent FO... Maybe even Looney + Kuminga...? I'd hate to give up Green though but we have to cash in on Wood as much as possible.
Boucher, Gafford and Covington I feel could be done for Bullock + 2nd.
As for the trade, i'd rather search for a better oportunity.
(01-01-2023, 08:31 AM)HAguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Boucher, Gafford and Covington I feel could be done for Bullock + 2nd.
As for the trade, i'd rather search for a better oportunity.
What kind of return do you think we could get from Wood alone? I don't think we could do much better than a defensively strong center who is under contract for more than two years. I could be wrong though... (again I would keep Wood tbh but it doesn't look like they will...)
I would give up Bullock too. I don't know what happened to him but he is a shell of himself. A full step slower this season than in last season's playoffs. He can't have gotten so slow in such a short period of time. He just seems desinterested in playing defense or maybe he has some kind of nagging injury like Achilles pain for example that he plays through? Would be at least an explanation for his slow movement on defense.
His 3-point shooting is trending a bit upwards at least...And he threw a nice lob to Wood vs the Spurs. New skills detected.
Honestly, it was a nice play by him.
(01-01-2023, 07:58 AM)Time Machine Dirk Wrote: [ -> ]Is there a player among them who you think might cost less than a 1st round pick? Otherwise I wouldn't do such a small "cosmetic" trade only for rebounds and maybe minimally more defense.
Happy New Year y'all! Would anybody here pull the trigger on Looney + X for Wood and Josh Green? Assuming that Wood will not get extended (bad decision though imo) and GSW might be interested in a three point shooting center and a defensively strong guard. Would be a perfect fit for GSW I think. So we could potentially make it expensive for them if we had a competent FO... Maybe even Looney + Kuminga...? I'd hate to give up Green though but we have to cash in on Wood as much as possible.
Pass
(01-01-2023, 07:28 AM)HAguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Playable rebounders that are available on the market:
Starters: Collins (ATL), Poeltl (SAS).
Role players: Boucher (TOR), Covington (LAC), Martin Jr. (HOU), Reid (MIN), Bamba (ORL), Hachimura (WAS), Gafford (WAS).
I’d probably add Vanderbilt to your list.
The first question that has to be answered is whether the addition is instead of or a compliment to Wood. Are we ready to commit to him? If so, then you are looking for a certain type of player. If yes on Wood, do we need the new player to start? If so, then they need to be good enough to bump one of DFS, THJ or SD. Or, is Wood going out in the package. If so, expiring Powell is your only remaining viable big. So a Wood outgoing trade has to bring back a center whether they are the primary target of the secondary target.
Or, maybe we are just trying to put a band-aide on the hole created by Maxi’s injury? So, some cheap expiring PF type who provides more than Bertans (Wood/Powell are your centers and DFS/???? Are your fours).
Whether you are willing to bring Powell back in a bench role is another factor. If yes, then Gafford isn’t really a factor if the plan is for Wood and Powell to be your centers next season. If no, then Gafford/Rui makes some sense. Gafford as a Powell replacement who could come off the bench or play with Wood against certain opponents. Rui would be a tryout/ST solution to replace Maxi.
I kind of like Vanderbilt as a LT solution at the four next to Wood at the five. I’d like a deal that brings Vandy and Conley, but it would cost us something. I was also playing around with something that netted Collins and Okongwu (Atlanta ends up with Wood and Crowder). I’d be willing to give up the 2025 pick and maybe even Hardy if it brought back a young starting piece like Vanderbilt or Toppin or Okongwu. I’d also give up a pick for Poeltl, but that would be quite the change of direction here. I would not bring Collins here to be a starting five. I think Green has a chance of being a really nice two-way starter here. I wouldn’t give him up for anything less than a Top 20 type who is 28 or younger.
(01-01-2023, 12:09 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I kind of like Vanderbilt as a LT solution at the four next to Wood at the five. I’d like a deal that brings Vandy and Conley, but it would cost us something.
If they could pull this off, my feelings about the ceiling for this team over the next couple of seasons would change significantly. The window might be even more open if they did so without including Green or Hardy somehow. I think Vanderbilt is a great piece moving forward, as he complements both Luka and Wood. Conley has maybe two seasons left of solid, difference making veteran play off the bench, and could help this team so much more than people might think in my view. If you're able to add him and still hold onto Hardy to replace him down the line...
