2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[Okstate819]

Wonder if Mose will want anyone off our roster. Maybe Powell as a culture builder?

Powell + J-Rich for Ross? add a nice 6th man scorer and 10 M in extra cap space.

[sefant]

Oh, FOR SURE! 

Dream of playing at home in LA? Check.

Another top player on the roster, and an overall team good enough to contend? Check. 

An organization that will cater to your every whim? Check. 

Even the coach is a plus now, I think. 

Tough to imagine how/why Leonard would even seriously consider leaving. I think it's a total non-story.

Clippers bleeding out assistant coaches already. They basically lost over 50 % of their coaching staff. Just saying  

Atkinson gone
Billups gone
Rogers gone

The biggest hurdle is LA imo. He left the championship Raptors to play in LA. Basketball related: I could totally see Kawhi not wanting to be Batman anymore. He was cleary exhausted two post seasons in a row. Its not going to be any better in the next few years. West is a blood bath from the 1st round.

[cjeter24]

Uncle Dennis is indeed part of the package that comes with Kawhi.

And imo, if Kawhi wants to be a Mav, it's so unimportant. Do the deal. Figure out the little stuff later. (And everything else is "little stuff.")

That's something along the lines of what Dlord has been saying on twitter. You sound alot like him lol

[Hogmelon]

If KP = JC and JC = JJJ then KP = JJJ.  Sports math

Scissors > Paper

Paper > Stone

Stone > Scissors

EXTREME SPORTS math!!!

[StepBackJay]

That's something along the lines of what Dlord has been saying on twitter. You sound alot like him lol

Ya but DLord is super negative on the Mavs lately though isn't he?

[Kammrath]

That's something along the lines of what Dlord has been saying on twitter. You sound alot like him lol

I still think FGump is DLord.

[VintagePejav2]

I don’t understand the Dinwiddie hate.

People whine about the 3P% but don’t look at the detailed numbers.. he’s 38.2% from the corners for his career and was at ~37% on ~2 catch-and-shoot att/gm in 18-19 and 19-20.

His PnR ball handler numbers are decent, 0.89 PPP in 19-20 was the same as De’Aaron Fox and Zach LaVine. The eye-popping number is 16.3% FT freq, which was the exact same as Luka in 19-20. Dinwiddie shot 7 ft/gm and is a career 79% from the line.

The defensive numbers are not great but he’s been an overall positive when a heavy rotation player in Brooklyn. Also.. he’s 6’ 6” with a 6’ 8.5” wingspan.

It also feels like some on here have not seen the guy play, he can create his own shot. Check it: https://youtu.be/QoTpFvcmWN0

Hopefully not plan A, but I’d be more than okay with Dinwiddie and another starter added in free agency (Collins, please).

[Scott41theMavs]

I don’t understand the Dinwiddie hate.

People whine about the 3P% but don’t look at the detailed numbers.. he’s 38.2% from the corners for his career and was at ~37% on ~2 catch-and-shoot att/gm in 18-19 and 19-20.

His PnR ball handler numbers are decent, 0.89 PPP in 19-20 was the same as De’Aaron Fox and Zach LaVine. The eye-popping number is 16.3% FT freq, which was the exact same as Luka in 19-20. Dinwiddie shot 7 ft/gm and is a career 79% from the line.

The defensive numbers are not great but he’s been an overall positive when a heavy rotation player in Brooklyn. Also.. he’s 6’ 6” with a 6’ 8.5” wingspan.

It also feels like some on here have not seen the guy play, he can create his own shot. Check it: https://youtu.be/QoTpFvcmWN0

Hopefully not plan A, but I’d be more than okay with Dinwiddie and another starter added in free agency (Collins, please).

I'll take that - but not at the salary he thinks he deserves.

[KillerLeft]

That's something along the lines of what Dlord has been saying on twitter. You sound alot like him lol

[VintagePejav2]

I'll take that - but not at the salary he thinks he deserves.

I don’t think he’s getting $20M+ per.. more like $15M, unless it’s a big 1 year deal somewhere.

For a generally weak free agency class, there is depth with the point guard options.

[DanSchwartzgan]

According to speculation below THJ could be interesting for Indy and JRich for Utah. Neither can realistically get them without SnT. So lets play around with scenarios.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945...ree-agency

These are always fun.  There is the element of pairing team need with player.  Then there is the financial side...what they think guys will be worth.  Several prominent guys aren't mentioned including Conley, Schroder, Dinwiddie, N. Powell, Fournier, Graham, Barton and Drummond.  For those who they have changing teams, here are the categories they fell into:

TP-MLE ($5.9mm):  McConnell, Batum, R. Jackson, Burks, Oladipo, Iggy, Frank N. PJ Tucker, Rose and P. Mills (they actually said a portion of the MLE).

Full MLE:  C. Payne, Noel, D. Green and Dragic, THT

Vet. Minimum:  J. Green

Cap Space above the MLE:  Holmes, Collins, Kawhi, Oubre, C. Paul, and J. Allen

S&T:  J. Rich, THJ, Lowry, Ball

Hard to Tell:  Markkanen, D. Robinson (Houston and Orlando don't have the cap space to go above the MLE for these guys)


There are some good values for the TP-MLE.  I think some of those guys are worth more, but if they are going to the teams listed, that is all they can offer.  I wonder if Lowry might stay put.  The S&T to Philly is problematic unless part of a much larger deal.  How long are Dallas and Miami going to dick around with Kawhi while others go off the board?

