(04-19-2022, 04:43 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]He's taken 9 shots in 16 minutes.
Hmm....well, there's that
(04-19-2022, 04:43 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]He's taken 9 shots in 16 minutes.
He should have taken a lot more. Utah are begging him to do so. They put Gobert on him and he just sags off leaving him all the space in the world to shoot like it's a pregame warmup shot. I don't care if he missed every single one. Accept the challenge and keep pulling the trigger. That would have showed me something. Instead, we get his one make which is the most troublesome thing he's shown on the offensive end. He's handling the ball, going towards and then away from Gobert before finally nailing the pull-up J. You can clearly hear the crowd and his teammates begging him to shoot.
(04-19-2022, 04:43 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]He's taken 9 shots in 16 minutes.
Ya, he's taken some shots, I think what cow is pointing to (albeit with hyperbole) is the amount of shots he's not really taking. I think he could do well if he practiced that 1 rhythm dribble inside the 3 pt line and shoot. JB has been finding the space to shoot around Gobert, this to me is a solution. I saw him do it once in last game and he made it (or was it game 1...). Either way, the dribble in the lane with nothing else to do has happened at least 1 too many times.
(04-19-2022, 04:54 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]Second (0.56) only to Jalen Brunson (0.59) in shots per minute. He's not on the floor for his offense. Expecting/Asking him to shoot every trip down the floor is something Utah wants.
When the opposing defense refuses to cover you, you should be the team leader in that stat. I'd rather have Kidd bench him for building a brick house than his teammates begging him to shoot. Yes, Utah wants him to shoot every time, but the worst thing you can do is not exploit that and then let them play 5v4 against your offense. Not shooting hurts the rest of the team. Goodbye spacing. Goodbye driving lanes.
(04-19-2022, 04:57 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]When the opposing defense refuses to cover you, you should be the team leader in that stat. I'd rather have Kidd bench him for building a brick house than his teammates begging him to shoot. Yes, Utah wants him to shoot every time, but the worst thing you can do is not exploit that and then let them play 5v4 against your offense. Not shooting hurts the rest of the team.
I don't disagree with most of what you're saying. Where we differ is that I don't consider missing shots as someone who is terrified or terrible. Clearly he isn't hitting his shot and has taken several (by his standards) but that can change at any moment - Maxi is a good example (who is 0.32 shots per minute) and just as wide open.
(04-19-2022, 04:57 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]When the opposing defense refuses to cover you, you should be the team leader in that stat. I'd rather have Kidd bench him for building a brick house than his teammates begging him to shoot. Yes, Utah wants him to shoot every time, but the worst thing you can do is not exploit that and then let them play 5v4 against your offense. Not shooting hurts the rest of the team. Goodbye spacing. Goodbye driving lanes.
This is literally the the conversation had about Ben Simmons last year. I side with cow in this one as I sided with those who hated Ben last year for not shooting more.
And if Kidd wants to keep playing him, he and Josh's teammates need to have a conversation with him. Go pick his favorite spot on the floor to shoot from and tell him stand there on every offensive trip. Let him know the ball is coming his way every time and every time Gobert refuses to come out on him, we expect him to shoot it and we are going to keep coming back to him, make or miss.
(04-19-2022, 05:02 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]I don't disagree with most of what you're saying. Where we differ is that I don't consider missing shots as someone who is terrified or terrible. Clearly he isn't hitting his shot and has taken several (by his standards) but that can change at any moment - Maxi is a good example (who is 0.32 shots per minute) and just as wide open.
My terrified comments have zero to do with his missed shots.
Reputations are built in the playoffs, in a make or miss league - Green has and may continue to have opportunities to show that he is a capable shooter. If I were Utah I would cover him the same way they guarded Maxi and make second year player Josh Green beat me or slumping Maxi before that. He can be a hero or a zero but you're right... He will need to shoot at his uncharacteristic high rate and make them respect him or not be on the floor much.
(04-19-2022, 03:20 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks HM. Have a great day out in the real world, my friend.
@"fifteenth"
Thank you, sir.
So ...
I went to
GIANT BURGER, and now I'm too lazy to type a scholarly treatise on the finer points of advanced basketball statistics.
Blah blah blah ...
Blah blah blah ...
Blah blah blah ...
[Please fill in the gaps for me.]
Etc.
And, speaking of poker ...
https://twitter.com/haralabob/status/151...7490491393
I get the Green doubt. Exactly how I felt about DFS after 2 seasons. At which point, DFS was a couple years older than Green is now, no? I’m not sure.
Anyway, I was wrong then. DFS wasn’t good at the time, but he was flashing. And the 3 ball came. Then a little bit of respect from the refs. Then a little better job with the handles. A little patience, and suddenly (year 6) he’s the #3 guy on the team. And not far behind #2 (Although #2 created a little breathing room with last night’s effort).
I see Josh on that kind of trajectory.
By my count, after reviewing the play by play, Clarkson went 3 of 4 from the field during the 6 minutes that Josh was on the floor, and 5 of 7 with Josh on the bench. That’s not enough of a sample size to conclude much, imho, except that Clarkson was riding a heat wave. His 8/11 on the night matched Maxi’s.
(04-19-2022, 10:54 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I'm curious what are your thoughts on Josh Green so far after 2 playoff games? Has the luster of him decreased a bit? I was ready for him to take a leap next year, but now seeing how dwarfed he looks out there makes me think he has a very long way to go to be a rotation player?
