(03-04-2021, 08:50 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Me either. The only thing I thought was that Harp should have phrased the question about "the best player being out" as "one of your best players", it just seems disrespectful to KP.
Ya I did feel like Harp didn't need to say that to KP. It's pretty obvious to everyone that Luka is the best player but KP is still supposed to be his "co-star" so you don't have to rub it in his face.
(03-04-2021, 03:37 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]RE: KP & Luka's Relationship
I am 100% convinced (more than ever) that the KP & Luka relationship is broken right now (beyond repair? hard to say, but seems like that might be the case).
I have a new theory (might not be new, but I don’t recall reading it). What if the agent/brother told the Brain Trust that KP is unhappy and to protect his reputation, sought permission to quietly gauge interest. Donnie/Cuban know things aren’t working and say yes (which gives them plausible deniability and maybe even plausible indignation at the suggestion they were making calls). Where do you go first if you are KP? Yeah, Golden State. Me too. Big contracts to trade. Plenty of spacing and a Point PF who could care less about shooting (and plays good perimeter D). Its a nice fit and a wonderful outcome for the sequence of big contracts that started with the DRussell S&T.
So, my theory is a deal was proposed. Maybe there was some haggling. Eventually someone said no. GS thinks they hold the cards and decides to squeeze Dallas a little by finding a way to make this public. Maybe this getting out forces Dallas to come back to the table. After all, there aren’t that many viable options. Instead Dallas gets pissed. They tell KP to STFU and play. He does, but he just can’t help his passive aggressive nature (I read this the same as Kamm).
This feels like a divorce is coming. Dallas needs to find leverage (a viable second team or even a third). Washington is in the picture. Schwartz goes to work (Dallas will make a max offer to Collins) bringing Atlanta into the picture. Peak pressure will be right at the TDL as long as KP stays healthy and keeps his mouth shut. If I’m in charge, I don’t wait. I’m lining up the deal after the KP deal and I’m doing the KP deal relatively soon. Give the new team as much time to gel as possible. BTW, one way of making this all about Schwartz is to do this with Atlanta and bring in Collins (PF) and Drummond ©.
Atlanta gets KP and JRich (good defender next to Young)
Cleveland gets expiring Snell and Johnson (and some draft compensation from someone)
Dallas gets Bogdanovic (3 guard rotation w/Luka and Brunson), Collins and Drummond
Collins is kept this summer. Drummond’s status depends on how he fits and whether Dallas can sign Holmes for less.
(03-05-2021, 01:47 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I have a new theory (might not be new, but I don’t recall reading it). What if the agent/brother told the Brain Trust that KP is unhappy and to protect his reputation, sought permission to quietly gauge interest. Donnie/Cuban know things aren’t working and say yes (which gives them plausible deniability and maybe even plausible indignation at the suggestion they were making calls). Where do you go first if you are KP? Yeah, Golden State. Me too. Big contracts to trade. Plenty of spacing and a Point PF who could care less about shooting (and plays good perimeter D). Its a nice fit and a wonderful outcome for the sequence of big contracts that started with the DRussell S&T.
So, my theory is a deal was proposed. Maybe there was some haggling. Eventually someone said no. GS thinks they hold the cards and decides to squeeze Dallas a little by finding a way to make this public. Maybe this getting out forces Dallas to come back to the table. After all, there aren’t that many viable options. Instead Dallas gets pissed. They tell KP to STFU and play. He does, but he just can’t help his passive aggressive nature (I read this the same as Kamm).
This feels like a divorce is coming. Dallas needs to find leverage (a viable second team or even a third). Washington is in the picture. Schwartz goes to work (Dallas will make a max offer to Collins) bringing Atlanta into the picture. Peak pressure will be right at the TDL as long as KP stays healthy and keeps his mouth shut. If I’m in charge, I don’t wait. I’m lining up the deal after the KP deal and I’m doing the KP deal relatively soon. Give the new team as much time to gel as possible. BTW, one way of making this all about Schwartz is to do this with Atlanta and bring in Collins (PF) and Drummond ©.
Atlanta gets KP and JRich (good defender next to Young)
Cleveland gets expiring Snell and Johnson (and some draft compensation from someone)
Dallas gets Bogdanovic (3 guard rotation w/Luka and Brunson), Collins and Drummond
Collins is kept this summer. Drummond’s status depends on how he fits and whether Dallas can sign Holmes for less.
Squeeze Nico Mannion out of that GS deal.