(01-01-2023, 12:09 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I’d also give up a pick for Poeltl
I can't get here with you. I don't see anything special about this player. He's solid and his physical skills are fine (right now, guys like that slow down quickly, imo) but he just doesn't offer any basketball skills that change the game for you, imho. Not only would I not give up a pick for him, I'm not sure I'd want him on anything above the McGee contract.
Once upon a time PJ Washington was part of these conversations too.
(01-01-2023, 12:22 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I can't get here with you. I don't see anything special about this player. He's solid and his physical skills are fine (right now, guys like that slow down quickly, imo) but he just doesn't offer any basketball skills that change the game for you, imho. Not only would I not give up a pick for him, I'm not sure I'd want him on anything above the McGee contract.
I am very much with you on this, considering the trade value and salary expectations. I think he would be an immediate negative contract once resigned. Poeltl would be targeted and killed on defense in playoffs as demonstrated a couple of times yesterday. He can't defend ball handling guards/wings when switched on them and this would be exploited without mercy in the playoffs. Wood is a much better fit for Luka than Poeltl imho.
(01-01-2023, 12:44 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Once upon a time PJ Washington was part of these conversations too.
I think he'd be another ideal candidate for what you appropriately describe as a "bandaid for the Kleber injury" and one of the short term solutions with a good chance of being useful moving forward, too, with a healthy Kleber back in the fold.
I think he and Vanderbilt might be the best two options, if either are possible.
For my money, Vanderbilt is solidly in the "4" range, while Washington is another who
can play the 4, but who came onto the radar when Charlotte starting using him as a small ball 5. He's like a way cheaper Collins (in some ways), which could be a useful piece.
The hole is at the 4, imo, especially now that Kleber is down.
If they can add a player at that position who makes Kleber's minutes next year come more from the 5 than the 4, I think that's a good thing. It gives the team more options and greater flexibility. And, I think Kleber is more special at the 5, personally. At this point in time, most 4's can floor the ball, bring the ball up, threaten to score while facing up, etc. There's some of that starting to happen at the 5, too, but it's still rare, and Kleber can defend that type of center. He still offers a ton of value at the 5 just by pulling the biggest opposing player out of the paint (this is getting less rare, but it's still valuable). If he's playing the 5, you're probably running a lineup in which there are no easy marks to isolate with ball screens.
Adding that 4 I'm envisioning (think Vanderbilt, for discussion sake) comes with the risk that DFS won't be as good as he has been these past few seasons, playing more 3 than 4. There are certainly benefits to this change relative to defensive size and rebounding, but there is also risk there in the areas of offensive skill, defensive matchups, etc. I'm not sure I can predict how that would go for DFS. HOWEVER, if the new player is someone like Vanderbilt, AND we know they have Green ready for a bigger role, I'm less inclined to worry about that. If DFS can't hang at the 3, then move him to the bench (where he could backfill both positions at a luxurious level) or even trade him (if that luxurious level is too expensive for Cuban's taste). I don't say either thing lightly. There is only a specific, narrow range of players who'd make me feel good about potentially displacing DFS.
(01-01-2023, 12:51 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I am very much with you on this, considering the trade value and salary expectations. I think he would be an immediate negative contract once resigned. Poeltl would be targeted and killed on defense in playoffs as demonstrated a couple of times yesterday. He can't defend ball handling guards/wings when switched on them and this would be exploited without mercy in the playoffs. Wood is a much better fit for Luka than Poeltl imho.
Yeah, some might think this take a little oversimplified (and maybe they're correct, idk) but my feeling is that any big who MUST play drop coverage is a move in the wrong direction at this point, unless it's Jokic, Embiid or someone of that quality. And honestly, I'm not sure Embiid would be a good fit with Luka, since we're talking about it. Even someone like Gobert, who's obviously good enough to justify the play style corner he'd paint you into
right now would be a bad chess move in this day and age, considering the price you'd have to pay to get him and that you'd simply be waiting for him to inevitably slow down enough to become DeAndre Jordan. Maybe that happens in a month, a year, two years...maybe it has already happened, judging by Minnesota's struggles.
