Since we're talking about the roster, Bertans is an awesome playoff weapon. Of course he's not a 30 minute guy but I guarantee Kidd kept the powder dry on running plays for him. Kidd unleashed the Laser in game 4 and now it gives the Suns something else to worry about.
How do you plan for a guy who might get zero minutes in the second half or who might just shoot the lights out from three?
Cam Johnson is that guy for Phoenix. He can't keep guys in front of him any better than Bertans, but I don't fear his shooting. Not like Davis Bertans. In fact, after all the fireworks, Bertans was only 4 of 6 from three. Who would be surprised if he has a 5 of 7 performance in him?
(05-09-2022, 04:15 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]Since we're talking about the roster, Bertans is an awesome playoff weapon. Of course he's not a 30 minute guy but I guarantee Kidd kept the powder dry on running plays for him. Kidd unleashed the Laser in game 4 and now it gives the Suns something else to worry about.
How do you plan for a guy who might get zero minutes in the second half or who might just shoot the lights out from three?
Cam Johnson is that guy for Phoenix. He can't keep guys in front of him any better than Bertans, but I don't fear his shooting. Not like Davis Bertans. In fact, after all the fireworks, Bertans was only 4 of 6 from three. Who would be surprised if he has a 5 of 7 performance in him?
What I like about Bertans is that he's a shooter who's LOOKING to shoot. I think back on days when we had the likes of Matt Carrol or Steve Novak and they hardly played and when they did he seemed like they didn't get shots up anyway. The way Bertans just fires away as soon as he touches it almost makes me laugh because of how much confidence he has in those moments but it shows that he understands his role.
(05-09-2022, 04:01 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is that THJ is coming back so it will be hard to carve out minutes for both Frank and Josh.
I keep operating under the assumption that THJ is going to be moved this offseason but that's probably unwise of me. I just can't see how he cracks this rotation now that Brunson and Dinwiddie are getting all these minutes. Does he play behind Bullock? Can we even afford to go that small?
(05-09-2022, 03:44 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]I think we can almost see the ceiling of both players.
You may end up being right but I feel like maybe watching Luka has skewed the way you evaluate player development. You realize we're talking about two kids who can't even legally rent a car yet most places...
(05-09-2022, 04:39 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]I keep operating under the assumption that THJ is going to be moved this offseason but that's probably unwise of me. I just can't see how he cracks this rotation now that Brunson and Dinwiddie are getting all these minutes. Does he play behind Bullock? Can we even afford to go that small?
The THJ situation will be an interesting one to monitor. He has a real skill as a volume shooter. He seems to be a really well liked player and one of the leaders on the team.
The team has evolved since his injury. Brunson is the starter. Dinwiddie is the 6th man. Bullock and DFS are the glue 3 and D starters. Even Bertans offers the Mavs another sniper.
I have really enjoyed Timmy as a Mav, I just don't know what his fit would/will be.
Hardaway and Bertans are similar players so maybe we choose one to keep and one is traded
(05-09-2022, 04:14 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]If you can already see Green's ceiling, then you have a better eye than I do. He is already an above average defensive player. If he can be a little more assertive in pulling the trigger on 3s at a little higher percentage, that will be enough for him to be a very useful player.
It's not so much me personally. There are reasons Green isn't playing now. There are reasons Frankie doesn't play much.
For Green, it may be that he is simply not very good at making quick decisions. Maybe his instincts just aren't enough for the professional game. It may be that he gets confused on the court in certain situations. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure the coaches know.
All we see as fans is that the guy has energy. The G League is full of those guys. But I don't think it's fair to assume that the NBA game can translate because he's athletic. He's had over a year and he can't stay in a professional game for very long. If Josh is a better-than-average defender, why is Frankie playing his minutes? The coaches trust Frankie more than Josh at this point, and it could be for a lot of reasons that have to do with Xs and Os.
