MavsBoard

(06-17-2023, 02:42 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Assuming OG to Indy is true and not just agents pushing a team like Portland to raise their offer, tells us one thing. Indy wants to compete and Turner is not available.

I think both of those things are very accurate
- Indy wants to compete
- Turner is not available

The "Turner is available" ship sailed when he signed an extension.

I'll take a stab at the Mavs/Hawks deal but i will include brooklyn.

Mavs
send: Bertans, Hardaway, McGee & #10
receive: Capela, DFS, #15 and either Johnson or Bey (i'd prefer Bey but maybe that is too rich for Atlanta)

Atlanta
send: Capela, Collins, #15 and either Johnson or Bey
receive: Mills, Bertans, THJ, O'neal & #21

Brooklyn
send: DFS, O'neal, Mills #21
receive: Collins, McGee & #10

Heres' the Why:
Atlanta completely fixes their cap with one year deals of Mills & Oneal. SW Bertans and has a shooter with a solid tradeable contract in THJ

Brookly would have to value Collins but they have little front court size so they get that in Collins and McGee while moving up 11 spots to #10

Dallas completely fixes their frontcourt while keeping a mid first round pick and improving their cap sheet.

(06-17-2023, 03:00 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I would send 15 (maybe even 10) with McGee as the match, for a package of Gafford, Kispert, and pick 42.

Kispert would have a field day with all the open looks Luka and Kyrie create, but I don't think he works here defensively with those two. 10 or 15 would be too expensive for me.

Reworked my Defensive Model...

Center Profile:
7% -- Paint-Dfg%
18% -- Paint-Missed FGs
5% -- Mid-Dfg%
12% -- Mid-Missed FGs
2% -- 3pt-Dfg%
10% -- 3pt-Missed FGs
6% -- Deflections
6% -- Defensive Loose Balls Gained
2% -- Charges Drawn
7% -- Defensive Box-outs Resulting in Team RB
17% -- Defensive Rebounds
6% -- Blocks
2% -- Steals

