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My biggest takeaway from these two games is confirmation that Brunson has IT and that Dinwiddie is perfect for the 6th man/closing role moving forward. But that we absolutely need both, not one or the other. We need our "Clarkson" off the bench...

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(04-19-2022, 08:09 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]JG+DB has an offensive rating of 83.3 (!!!).

Yikes!!!

(04-19-2022, 07:06 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]EXCELLENT post.

I 100% get why the Mavs want to spread UTA out and go 5-out to end the game. It is why I liked the suggestion of giving DB more minutes at the 5. 

But in 38 mins, the Mavs are offensively 123.9 and defensively 97.1 when DP plays. That is +26.7 and why I have been screaming for more minutes from him in the series. The D has been by FAR the best with him in. Everyone is hitting their rotations best when he has played. As I put it in the gamethread "he organizes the D the best of the big men." And the O is not suffering with DP out there. He is so SMART in how he moves around the court even when he isn't being guarded as a three point threat. His GREAT screening forces a player to be attached to him and the spacing that results is great. He is the anti-KP in that regard (whose bad screening killed the spacing). 

In Maxi's 56 mins, the Mavs are offensively 109.4 and defensively 120.6. That is -11.1, including his FANTASTIC 2nd half last night. 

I hope Maxi is confident moving forward in the series, but I still think DP is the best big man option in this series and should be getting more burn. His screening is so key to that. DP+JB is 123.1 offensively and DP+SD is 129.1 offensively in the series. Those guys are getting really GOOD looks with DP setting screens in the offense.

This feels like another argument based on small sample noisy data.  Its hard to imagine an argument for Powell being a better defender than Maxi.  Maxi is literally better at everything than Powell defensively.  I think Kidd is giving Maxi more minutes due to defense more so than offense.  I realize that not everything a player does shows up in the box score, but when your best arguments for a player (other than +/-) is screen setting and defensive organization, it seems a little like grasping for straws.

The reality is that we need both.  Personally I think both would be more effective coming off the bench and playing together, but we don't have that option right now.  With Luka out, you could make an argument for a closing lineup of Powell/Maxi/DFS/Din/Brunson if they could handle the minutes.

(04-19-2022, 07:40 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]Probably the biggest win for this franchise in a decade.

It's worth pointing out that despite the horrible rebounding numbers, the Mavs are making up for it by not turning the ball over, at all. Dallas actually had 1 more shot attempt than Utah in this game.

"You can't win all the stats" - JKidd

(04-19-2022, 09:10 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Maxi is literally better at everything than Powell defensively.

I disagree with this.

(04-19-2022, 09:10 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]your best arguments for a player (other than +/-) is screen setting and defensive organization, it seems a little like grasping for straws.

DP is...

1) Way better screener than Maxi.

2) A way better "vertical spacer" than Maxi.

3) Provides more hustle and raw effort.

4) Much better TEAM rebounder than Maxi (this has been more pronounced in the playoffs with the team getting 46.5% of the rebounds with DP playing and only 36.1% with Maxi playing...!!!). The way Maxi plays D very often screws the team on the defensive glass, especially when he is the 5 man.

5) I think Maxi is generally a better defender, especially one-on-one, but DP does a lot to be liked from a team defensive standpoint.

(04-19-2022, 09:10 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]This feels like another argument based on small sample noisy data.  Its hard to imagine an argument for Powell being a better defender than Maxi.  Maxi is literally better at everything than Powell defensively.  I think Kidd is giving Maxi more minutes due to defense more so than offense.  I realize that not everything a player does shows up in the box score, but when your best arguments for a player (other than +/-) is screen setting and defensive organization, it seems a little like grasping for straws.

The reality is that we need both.  Personally I think both would be more effective coming off the bench and playing together, but we don't have that option right now.  With Luka out, you could make an argument for a closing lineup of Powell/Maxi/DFS/Din/Brunson if they could handle the minutes.

ha ha!!

mvoss, you're like this genius basketball poster with this giant Powell blind spot   I blame it on your love for the traditional center...come on in to the future pal!!!  

OK, all that was just messing with you a bit. Good post, actually. 

I think Maxi is a better defender in several ways, than Powell. But DP doesn't just "set screens and organize the defense". It's ok to like Maxi (I do!!) without going reductionist on Powell. What he does well on defense is move his feet and be where he's supposed to be (5 guys on a string, and all that). But Maxi moves his feet really well too, of course. 