(03-05-2021, 01:47 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I have a new theory (might not be new, but I don’t recall reading it). What if the agent/brother told the Brain Trust that KP is unhappy and to protect his reputation, sought permission to quietly gauge interest. Donnie/Cuban know things aren’t working and say yes (which gives them plausible deniability and maybe even plausible indignation at the suggestion they were making calls). Where do you go first if you are KP? Yeah, Golden State. Me too. Big contracts to trade. Plenty of spacing and a Point PF who could care less about shooting (and plays good perimeter D). Its a nice fit and a wonderful outcome for the sequence of big contracts that started with the DRussell S&T.
So, my theory is a deal was proposed. Maybe there was some haggling. Eventually someone said no. GS thinks they hold the cards and decides to squeeze Dallas a little by finding a way to make this public. Maybe this getting out forces Dallas to come back to the table. After all, there aren’t that many viable options. Instead Dallas gets pissed. They tell KP to STFU and play. He does, but he just can’t help his passive aggressive nature (I read this the same as Kamm).
This feels like a divorce is coming. Dallas needs to find leverage (a viable second team or even a third). Washington is in the picture. Schwartz goes to work (Dallas will make a max offer to Collins) bringing Atlanta into the picture. Peak pressure will be right at the TDL as long as KP stays healthy and keeps his mouth shut. If I’m in charge, I don’t wait. I’m lining up the deal after the KP deal and I’m doing the KP deal relatively soon. Give the new team as much time to gel as possible. BTW, one way of making this all about Schwartz is to do this with Atlanta and bring in Collins (PF) and Drummond ©.
Atlanta gets KP and JRich (good defender next to Young)
Cleveland gets expiring Snell and Johnson (and some draft compensation from someone)
Dallas gets Bogdanovic (3 guard rotation w/Luka and Brunson), Collins and Drummond
Collins is kept this summer. Drummond’s status depends on how he fits and whether Dallas can sign Holmes for less.
![[Image: 9bb7702f51a1cd6aa4169e1c16407709242ac62d.gif]](https://66.media.tumblr.com/4e91c766b301d4cc91420a8a4e6c071c/6929c521d2e9440e-8d/s500x750/9bb7702f51a1cd6aa4169e1c16407709242ac62d.gif)
I would prob rather have Gallo and Collins which also makes sense in that KP would be taking their spot on ATL's team. I am not sure a Collins/Maxi frontcourt would be very good but Mavs might just do some kind of defensive center by committee and have Collins be your starting PF.
My favorite deals are still some Wiseman-centered GS deal (assuming MBT believes he will be a star) or just grabbing a ton of picks/young players from Washington to build up the war chest for a move to be had in the future. If I am the Wiz I would love to have a big 3 that could actually make noise in the playoffs.
(03-05-2021, 01:47 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]So, my theory is a deal was proposed. Maybe there was some haggling. Eventually someone said no. GS thinks they hold the cards and decides to squeeze Dallas a little by finding a way to make this public. Maybe this getting out forces Dallas to come back to the table. After all, there aren’t that many viable options. Instead Dallas gets pissed. They tell KP to STFU and play. He does, but he just can’t help his passive aggressive nature (I read this the same as Kamm).
https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1364243386232754176
The quote from the Western conference exec and Cuban's response make me think you are spot on. No way someone says that about KP unless they are trying to publicly minimize his trade value and scare off other possible suitors. No way someone says that to a reporter randomly without an agenda.
And here is the GSW connection for those that don't remember:
https://sny.tv/articles/gauging-trade-va...o-warriors
And here is the WAS connection:
https://fortyeightminutes.com/wizards-mo...situation/
And here is the Collins connection:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2933...rade-value
The GSW connection and the Western conference exec comments were clearly from someone other than the Mavs.
The WAS connection and the Collins piece, as @"DanSchwartzgan" states, almost certainly are then generated by the Mavs. The WAS piece feels like the Mavs getting something like this out:
"Teams are definitely interested in KP and would love him, but it doesn't feel like he is really available."
That is totally a message the Mavs want out circling in the public and among GMs.
I don't think the Mavs are into leaking to the media as a general rule.
I think this is a case of creating a narrative out of nothing.
I don't see this constant passive aggressiveness you guys are talking about with KP. He made 1 comment about minutes. And guess what since the change he's performed much better.
It doesn't make sense at all to trade KP, even if he wants out.
(03-05-2021, 02:58 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I am not sure a Collins/Maxi frontcourt would be very good but Mavs might just do some kind of defensive center by committee and have Collins be your starting PF.
Oh, absolutely that would be the plan. Collins is going to be making $25-$28mm next year. He would definitely be the starter. To get the most out of Maxi, there would need to be some overlap with Collins and Maxi's minutes, but I don't see the two of them starting. Full MLE to Holmes.
(03-05-2021, 03:45 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]The GSW connection and the Western conference exec comments were clearly from someone other than the Mavs.