1 - Anthony Davis - 30yo, F-C, $40.6m, 74.49
2 - Nikola Jokic - 28yo, C, $46.55m, 73.07
3 - Joel Embiid - 29yo, C-F, $46.9m, 71.87
4 - Brook Lopez - 35yo, C, $0m, 71.48
5 - Rudy Gobert - 30yo, C, $41m, 68.6
6 - Nic Claxton - 24yo, C, $9.63m, 67.22
7 - Evan Mobley - 21yo, C, $8.88m, 66.92
8 - Kristaps Porzingis - 27yo, F-C, $36.02m, 66.88
9 - Domantas Sabonis - 27yo, F-C, $22m, 66.59
10 - Jaren Jackson Jr. - 23yo, F-C, $27.1m, 64.11
11 - Ivica Zubac - 26yo, C, $10.93m, 63.78
12 - Nikola Vucevic - 32yo, C, $0m, 63.77
13 - Myles Turner - 27yo, C-F, $20.98m, 62.94
14 - Jarrett Allen - 25yo, C, $20m, 62.26
15 - Jusuf Nurkic - 28yo, C, $16.88m, 61.95
16 - Steven Adams - 29yo, C, $12.6m, 60.24
17 - Jakob Poeltl - 27yo, C, $0m, 59.3
18 - Walker Kessler - 21yo, C, $2.83m, 59.08
19 - Alperen Sengun - 20yo, C, $3.54m, 58.67
20 - Bam Adebayo - 25yo, C-F, $32.6m, 57.07
21 - Deandre Ayton - 24yo, C, $32.46m, 56.75
22 - Clint Capela - 29yo, C, $20.62m, 56.71
23 - Al Horford - 37yo, C-F, $10m, 56.67
24 - Karl-Anthony Towns - 27yo, C-F, $36.02m, 56.25
25 - Julius Randle - 28yo, F-C, $25.66m, 55.33
26 - Wendell Carter Jr. - 24yo, C-F, $13.05m, 55.02
27 - Lauri Markkanen - 26yo, F-C, $17.26m, 54.06
28 - Mitchell Robinson - 25yo, C-F, $15.68m, 54.04
29 - Kelly Olynyk - 32yo, F-C, $12.2m, 53.73
30 - Zach Collins - 25yo, F-C, $7.7m, 53.71
31 - Jonas Valanciunas - 31yo, C, $15.44m, 52.61
32 - Mason Plumlee - 33yo, F-C, $0m, 52.17
33 - Robert Williams III - 25yo, C-F, $11.57m, 51.28
34 - Onyeka Okongwu - 22yo, F-C, $8.11m, 51.21
35 - Isaiah Stewart - 22yo, F-C, $5.27m, 50.49
36 - John Collins - 25yo, F-C, $25.34m, 50.08
37 - Mark Williams - 21yo, C, $3.91m, 49.82
38 - Jalen Duren - 19yo, C, $4.33m, 49.77
39 - Daniel Gafford - 24yo, F-C, $12.4m, 49.43
40 - Drew Eubanks - 26yo, F-C, $0m, 46.4
41 - Isaiah Hartenstein - 25yo, C-F, $9.25m, 46.3
42 - Naz Reid - 23yo, C-F, $0m, 44.28
43 - Nick Richards - 25yo, C, $5m, 41.91
44 - Larry Nance Jr. - 30yo, F-C, $10.38m, 41.56
45 - Santi Aldama - 22yo, F-C, $2.19m, 41.52
46 - Bismack Biyombo - 30yo, C, $0m, 40.7
47 - Kevin Love - 34yo, F-C, $0m, 40.54
48 - Jalen McDaniels - 25yo, F-C, $0m, 40.16
49 - Bol Bol - 23yo, C-F, $2.2m, 40
50 - Dwight Powell - 31yo, F-C, $0m, 39.78
51 - Jalen Smith - 23yo, F-C, $5.04m, 39.35
52 - Moritz Wagner - 26yo, F-C, $0m, 38.5
53 - Charles Bassey - 22yo, C-F, $2.6m, 37.65
54 - Thomas Bryant - 25yo, C-F, $0m, 37.51
55 - Mo Bamba - 25yo, C, $10.3m, 36.71
56 - Dean Wade - 26yo, F-C, $5.71m, 36.62
57 - Chris Boucher - 30yo, F-C, $11.75m, 35.83
58 - Andre Drummond - 29yo, C, $3.36m, 35.83
59 - James Wiseman - 22yo, C, $12.12m, 35.2
60 - Jock Landale - 27yo, C, $0m, 34.75
61 - Christian Koloko - 22yo, C, $1.72m, 34.34
62 - Mike Muscala - 31yo, F-C, $3.5m, 34.14
63 - Jericho Sims - 24yo, C, $1.93m, 33.44
64 - Damian Jones - 27yo, C, $2.59m, 32.9
65 - Luke Kornet - 27yo, C-F, $2.41m, 32.51
66 - DeAndre Jordan - 34yo, C, $0m, 32.45
67 - Kai Jones - 22yo, C-F, $3.05m, 32.43
68 - Sandro Mamukelashvili - 24yo, F-C, $0m, 32.35
69 - Goga Bitadze - 23yo, C-F, $2.07m, 31.74
70 - Willy Hernangomez - 29yo, C-F, $2.56m, 31.35
71 - Day'Ron Sharpe - 21yo, C, $2.21m, 31.09
72 - Dewayne Dedmon - 33yo, C, $2.75m, 31.02
73 - Gorgui Dieng - 33yo, C, $0m, 30.81
74 - Dario Saric - 29yo, F-C, $0m, 30.07
75 - Bruno Fernando - 24yo, F-C, $2.58m, 29.99
76 - Montrezl Harrell - 29yo, F-C, $2.76m, 29.53
77 - Orlando Robinson - 22yo, C, $1.76m, 29.21
78 - Chimezie Metu - 26yo, F-C, $0m, 29.16
79 - Udoka Azubuike - 23yo, C-F, $0m, 28.52
80 - Moses Brown - 23yo, C, $0m, 28.29
81 - Zeke Nnaji - 22yo, F-C, $4.31m, 27.9
82 - Jaxson Hayes - 23yo, C-F, $9.17m, 27.37
83 - Alex Len - 29yo, C, $0m, 27.25
84 - JaMychal Green - 32yo, F-C, $0m, 26.33
85 - JaVale McGee - 35yo, C-F, $5.73m, 24.69
86 - Robin Lopez - 35yo, C, $0m, 24.14
87 - Nathan Knight - 25yo, F-C, $2m, 23.48
88 - Luka Garza - 24yo, C, $1.76m, 22.18
89 - Frank Kaminsky - 30yo, F-C, $0m, 21.21
90 - Khem Birch - 30yo, C, $6.99m, 21.19
91 - Boban Marjanovic - 34yo, C, $0m, 16.46

