MavsBoard

(04-19-2022, 06:58 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Question: is Josh Green a good one on one defender?   It seems he is a better off ball defender at this time.   It seems even when he plays good defense, players still tend to score on him.    Maybe it is just how good these offensive players are, but I just feel even though he is active and looks to contest shots offensive players get good looks off him.   Maybe I am wrong though.

BBall Index classifies Josh as a "Point of Attack" defender.  He gets 28.6% of his defensive time against PG's and 38.4% against SG's.  He often comes in for DFS or Bullock and takes one of the other teams toughest match-ups.  Your eye's don't deceive.  He's in the 22nd percentile in PPP defensively in isolation.  But, he's in the 75th percentile against the PnR ball handler (something he does much more often than defend in isolation).   He's dead average when he has the rollman and when he's defending a spot up shooter (but average is good if you are assigned to guard a good offensive player).

Offensively, he's in the 79th percentile in transition and 74th percentile as a cutter.  But, he's only in the 35th percentile as a spot up shooter.

(04-19-2022, 07:51 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]BBall Index classifies Josh as a "Point of Attack" defender.  He gets 28.6% of his defensive time against PG's and 38.4% against SG's.  He often comes in for DFS or Bullock and takes one of the other teams toughest match-ups.  Your eye's don't deceive.  He's in the 22nd percentile in PPP defensively in isolation.  But, he's in the 75th percentile against the PnR ball handler (something he does much more often than defend in isolation).   He's dead average when he has the rollman and when he's defending a spot up shooter (but average is good if you are assigned to guard a good offensive player).

Offensively, he's in the 79th percentile in transition and 74th percentile as a cutter.  But, he's only in the 35th percentile as a spot up shooter.

Thanks...and I don't really mean this as a negative either.  Josh has the skills to be in time a very good defender.  It just seems with all his movement and quickness, good ball handlers and scorers eventually get to their spot and gets good looks.   It could be as simple as more experience and using a bump there, a forearm here.   I think this experience will help on his offensive game as well.

I can't really get my mind around all the Green love, so I'll ask a different question.

I think the question in my mind is, "How do you rank the following players in terms of trade value"?  Green, Bertans, Burke, Frankie, Brown, and Powell.

These players - plus Hardaway - are the Mavericks best option in a trade scenario. You might add Dinwiddie in certain trade packages, but it would have to be a serious trade for a playmaker for something like that I think

Boban probably is not up for a trade, but maybe you could do something with him.

In the Green, Bertans Burke, Frankie, Brown and Powell scenario, it's entirely possible Green might be just as valuable as Powell to some other team. Youth matters. The other four players are hardly valuable in any real sense. Green and Powell are the players getting the minutes now - and have the most to offer a team.

So the real value the Mavericks have this summer are Hardaway, Powell and Green.  Their salaries (and need) will largely dictate the factors in a trade.

Do I care if these players are traded away for a starter or even solid rotation players? Absolutely not. If these players are traded, we are going to miss Hardaway and Powell a lot more than we will miss Green. The Mavericks currently have an awkward roster construction that needs re-working. We can't make a trade if we have no talent to trade in return. If the Knicks ask for a combination of players in a sign-and-trade for Mitchell Robinson, and it includes Green, is anyone here going to be reluctant to do this trade because of Green? Of course not. 

This is a Mavericks dilemma... not so much and individual player dilemma. The question, I think, should be about Green's value in comparison to other players and what the Mavericks current needs are.

I don’t know how a trade for Mitchell Robinson is possible. His deal is up, no? I believe the experts here have said Mavs will be ineligible this summer to take on a sign and trade.

Agree that Bertans, Burke, Frank, Brown have little to no trade value. Our draft pick + Bertans or Hardaway is how I’d prefer to improve. But I’m intrigued by the idea of—go ahead and hate me now—Hardaway and Bertans and Burke for Westbrook.

(04-19-2022, 09:06 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]I can't really get my mind around all the Green love, so I'll ask a different question.