There are always players who sometimes figure it all out a little later. Maybe Josh is one of them. But a sophomore player
like Josh who can't get minutes almost never becomes a full-time starter on an NBA team. You're spending time and money grooming a player who can't be played in a playoff game.
My point is not that Josh couldn't eventually find his way to more minutes. He might. My point is that this team is thin. Josh's "potential" isn't important enough gamble with when you have a playoff team that needs upgrading badly. I think it's fairly clear he is not going to be a starter, and he's struggling to be a rotation player. This team is better off with an experienced bench.
(05-09-2022, 05:30 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Hardaway and Bertans are similar players so maybe we choose one to keep and one is traded
It will be a lot cheaper to trade THJ. The one thought I had was Bertans + pick for Holmes, but I doubt they go for that.
In a best case scenario we sign Hartenstein to the tax MLE and use the pick for BPA
Another option would be to send the pick for PJ Washington.
In those cases we would still have both guys. If Cuban is choking on the tax he could stretch waive Bertans, but we have multiple useless expiring contracts we could waive for roster spots (Brown, Burke, Boban).
(05-09-2022, 04:48 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]You may end up being right but I feel like maybe watching Luka has skewed the way you evaluate player development.
Even if that's true, it's still Luca's team. If Green doesn't fit in a system designed around Luca, then he needs a new home.
If Brunson and Din can bring it tomorrow night they’ll have a shot. Those two have been awful in Phoenix, well Din the whole series but, I digress.
(05-09-2022, 06:42 PM)Dirknows Wrote: [ -> ]If Brunson and Din can bring it tomorrow night they’ll have a shot. Those two have been awful in Phoenix, well Din the whole series but, I digress.
This is what makes me hopeful. Our core players haven't had a good game together in this series yet. If we can get in lockstep for game five, that might break the will of the Suns.
(05-09-2022, 04:51 PM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: [ -> ]Brunson is the starter. Dinwiddie is the 6th man.
Agree Brunson is the starter but I'm not sure Dinwiddie is the sixth man, at least in the classic, instant offense off the bench sort of way.
Spencer is a very good basketball player. He can get 30. But he also looks comfortable as a ball mover and quality, do-everything rotation piece. He'll have what seems to be an off game but he'll have 4-5 rebounds, 4-5 assists, maybe 9 points. He's not aggressive enough to come off the bench and immediately change the game with his scoring. Or at least not in his current role.
THJ on the other hand is a guy that can come off the bench and launch 3-4 quality threes
each half. He gets shots up. And despite his poor shooting to start the season, Kidd said he thought THJ could be an All-Star with the right focus on defense. He was the Mavs second best player over the last two postseasons.
Let's not forget the entire Mavs offense functioned like crap at the beginning of the year. KP was the starting power forward and Cauley-Stein was in the rotation. Then some guy named Moses. This is a totally different team now.
I can EASILY see THJ fitting into a high-powered five out concept next year.
(05-09-2022, 06:26 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]It's not so much me personally. There are reasons Green isn't playing now. There are reasons Frankie doesn't play much.
For Green, it may be that he is simply not very good at making quick decisions. Maybe his instincts just aren't enough for the professional game. It may be that he gets confused on the court in certain situations. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure the coaches know.
All we see as fans is that the guy has energy. The G League is full of those guys. But I don't think it's fair to assume that the NBA game can translate because he's athletic. He's had over a year and he can't stay in a professional game for very long. If Josh is a better-than-average defender, why is Frankie playing his minutes? The coaches trust Frankie more than Josh at this point, and it could be for a lot of reasons that have to do with Xs and Os.
There are always players who sometimes figure it all out a little later. Maybe Josh is one of them. But a sophomore player like Josh who can't get minutes almost never becomes a full-time starter on an NBA team. You're spending time and money grooming a player who can't be played in a playoff game.
