MavsBoard

(02-10-2021, 09:22 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]I posted questions that I think get to the root of the problem...no one wants to discuss them and make things better...they want you to choose a side and then fight.

I am willing to have a reasonable conversation with any that wants to have one...but I assume they shut this thread down first, weirdly no one responds in this thread anymore or I am just attacked as being some beta liberal.

And...this has nothing to do with hating countries...it has to do with the abuse of power within governments.

I understand, but was that a legitimate question to start a discussion?

  “Please tell me why I should sell my soul to the government?”

And what kind of answer did you think you would get?

I understand people’s emotions are high BUT at some point people have to consider other perspectives (even if they disagree) if we are ever going to find common ground.  The only thing that accusations and name calling does is shut down the conversation.

Please don’t take this as criticism of you...everyone seems to have taken a position.  I was just responding to your reply.

Thats not how I started the convo.

I started by saying "National Anthems are dumb".  My take is that Governments promote anthems.   Governments are into the power game...which leads to lies, stealing, invading, killing for power.   Things I dont promote.

I started asking questions when I replied to someone else suggesting that "this all leads to having to win by killing people in different areas".   My response to that was:

My issue with what you say is this:

If this is some 3D Empire building/War game(race, culture, resource, alpha, whatever)...why is it such a secret that no one talks about?  Public schools teach kids to be kind, ethical and get an honest job...but then military families throw mud on you for not joining them in raiding other countries and making the USA strong?  You're labeled a Liberal by people that dont want you messing with their family but have no issues with killing you and your family and stealing your land.   It makes no sense.  I guess government hive minds have different rules than sissy civilians. 

Why would I want to join a military that allows schools to lie to kids?  Riiiight...guys with guns dont have power...its always "a different agency is in control of that".

If power and greed are so important(kill or be killed)...why not teach kids that from the beginning?  Wouldnt the military be stronger? Is this an intelligence test or is this a war game? (i know your answer to this..."sorry people lied to you,son" "cant you put all the hints together, Kiddo...they pinned Jesus to boards...open your third eye"..."honest, hardworking aint an option, son"...blah blah blah)

It all leads to dividing people and hopefully causing conflict.  


Not the best way to words things...I admit to that.   But I ask some valid questions

(02-10-2021, 10:47 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]Thats not how I started the convo.

I started by saying "National Anthems are dumb".  My take is that Governments promote anthems.   Governments are into the power game...which leads to lies, stealing, invading, killing for power.   Things I dont promote.

I started asking questions when I replied to someone else suggesting that "this all leads to having to win by killing people in different areas".   My response to that was:

My issue with what you say is this:

If this is some 3D Empire building/War game(race, culture, resource, alpha, whatever)...why is it such a secret that no one talks about?  Public schools teach kids to be kind, ethical and get an honest job...but then military families throw mud on you for not joining them in raiding other countries and making the USA strong?  You're labeled a Liberal by people that dont want you messing with their family but have no issues with killing you and your family and stealing your land.   It makes no sense.  I guess government hive minds have different rules than sissy civilians. 

Why would I want to join a military that allows schools to lie to kids?  Riiiight...guys with guns dont have power...its always "a different agency is in control of that".

If power and greed are so important(kill or be killed)...why not teach kids that from the beginning?  Wouldnt the military be stronger? Is this an intelligence test or is this a war game? (i know your answer to this..."sorry people lied to you,son" "cant you put all the hints together, Kiddo...they pinned Jesus to boards...open your third eye"..."honest, hardworking aint an option, son"...blah blah blah)

It all leads to dividing people and hopefully causing conflict.  


Not the best way to words things...I admit to that.   But I ask some valid questions

Fair enough and my intention is not to minimize your questions.  I’m just not sure we are going to solve anything here.  We all have our perspectives and life experiences and I’m in no place to judge or de-value anyone’s.

Anyway, it looks like you are a new poster to the site...so am I.  For me, it was a little awkward when I first joined.  There are some long time members and relationships and it sort of felt like I was butting in to a conversation.  But I will say that this site does have a lot of knowledgeable people and the feeling was short lived.

(02-10-2021, 07:50 PM)hakeemfan Wrote: [ -> ]I have agreed with some of the points you have made but your last response seems completely tone deaf to what happened last summer. 