I think the question in my mind is, "How do you rank the following players in terms of trade value"?  Green, Bertans, Burke, Frankie, Brown, and Powell.

These players - plus Hardaway - are the Mavericks best option in a trade scenario. You might add Dinwiddie in certain trade packages, but it would have to be a serious trade for a playmaker for something like that I think

Boban probably is not up for a trade, but maybe you could do something with him.

In the Green, Bertans Burke, Frankie, Brown and Powell scenario, it's entirely possible Green might be just as valuable as Powell to some other team. Youth matters. The other four players are hardly valuable in any real sense. Green and Powell are the players getting the minutes now - and have the most to offer a team.

So the real value the Mavericks have this summer are Hardaway, Powell and Green.  Their salaries (and need) will largely dictate the factors in a trade.

Do I care if these players are traded away for a starter or even solid rotation players? Absolutely not. If these players are traded, we are going to miss Hardaway and Powell a lot more than we will miss Green. The Mavericks currently have an awkward roster construction that needs re-working. We can't make a trade if we have no talent to trade in return. If the Knicks ask for a combination of players in a sign-and-trade for Mitchell Robinson, and it includes Green, is anyone here going to be reluctant to do this trade because of Green? Of course not. 

This is a Mavericks dilemma... not so much and individual player dilemma. The question, I think, should be about Green's value in comparison to other players and what the Mavericks current needs are.

The

Maybe your mental block with Green is seeing him as only what his value to other teams in a trade would be. 

Watch him on this Mavs team, his growth and confidence, compare some of his numbers with historical data and it's not hard to envision him becoming a very good basketball player for this Mavericks team.... Soon!

Also consider, this is an entirely new era... the Luka and Kidd era... empowerment and growth are inevitable, if this first year is any indication.

(04-20-2022, 07:25 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe your mental block with Green is seeing him as only what his value to other teams in a trade would be. 

Watch him on this Mavs team, his growth and confidence, compare some of his numbers with historical data and it's not hard to envision him becoming a very good basketball player for this Mavericks team.... Soon!

Also consider, this is an entirely new era... the Luka and Kidd era... empowerment and growth are inevitable, if this first year is any indication.

It's possible that neither side of this discussion is right or wrong. They both have merits. I myself don't fully know where I stand on him. I think I would trade him if that is the other team's requirement to get the best player in a trade, but there is a possibility that he puts it together too, and that would stink. Hopefully the best player in trade fits so well that he makes me forget that part though. Although, even if that best player in trade doesn't fully fit, the value around the league is pretty sure to return more.

(04-20-2022, 07:25 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe your mental block with Green is seeing him as only what his value to other teams in a trade would be

My issue is simply the Mavericks roster construction, the Mavericks playoff window, and how to correct the roster going forward. 

Green is not essential to the Mavs current roster. There are other players out there that would offer more to the Mavericks team than Green. I get the impression that people think Green should be kept and groomed rather than traded - even if this team needs a veteran with more offensive skills.

(04-19-2022, 06:53 PM)Hogmelon Wrote: [ -> ]https://giphy.com/gifs/nba-smiling-luka-...fullscreen


https://hoopshype.com/storyline/luka-doncic-injury/

If Timmy Mac says there is hope, I believe it. Tim is not a seller of hope. He skews negative at times to sell his offerings but is one of the few remaining real live reporters. He actually spends time with the team, has relationships with players and coaches and reports real stuff.

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(04-20-2022, 07:54 AM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]My issue is simply the Mavericks roster construction

I'll catch back up with you after we win game 16....or lose a 4th game

(04-20-2022, 08:57 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]If Timmy Mac says there is hope, I believe it. Tim is not a seller of hope. He skews negative at times to sell his offerings but is one of the few remaining real live reporters. He actually spends time with the team, has relationships with players and coaches and reports real stuff.

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I'll catch back up with you after we win game 16....or lose a 4th game

Or after Free Agency. We all will have a clear picture by then.

(04-19-2022, 09:06 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]I can't really get my mind around all the Green love, so I'll ask a different question.