---

Given two max contracts in Luka/Kyrie, IMO we can't go over ~$20m for a starting C, ~$10m for the backup. Sorry, Ayton, we don't want to be in the exact same position PHX is in.

11 - Ivica Zubac - 26yo, C, $10.93m, 63.78
1st Choice. Exactly what we need. His age and low wage should make him our prime target.

12 - Nikola Vucevic - 32yo, C, $0m, 63.77
Not the top choice, but dude continues with good defense and offense. Worth a 2yr deal ~$15m/yr.

13 - Myles Turner - 27yo, C-F, $20.98m, 62.94
OK, I've been sold on Turner's being a great fit here. His defensive numbers are hidden in categories like deflections and boxouts. His salary is inline.

14 - Jarrett Allen - 25yo, C, $20m, 62.26
Nice contract. Young. Precisely what we need.

15 - Jusuf Nurkic - 28yo, C, $16.88m, 61.95
Dude gets roasted because he didn't live up to expectations, but a nice player with a decent contract.

30 - Zach Collins - 25yo, F-C, $7.7m, 53.71
With Wimby arriving, I wonder if they'd rather trade Zach for a better supporting position, like a bigger and more traditional C. Zach is more of a PF, but I think he could start for us at PF.

42 - Naz Reid - 23yo, C-F, $0m, 44.28
Young. OK defensive numbers. Great offensive talent. He's my choice for backup/heir apparent C. $12m/yr is fair to me.

44 - Larry Nance Jr. - 30yo, F-C, $10.38m, 41.56
Dude is a perfect backup for us if he could stay healthy. At 30yo, it'll probably only get worse.

48 - Jalen McDaniels - 25yo, F-C, $0m, 40.16
Nice choice for backup PF. Still young. Good skills,

49 - Bol Bol - 23yo, C-F, $2.2m, 40
Dude has more freakish athleticism that his pa. Has the defensive skillset to become a great defender, especially help side.

My ideal...
Zubac as a started, Naz Reid as a backup.

---

(06-17-2023, 03:07 PM)Mavs32 Wrote: [ -> ]I'll take a stab at the Mavs/Hawks deal but i will include brooklyn.

Mavs
send: Bertans, Hardaway, McGee & #10
receive: Capela, DFS, #15 and either Johnson or Bey (i'd prefer Bey but maybe that is too rich for Atlanta)

Atlanta
send: Capela, Collins, #15 and either Johnson or Bey
receive: Mills, Bertans, THJ, O'neal & #21

Brooklyn
send: DFS, O'neal, Mills #21
receive: Collins, McGee & #10

Heres' the Why:
Atlanta completely fixes their cap with one year deals of Mills & Oneal. SW Bertans and has a shooter with a solid tradeable contract in THJ

Brookly would have to value Collins but they have little front court size so they get that in Collins and McGee while moving up 11 spots to #10

Dallas completely fixes their frontcourt while keeping a mid first round pick and improving their cap sheet.