A person was killed in broad daylight. The buildup of years of resentment at bad cops came to a boil. This is not someone talking about things years ago.  The usual counter arguments are that blacks kill other blacks in gang warfare. How is that a justification for law enforcement who is supposed to protect all, killing folks?  

Do I have a solution? No. But I am not going to sit and pretend there is no issue here.

My response was to to someone making the comment that it was "cool" to kneel for the anthem.  I assume he meant that it was the popular thing to do now.  And to me, for such a serious concern and issue, people should not be kneeling because it is now "cool" to do so.  I also don't understand what the kneeling is supposed to accomplish.  Everybody is aware of what happened because it was on TV 24/7 for months.  

And, yes, I include what happened to Mr. Floyd as a current day example of police brutality, as I cannot see any justification for keeping a knee on the neck of a subdued person.  But I take issue with the narrative that unjustified mistreatment of this nature is a pervasive occurrence in the country today.

As to solutions, I do have a host of suggestions, but people don't want to hear them.

(02-11-2021, 12:11 AM)Imtrot Wrote: [ -> ]My response was to to someone making the comment that it was "cool" to kneel for the anthem.  I assume he meant that it was the popular thing to do now.  And to me, for such a serious concern and issue, people should not be kneeling because it is now "cool" to do so.  I also don't understand what the kneeling is supposed to accomplish.  Everybody is aware of what happened because it was on TV 24/7 for months.  

And, yes, I include what happened to Mr. Floyd as a current day example of police brutality, as I cannot see any justification for keeping a knee on the neck of a subdued person.  But I take issue with the narrative that unjustified mistreatment of this nature is a pervasive occurrence in the country today.

As to solutions, I do have a host of suggestions, but people don't want to hear them.

It might not be pervasive and not all leads to deaths, but just the ones you read about are much more than should be the case. Even a normal white person can get away with Stand Your Ground laws. Look at what happened in GA and the guy was not even charged until things started getting re-examined post the Floyd case. Look at how even the paramedics were involved in Elijah McClain’s death. These are things we read about. How about the ones that don’t even get any press on a daily basis?  So how do you or I define pervasive?  

The FBI said how white supremacists have infiltrated police departments 

There are issues and we need to do a better job of listening to others than just say how things have changed and the past should not be brought up, when we are talking about current events.

Seems I am late to the party, only read 3 pages so far but want to comment on few things. Apologies if it has been said before


-As international fan I don't really get the anthem thing in the USA, but if @"RDB" post true explains it. I am not against removing it but I think the decision should be collective from the NBA. Right now Cuban doing it alone won't be accepted from other owner and most likely will be seen as 1 upping them.

-In addition, I still remember when Silver told Rachel Nichols, at the end of the bubble, that they now understands that fans might not like BLM on courts and want the game to be just a game. 
I think that statement (that was said to a very liberal reporter) is huge. NBA risks losing a good portion of fans if they decide to go full woke. They need to be careful with what they do.

(02-10-2021, 12:05 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]At some point in the future, I hope we look back at the imaginary dividing lines between countries as dumb, even. But that's just me.

I used to be like this, but honestly it is a pure fantasy. 
Human are territorials  by nature (to a certain extent) and each group wants to keep having a better life. If there is no borders Asians and Africans (from which I came from) will move in masses to other countries. 
The concept of countries are there for valid reasons, yes we tend to add some nonsense imaginary values for it, but the core idea of countries is, sadly , essential. Don't think the future will have anything different in that regard. 

(02-10-2021, 10:25 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]A sex scandal hasn't stopped anyone from running for president before and certainly hasn't stopped anyone from winning.

I really do think Cubes is gunning for a 2024 run as the more rational/sane version of Trump. He's not a career politician which would win points with the people that resonated with Trump. He's also marched in BLM/made social justice causes a priority etc/ so that appeals to the left.

Dude is playing the long game and I truly truly think this is just another play for a potential presidential bid.

Cuban said he thought about running, as 3rd party, and hired a company to test if he will gets votes, and he found he won't, and that is against the 2 worst candidates US has probably seen in decades. 

He will need to have a party to do it. He resonates with some trump voters but he won't get votes in democratic primary with sex sandals and without political history. 

His best hope will be as republician's, and I don't get how removing anthem helps him at all.

(02-10-2021, 11:55 PM)RDB Wrote: [ -> ]Fair enough and my intention is not to minimize your questions.  I’m just not sure we are going to solve anything here.  We all have our perspectives and life experiences and I’m in no place to judge or de-value anyone’s.

