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2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]
(01-10-2022, 04:32 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: not having to be force-fed


But he'd like to be fed the ball more...my point is, if we're just going to use him exactly how Indy is using him, is that good?  Just make him a corner three point shooter?  It would improve our defense a little bit I suppose but if we're pairing someone with KP I'd much rather go after a bigger wing who can put the ball on the floor a little bit like Grant or Siakim.
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(01-10-2022, 03:07 PM)mvossman Wrote: Don't think he can defend the perimeter like Maxi (or even Powell) can.  Its a little more awkward fit defensively.

Was just triggering me a bit that people were talking about Turner like he was a Gobert or Adams type big

When I watch the Pacers, it strikes me that Sabonis' interior defense is much more the problem there than Turner getting flamed on the perimeter

(01-10-2022, 04:36 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: Siakim


If we're keeping KP, he'd certainly be the dream player to pick up
I don't know enough about Grant to say one way or the other
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(01-10-2022, 03:51 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Raw on/off is really noisy but favors Turner. Overall I tend to agree with you. Boxscore numbers aren´t everything and they aren´t telling us anyting about things like defensive attention/gravity. Would argue that KP is drawing more attention from the defense.
Just talking about the maths that are used in most boxscore based metrics Turner is getting punished for a negative ast/tov ratio. An area where KP improved a lot. So far he is having the best passing season of his career.

But just like I mentioned. It leads to the question if Turner could produce similar or even better numbers on similar volume in a more featured role (without Sabonis next to him). And even more important for the Mavs. Also looking back at the last season under RC. Would the Mavs offense be better with a reduced role for KP. on/off numbers suggest as much.
KPs role in the offense remains one of the most interesting topics. Maybe the easiest solution is a better balance. KP still getting some opportunities but not ranking among the top 5 in post up volume. Personally I am starting to think of him as the 3rd option behind Luka and Brunson.

Or as discussed in this thread. Find a replacement with other strengths (and weaknesses). A better fitting piece. Maybe Turner´s superior defense and efficient shooting is exactly that if it means that Doncic and especially Brunson get more opportunities with better spacing.

I would be curious to see what Turner can do without Sabonis offensively (and rebounding) but I don't see that impacting his three point shooting.  KP is a significantly better three point shooter/spacer (despite his current season percentage) than Turner.  He takes twice the numbers of shots, and more difficult shots yet they have similar career averages.  I don't think he will ever provide the spacing that KP does.  I am curious if we would become a more willing P&R partner with Luka without someone else clogging up the middle.

I do agree that there would be value in trading out KP offensive demand (when his lack of ability to create and efficiency maybe don't warrant it) for someone that requires less offensive demand but provides elite defense, and maybe more importantly availability.

The thing is, there is no way Pacers want KP, so its tough to see a trade getting flushed out anyways.
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(01-10-2022, 03:01 PM)Jym Wrote: I don't get why everyone hates the idea of pairing KP and Turner
Isn't he just a better version of Maxi?

No. No, he isn't. Not how I see them, anyway. 

They are both good defenders, but completely different types of defenders. Kleber can work well with a center on that end, Turner can only be a center on defense. I think Kleber with Porzingis or Kleber with Turner are both intriguing, defensively. I think Turner with Porzingis is a one way ticket to having one of the most expensive, non-functional rosters in the game. 

The are probably more comparable on offense than defense, but while Turner shoots a good percentage, I think Kleber is more of a pure catch-and-shoot spacing specialist. His release isn't super fast though, so this might be my personal bias getting mixed in.
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Seems to me that a deal for Turner would more than likely involve a three-way in which KP was outgoing, which would mean that the Mavs were getting something else back as well.
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(01-10-2022, 05:13 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: No. No, he isn't. Not how I see them, anyway. 

They are both good defenders, but completely different types of defenders. Kleber can work well with a center on that end, Turner can only be a center on defense. I think Kleber with Porzingis or Kleber with Turner are both intriguing, defensively. I think Turner with Porzingis is a one way ticket to having one of the most expensive, non-functional rosters in the game. 

The are probably more comparable on offense than defense, but while Turner shoots a good percentage, I think Kleber is more of a pure catch-and-shoot spacing specialist. His release isn't super fast though, so this might be my personal bias getting mixed in.

This is exactly how I see it.  I think Kleber and Turner together would be absolutely phenomenal in Kidd's defense since Turner is a little bit more switchable than KP and an even better rim protector (not too say that KP is a bad rim protector) and on offense it would allow Turner to do a lot of the things he doesn't seem to get to do in Indy, mainly be the roll man (something KP doesn't seem all that interested in).

Whenever I think about upgrading our frontcourt it's more about finding someone other than KP to fit into Kidd's switching scheme and then finding ANOTHER Maxi because, much like DFS, you can't really have too many of those types.  I'm really against all the trade proposals that include him at this moment.
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(01-10-2022, 05:26 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Seems to me that a deal for Turner would more than likely involve a three-way in which KP was outgoing, which would mean that the Mavs were getting something else back as well.
I’m of the opinion that KP and Turner COULD work, but I think Turner blossoms into the best version of himself if he was sans KP here (or sans Sabonis there). I do think he and KP works better here than he and Sabonis there because of KP’s ability to draw attention to the 3-point line (and beyond). I don’t think his best version makes him the 20+ ppg scorer KP is however.