IMO, Capela is a dinosaur.  Getting back DFS is an upgrade for Bullock, but still not a great long term answer.

https://twitter.com/chrisbhaynes/status/...39584?s=46&t=hdMYR5VNI3D4hupTVErxeg

(06-17-2023, 03:07 PM)Mavs32 Wrote: [ -> ]I'll take a stab at the Mavs/Hawks deal but i will include brooklyn.

Mavs
send: Bertans, Hardaway, McGee & #10
receive: Capela, DFS, #15 and either Johnson or Bey (i'd prefer Bey but maybe that is too rich for Atlanta)

Atlanta
send: Capela, Collins, #15 and either Johnson or Bey
receive: Mills, Bertans, THJ, O'neal & #21

Brooklyn
send: DFS, O'neal, Mills #21
receive: Collins, McGee & #10

Heres' the Why:
Atlanta completely fixes their cap with one year deals of Mills & Oneal. SW Bertans and has a shooter with a solid tradeable contract in THJ

Brookly would have to value Collins but they have little front court size so they get that in Collins and McGee while moving up 11 spots to #10

Dallas completely fixes their frontcourt while keeping a mid first round pick and improving their cap sheet.

I love this deal, but I think it leans heavily towards DAL since we're getting both DFS+ a wing from ATL. Meanwhile they also remove 2 awful contracts in Bertans+McGee. 

Also given that the Mavs couldn't actually complete this deal until July 1st, it kind of complicates it on draft night (although nothing says they can't come to an agreement and all pick for each other).

https://twitter.com/ericpincus/status/16...22336?s=46&t=kBZghN5pPKEHpi2dWWHV8g

Quote:It's theoretically feasible that the Suns and Wizards execute a three-team deal where the return for Ayton compensates for Beal. I'd assume Chris would be salary relief for Washington in this concept. Ayton has a reasonably high market value, as I understand it

Pincus directly refutes multiple reports that Ayton's market value is low/lean. If Ayton's market value was strong, wouldn't he be gone by now given PHX needs?

Further, if his market value was strong, why wouldn't WAS just take the asset? 


But, Pincus is all but spelling out here a potential Dallas 3-team trade. They have stuff Washington presumably wants in a lotto pick and salary relief. They are also one of few teams that actually have an interest in Ayton.

(06-17-2023, 02:34 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I know. But I thought Nico and Kidd were hired because they are relationships guys. Thats why a failure for Mavs. Not that Beal really fits on Mavs team, but if you could get him this cheaply... 

If Phoenix could turn Ayton+CP3 into Morris, Gafford and Beal, that team would be very, very difficult to beat.

To further cement the relationship thing there is a massive connection here: Bradley Beals agent is Mark Bartelstein. His son, Josh Bartelstein, is the CEO of the Phoenix Suns.


I actually don't think a team of Beal/Booker/Durant are hard to stop. Even if you gave them Gafford+Morris. Only 1 ball and all 3 of those guys are pure scorers and so-so defenders. Their bench would be even lighter than it is currently and given the new CBA they'd be strapped at adding any new talent at all.

(06-17-2023, 04:59 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]To further cement the relationship thing there is a massive connection here: Bradley Beals agent is Mark Bartelstein. His son, Josh Bartelstein, is the CEO of the Phoenix Suns.


I actually don't think a team of Beal/Booker/Durant are hard to stop. Even if you gave them Gafford+Morris. Only 1 ball and all 3 of those guys are pure scorers and so-so defenders. Their bench would be even lighter than it is currently and given the new CBA they'd be strapped at adding any new talent at all.