Anyway, it looks like you are a new poster to the site...so am I.  For me, it was a little awkward when I first joined.  There are some long time members and relationships and it sort of felt like I was butting in to a conversation.  But I will say that this site does have a lot of knowledgeable people and the feeling was short lived.

Its never a good time or place to talk about making things better.

Just fight fight fight!

You guys can have all the money and women...Im not turning evil in the name of money or survival.  I guess I'll watch the war game from afar.

One last time...can anyone answer any of my questions?  Anyone?  Bueller?

(02-11-2021, 12:22 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]can anyone answer any of my questions? 

Can you restate your questions very simply right here?

@"dynamicalVoid" I don't mean this question in any kind of critical way at all, so please don't take it that way: are you American, or do you live somewhere else? 

You made a comment earlier about your vote not counting because you're a civilian...not sure what to make of that.

(02-11-2021, 12:22 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]Its never a good time or place to talk about making things better.

Just fight fight fight!

You guys can have all the money and women...Im not turning evil in the name of money or survival.  I guess I'll watch the war game from afar.

One last time...can anyone answer any of my questions?  Anyone?  Bueller?

Sorry it seems like your serious questions aren't getting addressed.  I'm sure some of us are indeed trying to talk about making things better.     Points are somewhat spread out over the thread so its a little hard to follow, but I respect your sincere effort to express them. 

I think you started out with 

1) Anthems are dumb and then  

2) You went on to say in various ways that governments do a lot of bad things and wars are bad things.  Not to oversimplify but it seemed along those lines correct? 

3) Seemed to be along the lines of a person being accused of being too liberal if you try to respect your neighbors wife and property, live and let live.  On the other hand if you go ahead to rape and pillage your neighbor then uh, I guess you're being conservative alpha like a government?   I assume that's a bad thing right?  

Just in general I'll add this, governments are at the end of the day, just people.  People that came from mom's and dad's like you and I.  The difference is they have power to do things that affect many other people, often profoundly.   
Governments of some kind are inevitable because people are never really entirely independent of other people.  From birth, you're dependent on at least 1 parent or family of some kind.  

Governments are formed because decisions have to be made for groups, not just by individuals.
There are families, tribes, communities, cities, states, countries.   

Then you have the existence of what many might call evil, at least that's what it's called in the Scriptures as well as other religions. You can call it what you want, but people do bad things, not always good things.  Its a fact of human existence.  

So then governments and wars exist also to deal with people that want to do bad things to other people.  
1 What causes conflicts and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from the passions at war within you? 
2 You crave what you do not have; you kill and covet, but are unable to obtain it. You quarrel and fight.
James 4:1-2

Now if a bunch of people feel thankful that their government has perhaps done things, including wars, that did much more good things for them than bad things, then they might want to write songs about it, like dumb Anthems. 
They might even want to sing them when they get together for big events. 

I think on a much higher level this is all part of a big trend, a fashion of sorts to say the right slogan.  Whatever is popular this moment with the majority just say something that sounds good.  I have never heard so many slogans as 2020-1.  I think cuban should use a slogan generator (google it).

(02-10-2021, 07:11 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: [ -> ]There's a very large segment of the US population today that hear the Anthem and think of bad things association with the country. I talk to many people like this regularly that feel this way when words like US Patriotism or loyalty are used.  They are reminded of bad things. This refers especially to things related to the history of slavery and racism but for many it encompasses a whole litany of  what is perceived as bad things American has done or does.   

That is a very good explanation about how people feel.  However such thoughts don't come from a vacuum. A lot of this comes from parents, friends, the people around.  But my opinion its self destructive to allow history to make a person think that they are always at a disadvantage.  Here is an analogy imagine a dog born with 3 feet, it doesn't know it should have 4 and it lives life well hopping around.  But if an individual believes that no matter what they do they will be at a disadvantage it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.  

On a personal note growing up as a minority in the Soviet Union I experienced racism directly.  However I was taught not to look for it but to avoid it.  I was taught that if I am at a disadvantage for getting into a certain college than I need to study twice as hard as a non-Jew.  I really think that works.

(02-11-2021, 04:50 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry it seems like your serious questions aren't getting addressed.  I'm sure some of us are indeed trying to talk about making things better.     Points are somewhat spread out over the thread so its a little hard to follow, but I respect your sincere effort to express them. 