My point is not that Josh couldn't eventually find his way to more minutes. He might. My point is that this team is thin. Josh's "potential" isn't important enough gamble with when you have a playoff team that needs upgrading badly. I think it's fairly clear he is not going to be a starter, and he's struggling to be a rotation player. This team is better off with an experienced bench.
There are a lot of factors going into minutes by rookies and sophomores. They are going to get more on bad teams and less on good teams. But lets look at some examples. Green got 16 minutes a game this year. Some of the other players on the team in their sophomore years:
Maxi: 21 (5 years older)
Dorian: 21 (3 years older)
Brunson: 18 (2 years older)
Powell: 14 (3 years older)
Dinwiddie: 13 (1 year older)
Bullock: 9 (2 years older)
Does not really seem like Green's minutes are that different from most of our starters and he is younger than all of them in his sophomore year. If minutes are our metric, then he is doing just fine.
(05-09-2022, 03:52 PM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]Note that Mavs are the most physical team. They were more physical than Utah as well. Big contrast to last year team, significant improvement. If you are more physical than your opponent, chances are higher you will win, this just has tendency to get into the mind of opponents. Not only more physical, but also smarter in some close 50-50 situations, where details matter. It's incredible to see Luka lead the way in this regard. Earlier in his career, he would have been maybe ejected from the last game after the first technical foul. Instead, he diminished the talking to refs, played mind game with opponents, and he channeled his huge anger into different ways of outsmarting the Suns, and even outsmarting the smartest of NBA players in Paul. It's clear Luka doesn't want to lose, and leads by example.
If Mavs stay the more physical team, they will advance from this series. Play smarter and more physical, and I would say the Suns don't even have a chance. Now the Mavs have adjusted, and put pressure on the Suns that need to re-adjust their approach and tactics, because if things stay as they are, Suns are out. This is huge pressure they are on, and we will see what they are made of. It's incredible our team is doing something like this against the best team in the league. That's incredibly promising for this young core of players going forward.
I wouldn't count the Suns out yet.
(05-09-2022, 06:48 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]Agree Brunson is the starter but I'm not sure Dinwiddie is the sixth man, at least in the classic, instant offense off the bench sort of way.
Spencer is a very good basketball player. He can get 30. But he also looks comfortable as a ball mover and quality, do-everything rotation piece. He'll have what seems to be an off game but he'll have 4-5 rebounds, 4-5 assists, maybe 9 points. He's not aggressive enough to come off the bench and immediately change the game with his scoring. Or at least not in his current role.
THJ on the other hand is a guy that can come off the bench and launch 3-4 quality threes each half. He gets shots up. And despite his poor shooting to start the season, Kidd said he thought THJ could be an All-Star with the right focus on defense. He was the Mavs second best player over the last two postseasons.
Let's not forget the entire Mavs offense functioned like crap at the beginning of the year. KP was the starting power forward and Cauley-Stein was in the rotation. Then some guy named Moses. This is a totally different team now.
I can EASILY see THJ fitting into a high-powered five out concept next year.
One of the reasons I love this board. That’s a good take on the differences between Spence and THJ off the bench.
I would love to see THJ be a part of a contending Dallas team because he has been such a great teammate and tireless worker in his time here. Powell is the same in that regard.
Mavs will have some tough decisions to make this offseason. They know the areas they need to improve but they also have an incredibly solid chemistry they need to protect. It will be a balancing act.
(05-09-2022, 06:52 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Does not really seem like Green's minutes are that different from most of our starters and he is younger than all of them in his sophomore year. If minutes are our metric, then he is doing just fine.
You keep talking about years. This game just isn't about years. The coaching staff is projecting skill, and they've had well over a year to look at him. He's having a hard time staying in a playoff game because of his skill, not because of his age.
I'm willing to bet Green is still given a look by the front office because first-round draft picks should get that much of a look. If he were a mid 2nd-round pick, I venture he'd be playing exclusively in the G League. That's where he should be right now.