The bottom line for me: You just don't need players like that anymore, and even if you want one you're better off finding a cheap one who isn't quite as good.
My plan for center would be:
Plan A:
- extend Wood. Find a compromise and do it. I am fine with anything up to his max possible extension. The exception would be if you have a trade for a great player (2-way wing) lined up and Woods expiring contract is a must to make it happen. But don't screw this up by waiting till TDL, because you want to keep flexibility. I doubt Mavs have the ammo at this TDL for a big trade anyway.
- Resign Powell in the summer. Perhaps a 1+1 deal (second year team option) would be best from assets perspective. Powell can have a bit higher salary and Dallas can have an expiring contract ready at all times. If that is not possible, do it at max McGee value.
- well, Mavs screwed themselves nicely with McGee, so they are probably stuck with his contract as a third string center (I think he is just fine in such a role, but magnificently overpaid). I would not pay yet more assets to get rid of his contract, unless he is included in a much larger deal. If yes, than just find a vet min center. Plenty of those around all the time.
Plan B:
- Trade Wood at TDL. Extend Wood deal is not on the table for whatever reason. His value will not be high due to his expiring contract status, something around protected FRP and "not so horrible" contract back. Perhaps Charlotte would see him as their long term solution at center and offer Plumlee and Washington. Several contenders could always use such a skilled offensive weapon. Mavs will not contend with or without Wood this season, so don't repeat the Brunson mistake.
- the future of the center depends very much on the result of trade in the first point of Plan B. In any case, I would not invest great in the position, unless it is a clear top30 player who can switch on defense (hardly any of them around).
(01-01-2023, 12:09 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I’d probably add Vanderbilt to your list.
The first question that has to be answered is whether the addition is instead of or a compliment to Wood. Are we ready to commit to him? If so, then you are looking for a certain type of player. If yes on Wood, do we need the new player to start? If so, then they need to be good enough to bump one of DFS, THJ or SD. Or, is Wood going out in the package. If so, expiring Powell is your only remaining viable big. So a Wood outgoing trade has to bring back a center whether they are the primary target of the secondary target.
Or, maybe we are just trying to put a band-aide on the hole created by Maxi’s injury? So, some cheap expiring PF type who provides more than Bertans (Wood/Powell are your centers and DFS/???? Are your fours).
Whether you are willing to bring Powell back in a bench role is another factor. If yes, then Gafford isn’t really a factor if the plan is for Wood and Powell to be your centers next season. If no, then Gafford/Rui makes some sense. Gafford as a Powell replacement who could come off the bench or play with Wood against certain opponents. Rui would be a tryout/ST solution to replace Maxi.
I kind of like Vanderbilt as a LT solution at the four next to Wood at the five. I’d like a deal that brings Vandy and Conley, but it would cost us something. I was also playing around with something that netted Collins and Okongwu (Atlanta ends up with Wood and Crowder). I’d be willing to give up the 2025 pick and maybe even Hardy if it brought back a young starting piece like Vanderbilt or Toppin or Okongwu. I’d also give up a pick for Poeltl, but that would be quite the change of direction here. I would not bring Collins here to be a starting five. I think Green has a chance of being a really nice two-way starter here. I wouldn’t give him up for anything less than a Top 20 type who is 28 or younger.
IMO, I'd be inclined to find a compliment to Wood. If we remove Wood, we're still getting murdered on the boards since none of Kleber, DFS or Powell can grab defensive boards (looking at DRB%, they're at the bottom). Wood and Luka are our only defensive rebounders (Powell does a great job on the offensive boards, so I'd like to keep him). Luka has to spend so much of his energy on offense that I don't want him having to battle for rebounds and risk an injury.
Vanderbilt feels expensive for the little assets we have (I do not want to spend big mid-season). So my pick would be a band-aid guy to hold the fort. A 3rd playable rebounder (McGee was suposed to be that, but is unplayable) that could flourish next to Luka. Are Boucher or Covington available for cheap?
Bullock feels like the odd man out. Very shaky start of the season and his defense has dropped. He's still on a good deal and could help some team in need of wing depth.