I think you started out with 

1) Anthems are dumb and then  

2) You went on to say in various ways that governments do a lot of bad things and wars are bad things.  Not to oversimplify but it seemed along those lines correct? 

3) Seemed to be along the lines of a person being accused of being too liberal if you try to respect your neighbors wife and property, live and let live.  On the other hand if you go ahead to rape and pillage your neighbor then uh, I guess you're being conservative alpha like a government?   I assume that's a bad thing right?  

Just in general I'll add this, governments are at the end of the day, just people.  People that came from mom's and dad's like you and I.  The difference is they have power to do things that affect many other people, often profoundly.   
Governments of some kind are inevitable because people are never really entirely independent of other people.  From birth, you're dependent on at least 1 parent or family of some kind.  

Governments are formed because decisions have to be made for groups, not just by individuals.
There are families, tribes, communities, cities, states, countries.   

Then you have the existence of what many might call evil, at least that's what it's called in the Scriptures as well as other religions. You can call it what you want, but people do bad things, not always good things.  Its a fact of human existence.  

So then governments and wars exist also to deal with people that want to do bad things to other people.  
1 What causes conflicts and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from the passions at war within you? 
2 You crave what you do not have; you kill and covet, but are unable to obtain it. You quarrel and fight.
James 4:1-2

Now if a bunch of people feel thankful that their government has perhaps done things, including wars, that did much more good things for them than bad things, then they might want to write songs about it, like dumb Anthems. 
They might even want to sing them when they get together for big events. 

Kill them and take their stuff...so that our family is better off.  We dont trust them...gotta kill them or keep them down so they dont overtake us.

Why dont they teach this in schools?  Riiiight...."figure it out for yourself".

Again....do you want your neighbor f'ing you up and taking your stuff? Right...."Survival...the smart people get it".   

But its ok to lie to kids about being civil.   Throw a civilian in jail for stealing at the corner store, though.

And people should just be ok with this and blindly follow and not try and make things better?  War game?  

Being half evil for science or survival doesnt seem intelligent to me.

(02-12-2021, 10:09 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]Kill them and take their stuff...so that our family is better off.  We dont trust them...gotta kill them or keep them down so they dont overtake us.

Why dont they teach this in schools?  Riiiight...."figure it out for yourself".

Again....do you want your neighbor f'ing you up and taking your stuff? Right...."Survival...the smart people get it".   

But its ok to lie to kids about being civil.   Throw a civilian in jail for stealing at the corner store, though.

And people should just be ok with this and blindly follow and not try and make things better?  War game?  

Being half evil for science or survival doesnt seem intelligent to me.

1. Dahlsim is an amazing poster with a lot of empathy and eloquence, which makes these discussions super entertaining at least for me.
2. dynamicalVoid, war is not something that just happens like a bet between some rich guys, geopolitics often force the politicians hand.  War is the single most horrible part of humanity but it happens for many reasons.  The best explanations that I have seen are on youtube channel the Caspian report.  Check out the latest analysis on Armenia vs Azerbaijan war it will show you how it got to where it is.
3.  Anarchy as you desire exists.  Please see some videos on Somalia it will show you what happens when it becomes ok to "f up your neighbor"
4.  Despite the bad history and the many problems with America such as racism, and crime, the country as a whole is totally awesome.  The fact that you can write what you wrote is already a testament to that.  I think if you are able to see life in other places it will really open your eyes.  I highly recommend this channel it will show you what life looks like in other places:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCStGsls...9XnmwnsYWw

@"dynamicalVoid" I hate to say this, buddy, because I can tell you're sincere...about something. I just can't quite find my way to the center of what it is that you're trying to express. I want to, but I'm having trouble following. Can you ask your questions more simply? 

It's coming across like you're upset that your schooling didn't prepare you to be a murderous thief, which I don't think is actually what you're trying to convey. 

Or, maybe you've gotten the idea somehow that Americans WANT to be "half evil for science or survival"...which is certainly not the case.

This thread is on the level of the Luka's satanic tattoos thread. Impressive!

(02-12-2021, 11:09 AM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: [ -> ]This thread is on the level of the Luka's satanic tattoos thread. Impressive!

You're the second person to say that. I guess I really missed out by not reading that thread.

(02-12-2021, 11:10 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]You're the second person to say that. I guess I really missed out by not reading that thread.

I wish the league was dominated by satanic superstars. At least we would have fun in hell as opposed to this virtue signaling cringe fest!