Regarding "moving your feet", footwork is a big deal in my opinion. And knowing where to be is a big deal. Everyone wanted Moses to get coached up because of his size and athleticism. But the dude has horrible footwork and doesn't know where to be. Imagine what would happen if he could do those two things!!

Adding to the above, I can't go Team Powell or Team Maxi. I'm absolutely team BOTH. And it completely makes sense to me that Maxi is the closing center against the Jazz. Spread the Jazz out in winning time. Seems like the right move to me.

(04-19-2022, 09:47 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]ha ha!!

mvoss, you're like this genius basketball poster with this giant Powell blind spot   I blame it on your love for the traditional center...come on in to the future pal!!!  

OK, all that was just messing with you a bit. Good post, actually. 

I think Maxi is a better defender in several ways, than Powell. But DP doesn't just "set screens and organize the defense". It's ok to like Maxi (I do!!) without going reductionist on Powell. What he does well on defense is move his feet and be where he's supposed to be (5 guys on a string, and all that). But Maxi moves his feet really well too, of course. 

Regarding "moving your feet", footwork is a big deal in my opinion. And knowing where to be is a big deal. Everyone wanted Moses to get coached up because of his size and athleticism. But the dude has horrible footwork and doesn't know where to be. Imagine what would happen if he could do those two things!!

To be clear, I did not reduce Powel to screens and defensive organization.  I am merely commenting on the arguments Kam used for why we should prioritize Powell over Maxi.

Also to be clear, I don't think I have a blind spot when it comes to Powell.  He is a quality rotational player just like Maxi.  I think both are better coming off the bench with minutes in the low 20s.  He brings energy and BBIQ as well as high quality rim running.

I do think folks go a little over board on his defense.  He is a defensive 4 getting somewhat miscast as a 5.  He and Kidd are making it work (to a degree) but you are getting everything he brings from Maxi in addition to rim protection, which in my mind is at least as important as P&R defense from your 5.

A 2 game sample of team defensive rating for each player was used to make a point, but that same stat over the course of the season has Powell as the worst major rotational player on the team, and Maxi as the best.  I think folks too often use stats to support narrative instead of what they should be doing, which is using stats to question your eye test and dig a little deeper.

(04-19-2022, 06:55 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Did anyone realize the rebounding differential in the second half was only -4 (-3 in the third and -1 in the fourth).  They were outrebounded 28-13 in the first half, but really worked in the second half to turn that around.

I did not realize that. It does match the eye test though as I felt they worked a lot harder in the 2nd half.

(04-19-2022, 06:55 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]When one looks at single game +/-, one has to consider there are four other players on the floor with the guy you are looking at.  Right now we have a six man roster (even though nine men played).

I'm curious what are your thoughts on Josh Green so far after 2 playoff games? Has the luster of him decreased a bit? I was ready for him to take a leap next year, but now seeing how dwarfed he looks out there makes me think he has a very long way to go to be a rotation player?

(04-19-2022, 10:46 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]To be clear, I did not reduce Powel to screens and defensive organization.  I am merely commenting on the arguments Kam used for why we should prioritize Powell over Maxi.

Fair enough. That's the danger of jumping in mid conversation. I'm glad they have different skill sets. 

(04-19-2022, 10:46 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Also to be clear, I don't think I have a blind spot when it comes to Powell.  He is a quality rotational player just like Maxi.  I think both are better coming off the bench with minutes in the low 20s.  He brings energy and BBIQ as well as high quality rim running.

I do think folks go a little over board on his defense.  He is a defensive 4 getting somewhat miscast as a 5.  He and Kidd are making it work (to a degree) but you are getting everything he brings from Maxi in addition to rim protection, which in my mind is at least as important as P&R defense from your 5.

Fair enough, again. The only place where I don't see things exactly like you do, and the place where I was trying to joke a bit in my first post, is that I don't think Powell is a 4 in the current NBA. I do think Maxi can play 4 or 5, but that Powell is better left at the 5 (in the current game). I also don't think Maxi gives you everything Powell does, nor do I think Powell gives you everything that Maxi does. 

I actually wasn't trying to take a side in the discussion you guys were having, I was responding to your part with conversations from the past in my head about Powell and about what kind of center the Mavs need.

(04-19-2022, 09:10 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I think Kidd is giving Maxi more minutes due to defense more so than offense.

It might also have something to do with Dwight being a G League level player without an elite playmaker.

(04-19-2022, 10:46 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]A 2 game sample of team defensive rating for each player was used to make a point, but that same stat over the course of the season has Powell as the worst major rotational player on the team, and Maxi as the best.  I think folks too often use stats to support narrative instead of what they should be doing, which is using stats to question your eye test and dig a little deeper.