Am I also remembering incorrectly about reports that Turner is a ticking tome-bomb as far as health? It wasn’t heart murmur (or was it) but something like that that made his possibility of being a long term piece being questionable (was it a knee cartilage thing? Don’t think so, but again, something long term questionable). If I remember correctly, F Gump posted the tweet last season. Ever since then, I’ve been less high on him.
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(01-10-2022, 04:30 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Hmmmm.... hope they're not thinking about signing Chriss to the two-way. But if not him, who?

Can't sign Chriss to a 2-way due to his number of years in the league.  It would be kind of awesome if we did what Tyler posted.  Guarantee Brown so he gets paid, and then sign to 2-way while Chriss gets the spot.  Then they both get paid full min for the year.
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(01-10-2022, 05:41 PM)mvossman Wrote: Can't sign Chriss to a 2-way due to his number of years in the league.  It would be kind of awesome if we did what Tyler posted.  Guarantee Brown so he gets paid, and then sign to 2-way while Chriss gets the spot.  Then they both get paid full min for the year.

I am probably higher on Moses than most. He just turned 22. Is younger than some of the bigmen prospects in the upcoming draft class. But he already played a full season in the league and showed that he can be a walking double double if he gets more than spot minutes. He is still super raw but that´s enough upside to invest time and assets (roster spot) into his development.
Don´t want to give up the team control and face difficult decisions in the summer. Don´t want to give up the cheap contract.
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(01-10-2022, 05:51 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I am probably higher on Moses than most. He just turned 22. Is younger than some of the bigmen prospects in the upcoming draft class. But he already played a full season in the league and showed that he can be a walking double double if he gets more than spot minutes. He is still super raw but that´s enough upside to invest time and assets (roster spot) into his development.
Don´t want to give up the team control and face difficult decisions in the summer. Don´t want to give up the cheap contract.

But Chriss is better for this roster. And cutting Frank would be no bueno.
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(01-10-2022, 05:58 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: But Chriss is better for this roster. And cutting Frank would be no bueno.

Short term that´s a yes. In two years when Brown would still be on a mimimum deal. Don´t think so.
That´s why WCS needs to go. Same for Burke. Ideally in a two for one trade. If not waive WCS.
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Chriss is a gift.  Mark don't screw this up.
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(01-10-2022, 05:58 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: But Chriss is better for this roster. And cutting Frank would be no bueno.
If they cut Frank we riot! Well I will. You guys are free to join.
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JaQuori McLaughlin waived

https://twitter.com/JShawNBA/status/1480645978369798144
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(01-10-2022, 06:06 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: JaQuori McLaughlin waived

https://twitter.com/JShawNBA/status/1480645978369798144

Yeah he did not look good to be honest. Outside of Chriss I was not that impressed with any of the 10 day contracts. Maybe there are some targets on other teams.
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https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1480...58341?s=20
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(01-10-2022, 03:51 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Raw on/off is really noisy but favors Turner.  

Unfortunately, on/off or +/- is only useful to compare within a single team, and then it's still sketchy because sample size tends to be too small to overcome the variables of random chance.

Then it does not translate from team to team, as the addition of more variables makes the margin of error become too magnified. So it can become completely diff when a player moves to a diff team. Experts all agree, and experience after players being traded shows the same thing.

It's also not a reliable comparative tool for players on diff teams, because of the difference in context and all the variables. It's worthless to use in that manner,
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(01-10-2022, 04:30 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Hmmmm.... hope they're not thinking about signing Chriss to the two-way. But if not him, who?

Unless the rules have changed (but with the covid stuff, rules have been revised on the fly), Chriss isn't eligible for 2-way.
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"Wonder if this could lead to Moses Brown being waived, re-signed to a two-way deal, and Marquese Chriss getting his roster spot"

If you think Moses has value, is he going to clear waivers? Don't know if they would, but 29 other teams can opt to grab him at his minimum salary if that's the process.
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(01-10-2022, 02:36 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Zach Lowe and Bobby Marks did a podcast focused on Turner and Indy back in mid-December.  They theorized  the most interested teams would be:

NY.   (Maybe something like Noel, Topin and #1)
CHO. (PJ Washington, Plumlee and #1)

Main thing is both Charlotte and NY were putting up veteran filler, a youngster and a pick.  SO, that area is probably the line to get past.  I don’t want to give up a youngster because Brunson and Green are our youngsters.  I’d also rather not give up a pick and clutter our asset sheet for years to come.

On another note, if there is a deal to be done with Indy, I think Maxi is a better fit with Sabonis than Powell would be.  I get the Carlisle/Powell thing, but I think they would prioritize Maxi.      

BTW, When they discussed Brooklyn as a Turner destination, they mentioned Dallas…but as a recipient of Irving.  They think some of the Dallas role players would be really helpful to the Nets and they are basically getting nothing from Irving now.  THJ, S. Brown and Willie is basically an exact money match for Irving.

If Nico pulls off Kyrie Irving for THJ+Brown+WCS as his first move I'd probably have a stroke. 

Irving is a nutcase but he might possibly be the most talented scoring guard of the last 20 years.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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