The WAS connection and the Collins piece, as @"DanSchwartzgan" states, almost certainly are then generated by the Mavs. The WAS piece feels like the Mavs getting something like this out:
"Teams are definitely interested in KP and would love him, but it doesn't feel like he is really available."
That is totally a message the Mavs want out circling in the public and among GMs.
Thanks for posting the retrospective.
I haven't seen this myself, but I recall reading a reference to KP liking or otherwise responding to a tweet about a trade to GS. It was taken down quickly. Have you seen that anywhere?
(03-05-2021, 01:47 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I have a new theory (might not be new, but I don’t recall reading it). What if the agent/brother told the Brain Trust that KP is unhappy and to protect his reputation, sought permission to quietly gauge interest. Donnie/Cuban know things aren’t working and say yes (which gives them plausible deniability and maybe even plausible indignation at the suggestion they were making calls). Where do you go first if you are KP? Yeah, Golden State. Me too. Big contracts to trade. Plenty of spacing and a Point PF who could care less about shooting (and plays good perimeter D). Its a nice fit and a wonderful outcome for the sequence of big contracts that started with the DRussell S&T.
So, my theory is a deal was proposed. Maybe there was some haggling. Eventually someone said no. GS thinks they hold the cards and decides to squeeze Dallas a little by finding a way to make this public. Maybe this getting out forces Dallas to come back to the table. After all, there aren’t that many viable options. Instead Dallas gets pissed. They tell KP to STFU and play. He does, but he just can’t help his passive aggressive nature (I read this the same as Kamm).
This feels like a divorce is coming. Dallas needs to find leverage (a viable second team or even a third). Washington is in the picture. Schwartz goes to work (Dallas will make a max offer to Collins) bringing Atlanta into the picture. Peak pressure will be right at the TDL as long as KP stays healthy and keeps his mouth shut. If I’m in charge, I don’t wait. I’m lining up the deal after the KP deal and I’m doing the KP deal relatively soon. Give the new team as much time to gel as possible. BTW, one way of making this all about Schwartz is to do this with Atlanta and bring in Collins (PF) and Drummond ©.
Atlanta gets KP and JRich (good defender next to Young)
Cleveland gets expiring Snell and Johnson (and some draft compensation from someone)
Dallas gets Bogdanovic (3 guard rotation w/Luka and Brunson), Collins and Drummond
Collins is kept this summer. Drummond’s status depends on how he fits and whether Dallas can sign Holmes for less.
Does this kill my THT dream? If so, it's probably ture.
(03-05-2021, 01:47 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I have a new theory (might not be new, but I don’t recall reading it). What if the agent/brother told the Brain Trust that KP is unhappy and to protect his reputation, sought permission to quietly gauge interest. Donnie/Cuban know things aren’t working and say yes (which gives them plausible deniability and maybe even plausible indignation at the suggestion they were making calls). Where do you go first if you are KP? Yeah, Golden State. Me too. Big contracts to trade. Plenty of spacing and a Point PF who could care less about shooting (and plays good perimeter D). Its a nice fit and a wonderful outcome for the sequence of big contracts that started with the DRussell S&T.
So, my theory is a deal was proposed. Maybe there was some haggling. Eventually someone said no. GS thinks they hold the cards and decides to squeeze Dallas a little by finding a way to make this public. Maybe this getting out forces Dallas to come back to the table. After all, there aren’t that many viable options. Instead Dallas gets pissed. They tell KP to STFU and play. He does, but he just can’t help his passive aggressive nature (I read this the same as Kamm).
This feels like a divorce is coming. Dallas needs to find leverage (a viable second team or even a third). Washington is in the picture. Schwartz goes to work (Dallas will make a max offer to Collins) bringing Atlanta into the picture. Peak pressure will be right at the TDL as long as KP stays healthy and keeps his mouth shut. If I’m in charge, I don’t wait. I’m lining up the deal after the KP deal and I’m doing the KP deal relatively soon. Give the new team as much time to gel as possible. BTW, one way of making this all about Schwartz is to do this with Atlanta and bring in Collins (PF) and Drummond ©.
Atlanta gets KP and JRich (good defender next to Young)
Cleveland gets expiring Snell and Johnson (and some draft compensation from someone)
Dallas gets Bogdanovic (3 guard rotation w/Luka and Brunson), Collins and Drummond
Collins is kept this summer. Drummond’s status depends on how he fits and whether Dallas can sign Holmes for less.
Let me start by saying I would rather keep KP. OTOH if this theory is correct and KP is making the first move to start this chain of events, then I see no way this works out in the long run. The trade, timing and players you listed make sense to salvage the situation.