Since the trade and All-Star break here are the numbers for DP (that is when it seemed like was fully healthy and recovered and back to his full athletic self):



As you can see, DP suffered from playing almost all his minutes with Luka (who was ATROCIOUS defensively after the trade). 

Without Luka, DP had some of the best numbers on the team and one of the better defensive ratings.

(04-19-2022, 11:03 AM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: [ -> ]It might also have something to do with Dwight being a G League level player without an elite playmaker.

I was wondering when you were going to show up LOL

(04-19-2022, 11:05 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I was wondering when you were going to show up LOL

I had some juicy content to put in my Dwight thread but it was to hard to post on mobile. You guys can pull up whatever goofy regular season stats you want but at the end of the day Maxi is a great player and Dwight is a spaz. I know it. Kidd knows it. Barb Walters knows it. The only people who don’t know are some of you and Mark “infinite sexual harassment stories” Cuban. This isn’t the regular season anymore. This is the real deal.

(04-19-2022, 10:54 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I'm curious what are your thoughts on Josh Green so far after 2 playoff games? Has the luster of him decreased a bit? I was ready for him to take a leap next year, but now seeing how dwarfed he looks out there makes me think he has a very long way to go to be a rotation player?

While some remember my very critical response of Green about a month ago, I will echo it here.

Josh Green is a decent player defensively and may continue to be batted around for several years by NBA teams hoping to get more out of him eventually on offense. But I honestly believe the best-case scenario for the Mavs is to offer him in a trade where he may appear to have value now. The chances of him blossoming into an important rotation player are slim.

Dallas will need to make trades for important pieces - and this year will be the time to take advantage of trading him for value. There are others here who have argued that he's young - but Dallas really needs a replacement wing with more veteran experience and a better offensive game. This year is the time to use Green in a trade for an improvement in our rotation construction.

I have nothing against Green, but I think people have fallen in love with potential that really isn't there - and Dallas isn't a team that can wait for blossoming potential.

At the end of the day, Kidd sees something about Powell’s minutes that keeps him on the pine. This last game he played the token starter role I have been suggesting for a big body player.

(04-19-2022, 08:09 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Few thoughts:

1) I think DB is much better on D than reputation.

2) When teams used to hunt Dirk on D it often backfired and I could see the same with DB. It got them out of "good offense" and into obsessive, isolation, one-on-one play.

3) The real issue with DB's minutes in the two playoff games hasn't been the D, it has been the O. The team has scored 100.0 in his 31 minutes which is BAD. Seven of DB's mins have come with JG and JG+DB has an offensive rating of 83.3 (!!!).

As much as I like to dunk on DB and as much as I think you are completely off base on his defensive prowess (he might be the worst defender in the league), I like his confidence, assertiveness and frustration with not being involved on the offense.  He also has the fantastic teammate gene (just last night he raced to help JB up when he was one of the farthest teammates from the fall).  You can't play him though.  The coaching staff has shown they have no idea how to get him quality looks.  He got 1 shot in his eight first-half minutes last night.  I don't think he got a shot in the second half.  You can't suffer through his defense if you aren't taking advantage of his excellent shooting.  

He's also a reason why +/- in small sample sizes is a poor indicator of impact.  He had a good +/- in the first game and a bad +/- in the second game.  His impact wasn't much different.  He and Maxi also had the same +/- in the first half of the game last night and their impact was worlds apart.  I'd say the Mavs are pretty lucky to have gotten away playing him as much as they have and not paid a bigger price for it, especially since they refuse to use his elite skill.

Now that I've said nice things about DB, I need a shower.  Yuck.

(04-19-2022, 11:20 AM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]I have nothing against Green, but I think people have fallen in love with potential that really isn't there - and Dallas isn't a team that can wait for blossoming potential.

"Potential" has broken more NBA hearts than any other reason.

Forget the splash bros. Between Jalen, Reggie and Maxi last night, we saw the Super Smash Bros (trademark pending)

(04-19-2022, 11:20 AM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]I have nothing against Green, but I think people have fallen in love with potential that really isn't there - and Dallas isn't a team that can wait for blossoming potential.

The first playoff series for a young player often isn't pretty. That's nothing unusual, don't you think? 

On waiting for potential, I think even the best, stacked, vet teams should always be developing young players. Getting into such a hurry where you avoid picks and young players all together will come back and bit a team, imo.