What would we feel about a Holmes/Lyles/DAL 2nds (SAC has two of them) for Bullock/McGee ? SAC could use a wing and aren't playing Holmes much. Lyles could play the Maxi role (3-pt shooter/rebounder) until Maxi gets healthy. Holmes could revitalize his carrer playing here.
Doncic/Dinwiddie
Hardaway/Green
DFS/Ntilikina
Holmes/Lyles (Kleber)
Wood/Powell
Would we give up DFS for Collins? DFS/Bullock/McGee for Collins/J. Holiday/Kaminsky works and we still would have THJ/Bertans/all picks to upgrade in the summer. I know wings are very important in the post season, but not sure we can pass on the oportunity of adding a young starter to our core.
Doncic/Dinwiddie
Hardaway/Hardy
Green/Holiday
Collins/Kleber
Wood/Powell
(01-01-2023, 01:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]The hole is at the 4, imo, especially now that Kleber is down.
If they can add a player at that position who makes Kleber's minutes next year come more from the 5 than the 4, I think that's a good thing. It gives the team more options and greater flexibility. And, I think Kleber is more special at the 5, personally. At this point in time, most 4's can floor the ball, bring the ball up, threaten to score while facing up, etc. There's some of that starting to happen at the 5, too, but it's still rare, and Kleber can defend that type of center. He still offers a ton of value at the 5 just by pulling the biggest opposing player out of the paint (this is getting less rare, but it's still valuable). If he's playing the 5, you're probably running a lineup in which there are no easy marks to isolate with ball screens.
Adding that 4 I'm envisioning (think Vanderbilt, for discussion sake) comes with the risk that DFS won't be as good as he has been these past few seasons, playing more 3 than 4. There are certainly benefits to this change relative to defensive size and rebounding, but there is also risk there in the areas of offensive skill, defensive matchups, etc. I'm not sure I can predict how that would go for DFS. HOWEVER, if the new player is someone like Vanderbilt, AND we know they have Green ready for a bigger role, I'm less inclined to worry about that. If DFS can't hang at the 3, then move him to the bench (where he could backfill both positions at a luxurious level) or even trade him (if that luxurious level is too expensive for Cuban's taste). I don't say either thing lightly. There is only a specific, narrow range of players who'd make me feel good about potentially displacing DFS.
You’ve certainly harped on this concept a lot this year but I’m pretty inclined to disagree with this opinion and most of my reasoning you already laid out. I think DFS has proven that he is great to play the 4, I’ve never really felt he ever has size issues and I think he’s much better suited there than at the 3. The teams that are going after the vanderbilts and ruis of the league are the same ones who would be going after DFS for all the same reasons so I’m surprised this board is stuck on needing this skill set that already seems to exist on this roster via one of our few high level role players.
I think a lot of this is due to how you view Hardaway and are such a staunch defender of him. He’s a decent player and I try not to be too hard on him but the idea that his role isn’t the obviously role that needs upgrading is odd to me. Were talking about potentially moving DFS to the 3 where Hardaway is and the biggest problem there is that whoever we put into this role with our current roster (Hardaway/Bullock/DFS) is going to be a player that can’t play make or create their own shot to save their life. To me when I watch that it’s clear that we’re really just a two way wing away from being taken seriously (assuming we can keep Wood around) and that two way wing can be smaller or bigger than DFS in my opinion, but it can’t be another one dimensional player like Vanderbilt.
I don’t want to be thrown into your “group think” opinion on Hardaway and come off as I’m bashing him but if you don’t think we can clearly upgrade that spot and be a MUCH better team than I feel you’ve gone way too far in the other direction.
Agreed on the Green points, I really want him to be a two way player we can place next to Luka for years.
Also agreed on the Poeltl thoughts and your general view on centers and their worth.
(01-01-2023, 01:12 PM)HAguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]What would we feel about a Holmes
I think Holmes would be fourth center on a higher than vet min contract (counting Wood, Powell and McGee) on the Mavs and I don't see much sense in trading for him. If Wood is gone, than I could consider Holmes as an interesting buy low option for the position. He has proved not long ago that he can play very well. Bullock for Holmes should net us an asset. That is of course, if Sacramento sees any value in Bullock.