I can't see how he would any happier in GS as far as being the guy. He would be like the 4th dude there. I have a hard time believing his relationship is that bad with Luka.
I would also like to get Collins (the Hawks best current player) and add him to Luka (would have been the Hawks best player). Poor Hawks fan.
(03-05-2021, 06:11 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]I would also like to get Collins (the Hawks best current player) and add him to Luka (would have been the Hawks best player). Poor Hawks fan.
I just don't see why they'd let him walk and on the flip side I worry that he's an empty calorie type of player.
(03-05-2021, 04:31 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I think this is a case of creating a narrative out of nothing.
I don't see this constant passive aggressiveness you guys are talking about with KP. He made 1 comment about minutes. And guess what since the change he's performed much better.
I agree. I definitely get the impression that people are reading absolutely everything they can into KP's words and actions to support the narrative they have in their minds that he's bitter and wants out. But read the exact same comments out of that context, and he's really not saying anything unusual at all. His interview after the last game was a great example. Honestly I perked up when Harp asked a horribly leading question that seemed intentionally designed to piss off anyone who really does have a chip on his shoulder. But KP handled it like a pro.
Now there very well may be stuff going on behind the scenes where various parties are talking about long-term fit and potential trade options. But even if it's true, I respect KP for the way he's handling it. This is way different from the DSJ situation.
(03-05-2021, 06:26 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]This is way different from the DSJ situation.
He is absolutely handling this situation, whatever it is, way better than DSJ did. That’s a very good point.
Count me in the club that doesn't buy the theory of KP relationship destroyed. In the first place, because it is a situation most likely everyone will lose. Here is how I see it.
1. Luka will lose. First they sold all their vets (Jordan, Matthews, Barnes) and rising star DSJ, because they couldn't play with Luka. Now they are selling KP because he can't play with Luka. Or is it perhaps Luka that is the problem? He is an immature, ball hogging wannabe star. Lesser version of Harden and he needed 10 years before realizing he can't do it alone. I can go on and on, the stories write themselves...
2. KP loses. He is a primadona who isn't satisfied anywhere. High maintenance, idiot brother. He got his huge contract and started sulking. Happened in New York, happened in Dallas and will happen wherever he goes. It's not like Mavs treated him badly. Gave him max contract before he played a minute for them. Patiently waited for him to come back from injury, patiently waited for him to get back into shape only to injure himself again. And then he dares complain. Its not like he doesn't get the ball. And if sharing and moving the ball is the problem, he can just look at his assists number and compare that to Luka. Stories write themselves. Not to mention the biggest breaking news for KP - you are not satisfied being the beta with Mavs but you think you will be more important next to Curry, Thompson, Green and the rest? Or next to Beal and Westbrook? Yeah, once they trade both of them... I doubt there is a team that would trade for KP to make him their alpha.
3. Mavs lose. KP is their biggest investment. If he goes, the reputation of the team and their biggest star will be most likely damaged badly (look above for the stories that write themselves). Even if they get equal value back, they will have much harder time building the team.
4. It is in everyones best interest to make this work. Luka was not a heliocentric player before coming to Dallas. I am sure Mavs listen very carefully to what KP has to say and try to serve him as best as they can. He is their biggest investment. Bigger investment than Luka.
5. What would the potential buyer get from getting to the media? Is that really a way to force the Mavs or is that a way to break negotiations? Mavs are still in full control of KP. Sure he can force himself out, but neither of those guys (Davis, Harden) was sold for pennies on the dollar. Their teams knew it is game over and waited until fair offer was on the table. Why would Mavs sell him for pennies on the dollar, just because the relationship is broken? I don't think GMs care about what is written in the media and make their decisions based on newspaper articles. I don't think Mavs are moved if a couple of bad things are written about KP and it doesn't make them rethink their valuation of him.
6. Sure, people sometimes make irrational decisions. I surely hope this is not the case with these guys involved, It would be a big setback for Mavs.
I don't think there is much truth to any of this either but I do think KP is frustrated and justifiably so. A combination of having to fill the Robin role, mounting injuries and how he's being used by the coaching staff. I think he's said all the right things publically and that's admirable.
Trading him now is a gamble. The Mavs will never return the value the spent on him and that's not a knock on the acquisition. Setting aside the injury concern, is he trending more towards Bubble KP or the opposite direction? I still can't imagine the Mavs not wanting to see how he looks the rest of the season.
If he stays or if he goes, I think it's time to part ways with Carlisle this offseason. For a rebuilding team, he just isn't malleable enough to get the best out of what he is given and has way too many player conflicts for my liking. This would be doubly true if we trade KP and he starts to look like an all-star again.
Rick is not going anywhere.