2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[dynamicalVoid]

Not sure why it is laughable. A well playing KP is a pretty good return for Collins who is rumored to be leaving in FA. They have Gallinari for the starting PF spot and KP plays C. JB is their backup that has been said they are needing. We get a starting C/PF duo that has been playing for a bit already.

I admit I thought it was a joke.

I have reason, though...not a good one...but I do have reason.

The reason it is not a good one is because it is all internet here say without me doing my own research...but I read earlier today or last night about a John Collins or Clint Capella trade on reddit or RealGM...and a Hawks guy was basically saying there is no way they are trading CC.   The guy was saying supposedly CC has been killing it on defense and he is everything the Hawks thought he would be.   

I guess if I was to believe this guy and it was true...my thinking is I dont think they would give two good front court players away in a trade for KP.   Even if they dont want to max Collins and he is tradeable...wouldnt given up Collins and another front court guy(CC)hurt their depth?  And CC is supposedly playing good for them.

Anyway...thats why I laughed.   Maybe its a completely even trade.  My bad.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

I haven't made up my mind on him yet myself. But there are trades that I think could upgrade this team involving him.

Edit: He is by FAR the best trade piece we have, if we go that route.

Really?  Because with his injury history and salary I don't think he brings back anything close to a star caliber player, and I think it's selling low on the asset currently.  If we're looking for a star caliber talent to add to Luka,  the highest probability is to keep KP and gamble that he hits his ceiling.   I like Collins as a potential 3rd best player on a potential Championship team, but I don't think he'll ever be a multi-time All Star .. though he definitely looks like he has reached a new level this year if he can sustain it (contract year breakout??)_ 

 I do understand that KP is a definitely a very unique player that's kinda hard to build around, because he needs a very unique supporting cast that's not intuitive on face value.   But once you recognize the traits and what players complement him, that's a lot of the battle.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

The bad news on the Collins front is that he's probably played his way into a max contract from the Hawks.  His stats this year are through the roof.  Hawk are 13.4 points better with him on the floor.  Atlanta is not interested in draft picks at this point in their franchise cycle, they want to compete.   He's also reportedly the emotional leader in the lockerroom (not Trae).   It's not ideal that they have loaded up so many big, but if if they let him walk who are they tading him for or who are bringing in through free agency that brings comparable or better production?    Okungwu might still be 2-3 years away from being an impact NBA player.

[Kammrath]

Collins front is that he's probably played his way into a max contract

I personally think the only realistic path to Collins for the Mavs is trading KP. But knowing the Mavs they will not want to give up on KP that quick.

[RDB]

The bad news on the Collins front is that he's probably played his way into a max contract from the Hawks.  His stats this year are through the roof.  Hawk are 13.4 points better with him on the floor.  Atlanta is not interested in draft picks at this point in their franchise cycle, they want to compete.   He's also reportedly the emotional leader in the lockerroom (not Trae).   It's not ideal that they have loaded up so many big, but if if they let him walk who are they tading him for or who are bringing in through free agency that brings comparable or better production?    Okungwu might still be 2-3 years away from being an impact NBA player.

It will be interesting to see what happens.  I know fans are not always an accurate barometer of front office feelings but I bet close to 90% of the posters on the Hawks FA board think he will not be resigned.  Their biggest debate is who they are going to trade him for and whether he is even max contract worthy.

[StepBackJay]

We all like Collins but if I am Atlanta that's the guy I keep. He fits with their window. They signed a bunch of guys this offseason with the idea that they would be trading some players at some point.

I really think it was about asset management more than anything. I wish the Mavs would be smarter about this. Rather than saying every FA piece has to be perfect just get the best assets you can.

So they signed 32 year old Gallinari to a $60 mil dollar deal only to have him playing 17 mpg off the bench and scoring 10 points a game. And that's with Bog injured and getting zero minutes. Is that the best use of their salary? Why would they not shop Gallo and get something in return.

Mavs wanted to get Gallo this offseason but didn't have the space. Imo adding a guy like this and keeping J Rich + THJ is going to make this team better than forgoing at least THJ to go chase someone. As we have discussed before you can try to sign Collins to a max RFA deal but that's risky bc ATL could (and should) just match. They can always trade him later.

To me Gallo is a guy you could get for expiring + 1 asset. I think one of Brunson, Green, Terry would be the asset you would need to give ATL. Other teams might be able to beat your offer but I would try. Gallo's scoring would be very valuable here off the bench. If we could get him without giving up a major rotation piece I would be good with it.

[RDB]

I personally think the only realistic path to Collins for the Mavs is trading KP. But knowing the Mavs they will not want to give up on KP that quick.

I think I agree.  That’s why I posted the comment above around IF he makes it to the off-season.  I really don’t see a realistic chance to do something at the TDL.  I just wonder if Atl. might be put in a tight situation if we were to move quickly in the off-season.  Maybe you could take another look at the questions above and tell me if my logic is faulty.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

I dont think the Mavs will trade KP unless he wants out because he wants a bigger star role and he can't get that with Luka here.  They dont want to be seen as an org that's always flipping dudes.  They already have enough problems in free agency.

[StepBackJay]

Harry Barnes having some career highs. Celtics want him bad...

[KillerLeft]

I dont think the Mavs will trade KP unless he wants out because he wants a bigger star role and he can't get that with Luka here.  They dont want to be seen as an org that's always flipping dudes.  They already have enough problems in free agency.