Their rotation would actually improve. They would give two guys, while receiving three. And the rMLE. Gafford and Morris are very good fits with the three stars. Morris is a very efficient PG who shares the ball and doesn't make turnovers. Gafford is just a lob threat. Of course it is on to them stars to figure out ball sharing and defense. But mind, that Booker and Durant are capable of playing excellent defense. Booker played awesome defense in playoffs.

Booker, Durant, Beal, Morris, Gafford, Shamet, Payne and rMLE are an 8 men playoff rotation. Add a couple of ring chasing vets on minimum deals.

If I were a better, I would guess he winds up in Miami. They tend to get who they want, most times. Maybe using PHX to see if they can get one more piece? But PHX has been very aggressive with their new owner.

Question, would you take back Ayton and Deni for pick #10 and salary if they select PHX in Beal trade? That seems like a comparable package that Washington would get from Miami.

(06-17-2023, 06:44 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]If I were a better, I would guess he winds up in Miami.    They tend to get who they want, most times.    Maybe using PHX to see if they can get one more piece?  But PHX has been very aggressive with their new owner.

Question, would you take back Ayton and Deni for pick #10 and salary if they select PHX in Beal trade?  That seems like a comparable package that Washington would get from Miami.

If someone asked if you would take Andre Drummond and Mario Hezonja for the number 10 pick after it was proven they were declining or neutral assets, would you do it?

(06-17-2023, 04:59 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]To further cement the relationship thing there is a massive connection here: Bradley Beals agent is Mark Bartelstein. His son, Josh Bartelstein, is the CEO of the Phoenix Suns.

Another massive connection: Tim Hardaway Jr.'s agent is Mark Bartelstein. His son, Josh Bartelstein, is the CEO of the Phoenix Suns. 

THJ to Phoenix confirmed. 

(06-17-2023, 04:55 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/ericpincus/status/16...22336?s=46&t=kBZghN5pPKEHpi2dWWHV8g



Pincus directly refutes multiple reports that Ayton's market value is low/lean. If Ayton's market value was strong, wouldn't he be gone by now given PHX needs?

Further, if his market value was strong, why wouldn't WAS just take the asset? 


But, Pincus is all but spelling out here a potential Dallas 3-team trade. They have stuff Washington presumably wants in a lotto pick and salary relief. They are also one of few teams that actually have an interest in Ayton.

I know you have to give something for Ayton, but I'm not giving pick #10.

I agree with everyone here saying no to giving the 10th pick making 4 million (!) per year for the first three years, for the privilege of paying Lazy Ayton 34m per or whatever he is getting. That’s a terrible business decision, unless Luka and Ayton’s agent has us over a barrel and threatens Luka leaving. Even then, we’d have to find a way to extract more value. No one wants Ayton, it’s become evident. Sean Marks is a savvy GM and said no thanks. Ainge didn’t want him. Toronto went for Poetl despite rumors they wanted him. Indiana could’ve flipped Turner for him. The Wizards new GM would rather have CP3 and air.

https://twitter.com/chrisbhaynes/status/...39584?s=46&t=hdMYR5VNI3D4hupTVErxeg

There’s not much of a trade market for Deandre Ayton, per
@wojespn
on
@ryenarussillo’s podcast

“I think the hard part for Phoenix right now is Deandre Ayton’s market is lean. They have to be prepared they’ll have Deandre Ayton back. … They have to prepare for the very likely possibility (Ayton stays). They’ve gone through the marketplace, and I don’t think there’s an obvious deal for Deandre Ayton out there.”

Since the Suns matched the Pacers’ max offer sheet last summer, Ayton also has veto power over any potential deal until July 15.

Ayton is a $20m/yr players. That means there's $44m of dead money in the next 3 years. No one is taking that on and giving like value.

Ayton's contract is so bad, I wouldn't give up Dick for him.

Apparently I like Ayton more than most here but there's just no way to make the money work with Kyrie making around $50 million