I think the question in my mind is, "How do you rank the following players in terms of trade value"?  Green, Bertans, Burke, Frankie, Brown, and Powell.

These players - plus Hardaway - are the Mavericks best option in a trade scenario. You might add Dinwiddie in certain trade packages, but it would have to be a serious trade for a playmaker for something like that I think

Boban probably is not up for a trade, but maybe you could do something with him.

In the Green, Bertans Burke, Frankie, Brown and Powell scenario, it's entirely possible Green might be just as valuable as Powell to some other team. Youth matters. The other four players are hardly valuable in any real sense. Green and Powell are the players getting the minutes now - and have the most to offer a team.

So the real value the Mavericks have this summer are Hardaway, Powell and Green.  Their salaries (and need) will largely dictate the factors in a trade.

Do I care if these players are traded away for a starter or even solid rotation players? Absolutely not. If these players are traded, we are going to miss Hardaway and Powell a lot more than we will miss Green. The Mavericks currently have an awkward roster construction that needs re-working. We can't make a trade if we have no talent to trade in return. If the Knicks ask for a combination of players in a sign-and-trade for Mitchell Robinson, and it includes Green, is anyone here going to be reluctant to do this trade because of Green? Of course not. 

This is a Mavericks dilemma... not so much and individual player dilemma. The question, I think, should be about Green's value in comparison to other players and what the Mavericks current needs are.

The reality is that we have very little it way of tradeable assets.  Other than Luka and DFS, our best asset is probably the 22 first (which we can trade at draft time).  The following folks are roughly neutral in value and would be used for salary matching:

THJ
Din
Powell
Bullock
Maxi
Green

The following folks are negative assets and would require us providing some kind of an asset to dump:

Bertans
Burke
Brown

When you talk realistic trades, you are looking to trade for another neutral asset in a position of need (like Holmes) or you are combining our neutral assets with our pick for an asset (I have no interest in using the pick to dump a contract).  A lot of trade proposals involve THJ because he was struggling with fit in Kidd's system and we have a log jam in that area.  Maxi and Powell have been mentioned a lot because they are older, near the end of their contracts, and many of the incoming players in trade proposals are starting centers.  You don't hear a lot about Green because he has a low salary for trade matching purposes and has the highest upside of that group.  If he ends up being a necessary piece to get a quality starter, then you probably pull that trigger.  But Green falls into the category of guys like Dorian who don't really get valued highly in trades and signings.  There is likely not a high demand for him.

(04-20-2022, 11:42 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]The reality is that we have very little it way of tradeable assets.  Other than Luka and DFS, our best asset is probably the 22 first (which we can trade at draft time).

We also have 2027, 2029 FRP and with a little creativity a 2025 one.

(04-20-2022, 11:42 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]There is likely not a high demand for him.

That's true taken by himself. However, a 1-for-1 trade for Green straight up seems unlikely. I think it's more likely the Mavericks would be asked by another team to add him to a trade package. He's the only Maverick that may not have a definable ceiling and so may be attractive as a sweetener.

(04-19-2022, 02:21 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Wait, so Jalen didn't say that!? I don't know what to believe anymore. Maybe Trump really did lose the election.

Seems highly unlikely to me. Jalen doesn't even have that type of demeanor, so I'll say he didn't do it. And yes, Trump lost the election in a landslide, though he says otherwise.

Green would be the equivalent of a mid first round pick in a trade package. Seeing as we don’t have other picks in the near future, he’s the next best thing.

(04-20-2022, 12:12 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]We also have 2027, 2029 FRP and with a little creativity a 2025 one.

You really undersell the risks of trading draft picks that are occurring further out than Luka is even signed for.

(04-20-2022, 12:23 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]Seems highly unlikely to me. Jalen doesn't even have that type of demeanor, so I'll say he didn't do it. And yes, Trump lost the election in a landslide, though he says otherwise.

my jokes are so bad that they're hard to recognize as jokes 

(04-20-2022, 12:53 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]You really undersell the risks of trading draft picks that are occurring further out than Luka is even signed for.

Wait, Luka isn’t signed through 2025???