I’ve got a free agency problem they should solve: what about how guys know that if they sign here they’re locking themselves into a situation where their center is soft, often unavailable and can barely move for days/weeks at a time?

Someone remind me...when big guys start to have difficulty getting up and down the court or moving laterally, does that tend to improve with age?

[ItsGoTime]

Really?  Because with his injury history and salary I don't think he brings back anything close to a star caliber player, and I think it's selling low on the asset currently.  If we're looking for a star caliber talent to add to Luka,  the highest probability is to keep KP and gamble that he hits his ceiling.   I like Collins as a potential 3rd best player on a potential Championship team, but I don't think he'll ever be a multi-time All Star .. though he definitely looks like he has reached a new level this year if he can sustain it (contract year breakout??)_ 

 I do understand that KP is a definitely a very unique player that's kinda hard to build around, because he needs a very unique supporting cast that's not intuitive on face value.   But once you recognize the traits and what players complement him, that's a lot of the battle.

Completely fair take. 


I think bubble KP is as good as Luka in all honesty. A 2 way player that can anchor the defense and score in the high 20's consistently. He still has lots of work to be done to get there, but if he can stay off the injury report for a couple years, I think he probably does. Do we want to invest that time and gamble that he stays healthy are the issues I go back and forth on (not to mention his possible debbie downer attitude that the FO would have a lot more insight on).

[ItsGoTime]

The reason it is not a good one is because it is all internet here say without me doing my own research...but I read earlier today or last night about a John Collins or Clint Capella trade on reddit or RealGM...and a Hawks guy was basically saying there is no way they are trading CC.   The guy was saying supposedly CC has been killing it on defense and he is everything the Hawks thought he would be.   

I guess if I was to believe this guy and it was true...my thinking is I dont think they would give two good front court players away in a trade for KP.   Even if they dont want to max Collins and he is tradeable...wouldnt given up Collins and another front court guy(CC)hurt their depth?  And CC is supposedly playing good for them.

I hadn't heard that. 

He is still an end of game liability because of shooting 54% at the FT line. If they want to do more than just make the playoffs, they would need more than that from him. 

We have Maxi that can step in at the end of games in his stead and while that would be a step down on defense for the team, it would hopefully not be a huge step down overall (if at all). I guess the same can be said of putting Gallinari and Collins in, but if they're losing Collins in the offseason, they then have to replace him with something and if they don't, the team can't be as good.

[dynamicalVoid]

I hadn't heard that. 

He is still an end of game liability because of shooting 54% at the FT line. If they want to do more than just make the playoffs, they would need more than that from him. 

We have Maxi that can step in at the end of games in his stead and while that would be a step down on defense for the team, it would hopefully not be a huge step down overall (if at all). I guess the same can be said of putting Gallinari and Collins in, but if they're losing Collins in the offseason, they then have to replace him with something and if they don't, the team can't be as good.

Can you rephrase the bolded...I am not following.  Nothing against you...it could be me.  Repost if willing.

[ItsGoTime]

Can you rephrase the bolded...I am not following.  Nothing against you...it could be me.  Repost if willing.

In light of CC being an end of game liability because of his FT%. The reason this isn't a big deal for us is because we can replace him with Maxi and hopefully the downgrade isn't detrimental as a whole. It could be a non-issue for ATL as well because they can insert Gallinari in place of CC, but if Collins is gone after this season, that becomes Gallinari and CC being the best duo to end and hack-a-CC becomes a thing to win against them.

[dynamicalVoid]

In light of CC being an end of game liability because of his FT%. The reason this isn't a big deal for us is because we can replace him with Maxi and hopefully the downgrade isn't detrimental as a whole. It could be a non-issue for ATL as well because they can insert Gallinari in place of CC, but if Collins is gone after this season, that becomes Gallinari and CC being the best duo to end and hack-a-CC becomes a thing to win against them.

Awww...now it registers....thanks.

So...they give us two of their bigs in Collins and CC for KP and Brunson...their big line up is:

Nathan Knight
KP
Bruno Fernando
Gallinari
Okongwu

I have no idea if losing CC hurts too much or not with that lineup

[ItsGoTime]

Awww...now it registers....thanks.

So...they give us two of their bigs in Collins and CC for KP and Brunson...their big line up is:

Nathan Knight
KP
Bruno Fernando
Gallinari
Okongwu

I have no idea if losing CC hurts too much or not with that lineup

I think it hurts less than losing Collins for nothing, or losing Collins for a discounted SnT in the offseason and that is IF KP and JB is a downgrade for the team overall, which would remain to be seen.

[Jason Terry]

KP must go at some point

Drummond for:

Johnson, WCS, Green, Terry 2 2nds

We go nowhere without paint defense and rebounding. This is sad

[Jason Terry]

GSW: KP and Johnson 
DAL: Green and Wiggins

[dynamicalVoid]

You have to be long, somewhat athletic, quick on your feet and have a little edge/bad boy in you to be effective in the paint, imo.

Big emphasis on quick feet and ability to slide laterally into position to make a defensive play.  Also prefer someone that has a little vertical to their jump(not a Jokic, Marc Gasol)

---

GSW: KP and Johnson 
DAL: Green and Wiggins

Im all about Draymond's game....his communication would help our teams BBIQ.  He has edge, can pass, defend.  Wiggins is long and playing good defense now...but that contract ouch.

[Omega_Supreme]

LOL @ the people talking about trading Brunson, no fucking way