It is certainly disappointing, but not terribly unexpected. My view of his outlook hasn't changed really. When was the last time Josh played on this big of a stage? A single Conference Tournament game as a college freshman (where he scored 19 on 50% shooting)? People say the NBA playoffs are almost a different sport than the regular season. So, after what is essentially his rookie season we expect what?
Josh has been brought along VERY slowly this season. This is really the first time he's had much expected of him and the first time he's faced much adversity. I think what we are seeing is out of character for him. As I said a day or two ago, he's never had an 0/4 game from 3 and shot 45% in the games he took three or more 3's. Unfortunately, Kidd doesn't have the time to let him work it out on court. If the shots fall...great. If not...Reggie, we need 45 again tonight. Will it destroy his confidence? The story (even for this series) isn't written yet.
I think we better all hope either he or Bertans have an 8 to 11 point game in Utah and Dinwiddie goes off for 25 in the same game. We are not going to get 41 and 25 from JB and Maxi the next two games. Even if we got 30 and 12, we need to make up 18 points somewhere and there are only so many places to turn if Luka isn't back in games 3 and 4. If Green could just have a 2/3 night from deep and hit a fast break layup, it would be a huge lift.
I’d add this: Of all the guys on the team, Dwight is the one who suffers most from the lack of Luka on the offensive end. But on my list, Josh is #2. Bring back Luka and both of those guys can give you quality minutes.
(04-19-2022, 06:31 PM)Hogmelon Wrote: [ -> ]And, speaking of poker ...
I expect when/if Luka returns, we can expect to see that TOV% to rise quite a bit, probably around 11% like the Jazz are at right now. Ideally though Luka will balance these extra possessions out with this otherworldly scoring and hopefully can help with the rebounding.
If Luka comes back and that number stays the same then the Mavs are spoooky.
(04-19-2022, 07:26 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]It is certainly disappointing, but not terribly unexpected. My view of his outlook hasn't changed really. When was the last time Josh played on this big of a stage? A single Conference Tournament game as a college freshman (where he scored 19 on 50% shooting)? People say the NBA playoffs are almost a different sport than the regular season. So, after what is essentially his rookie season we expect what?
Josh has been brought along VERY slowly this season. This is really the first time he's had much expected of him and the first time he's faced much adversity. I think what we are seeing is out of character for him. As I said a day or two ago, he's never had an 0/4 game from 3 and shot 45% in the games he took three or more 3's. Unfortunately, Kidd doesn't have the time to let him work it out on court. If the shots fall...great. If not...Reggie, we need 45 again tonight. Will it destroy his confidence? The story (even for this series) isn't written yet.
I think we better all hope either he or Bertans have an 8 to 11 point game in Utah and Dinwiddie goes off for 25 in the same game. We are not going to get 41 and 25 from JB and Maxi the next two games. Even if we got 30 and 12, we need to make up 18 points somewhere and there are only so many places to turn if Luka isn't back in games 3 and 4. If Green could just have a 2/3 night from deep and hit a fast break layup, it would be a huge lift.
I am quite concerned for his confidence, but like you say the story isn't written. I will say even after going 0-4 in game 1, he still came out and shot with confidence (even if they didn't fall) in game 2. The results were poor, but that's promising.
Good points. I suppose I'm too impatient. I want Josh to succeed so badly because having production eases up the offensive pressure on everyone else.
Josh managed to make 1 shot this game after putting up 0-4 so we're already seeing his improvement! Here's him going 2-6 in game 3
(04-19-2022, 09:08 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Good points. I suppose I'm too impatient. I want Josh to succeed so badly because having production eases up the offensive pressure on everyone else.
This I understand. This isn't my argument though. I also understand people wanting to compare him to DFS (or Bruce Bowen). That's not my argument either. I am not looking at Josh Green in a vacuum. I'm looking at the Mavericks roster.
My argument is that the Mavs have serious needs now and this summer. They have very few trade pieces. Are there really people here that would rather keep Josh Green rather than use him in a trade for an upgrade at center?
(04-19-2022, 06:31 PM)Hogmelon Wrote: [ -> ]@"fifteenth"
Thank you, sir.
So ...
I went to GIANT BURGER, and now I'm too lazy to type a scholarly treatise on the finer points of advanced basketball statistics.
Blah blah blah ...
Blah blah blah ...
Blah blah blah ...
[Please fill in the gaps for me.]
Etc.
And, speaking of poker ...
https://twitter.com/haralabob/status/151...7490491393
Before I read Haralabos's answer I guessed 3 pt rate
(04-20-2022, 07:42 AM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]My argument is that the Mavs have serious needs now and this summer. They have very few trade pieces. Are there really people here that would rather keep Josh Green rather than use him in a trade for an upgrade at center?
My position on this (and it certainly doesn't have to be yours) is that we have a playoff series on our hands. I don't care about the offseason at the moment.
So you and I were talking past each other. I was talking about Josh in basketball games, his development, and young players in the playoffs, not about roster building.
(04-20-2022, 07:42 AM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]My argument is that the Mavs have serious needs now and this summer. They have very few trade pieces. Are there really people here that would rather keep Josh Green rather than use him in a trade for an upgrade at center?
I think I view Josh's potential a bit higher and more tangible than you. A fact this season that consistently showed was that good things happen when Josh was on the court. He impacted the games that went beyond the box score. His sheer effort literally changed the tides of at least 3 games off the top of my head this season.
He's a consistent 3pt shot from being the exact kind of wing this team needs. Viewing him from this lens I'd rather keep Green than use him in a short term trade for a center.
If anything there are other guys that should carry more value and are less important on the roster (basically THJ) that could/should be used instead for an upgrade.