I think Utah is more in need of a distributor than a SG if Conley leaves.  But this report and the Hardwood Knocks Podcast both mentioned JRich to Utah.  I will be happy to be wrong if JRich is part of the outgoing for Conley.  If Hardaway is going to follow an old coach, it seems the one going to Orlando makes at least as much sense as the one going to Indy.  Who is going to pay THJ close to what he wants if he doesn't return and isn't part of a S&T?  We should probably be spending more time figuring out the best home for THJ and how he might get there.

The cap room teams are NY, SA, OKC, Dallas, Toronto, Memphis, Miami and Charlotte.  This article has them using the space on Kawhi (Dallas and Miami), Collins (SA and OKC), CP3 (NY), Oubre (Memphis) and Allen (Charlotte).  One of those names is not like the others.  What do SA, OKC and Charlotte do with their space if Atl/Clev. match?  What do Dallas, Miami and NY do if Kawhi/CP3 return home?  That is a ton of space that may/may not be used on the next tier down.  Is there a world in which one of these teams wants KP if they don't get their primary guy (seems like Charlotte and SA since both are taking bigs).

[DanSchwartzgan]

I still think FGump is DLord.

I figured everyone knew this and was just being polite.  I knew the first time he called me out on a cap mistake.  The long held themes he pounds on haven't changed.

[Mavs2021]

These are always fun.  There is the element of pairing team need with player.  Then there is the financial side...what they think guys will be worth.  Several prominent guys aren't mentioned including Conley, Schroder, Dinwiddie, N. Powell, Fournier, Graham, Barton and Drummond.  For those who they have changing teams, here are the categories they fell into:

TP-MLE ($5.9mm):  McConnell, Batum, R. Jackson, Burks, Oladipo, Iggy, Frank N. PJ Tucker, Rose and P. Mills (they actually said a portion of the MLE).

Full MLE:  C. Payne, Noel, D. Green and Dragic, THT

Vet. Minimum:  J. Green

Cap Space above the MLE:  Holmes, Collins, Kawhi, Oubre, C. Paul, and J. Allen

S&T:  J. Rich, THJ, Lowry, Ball

Hard to Tell:  Markkanen, D. Robinson (Houston and Orlando don't have the cap space to go above the MLE for these guys)


There are some good values for the TP-MLE.  I think some of those guys are worth more, but if they are going to the teams listed, that is all they can offer.  I wonder if Lowry might stay put.  The S&T to Philly is problematic unless part of a much larger deal.  How long are Dallas and Miami going to dick around with Kawhi while others go off the board?

I think Utah is more in need of a distributor than a SG if Conley leaves.  But this report and the Hardwood Knocks Podcast both mentioned JRich to Utah.  I will be happy to be wrong if JRich is part of the outgoing for Conley.  If Hardaway is going to follow an old coach, it seems the one going to Orlando makes at least as much sense as the one going to Indy.  Who is going to pay THJ close to what he wants if he doesn't return and isn't part of a S&T?  We should probably be spending more time figuring out the best home for THJ and how he might get there.

The cap room teams are NY, SA, OKC, Dallas, Toronto, Memphis, Miami and Charlotte.  This article has them using the space on Kawhi (Dallas and Miami), Collins (SA and OKC), CP3 (NY), Oubre (Memphis) and Allen (Charlotte).  One of those names is not like the others.  What do SA, OKC and Charlotte do with their space if Atl/Clev. match?  What do Dallas, Miami and NY do if Kawhi/CP3 return home?  That is a ton of space that may/may not be used on the next tier down.  Is there a world in which one of these teams wants KP if they don't get their primary guy (seems like Charlotte and SA since both are taking bigs).

If Cameron Payne gets more money than Markkanen or Robinson, I´ll write Cuban is a god every day for a year. I´ll do it a month, if Payne´s total is even half of theirs.

[Kammrath]

The long held themes he pounds on haven't changed.

Yep same themes on cap, Cuban, and conservative politics.

[DanSchwartzgan]

If Cameron Payne gets more money than Markkanen or Robinson, I´ll write Cuban is a god every day for a year. I´ll do it a month, if Payne´s total is even half of theirs.

I don't think the article said Payne would make more than those two.  It just didn't make clear how two guys who most project to make more than the MLE would get to teams with only the MLE to offer.  Most of the times they envisioned a S&T, they spelled it out.

With that said, if you were looking at a list of backup PG's without their names attached, the guy who shot .440 from three and was +3.7 (despite the fact he replaces a hall of famer when he enters the game) might catch your attention.  The PER of 17.4 and the WS/48 of .158 and the O/D Ratings of 122/112, the per 36's of 16.8/4.8/7.2 while hitting .893 on FT's might look pretty attractive to a team looking at such a list.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I’ve seen a ton of Malcolm Brogdon trades posted.  Has it been brought up that his first two seasons in Milwaukee were under Kidd.  I kind of think I’ve read that, but not positive.  Normally I’d say CAA probably wouldn’t care for the idea of Brogdon (or Conley or Graham) being traded to a team at a position one of their own (Brunson) is about to enter his contract year.  But, if Brunson is part of the outgoing in a deal for Brogdon, it probably sets up both clients for better deals when their contracts are up.

[omahen]

I’ve seen a ton of Malcolm Brogdon trades posted.  Has it been brought up that his first two seasons in Milwaukee were under Kidd.  I kind of think I’ve read that, but not positive.  Normally I’d say CAA probably wouldn’t care for the idea of Brogdon (or Conley or Graham) being traded to a team at a position one of their own (Brunson) is about to enter his contract year.  But, if Brunson is part of the outgoing in a deal for Brogdon, it probably sets up both clients for better deals when their contracts are up.

With Luka, Brunson and DFS extensions kicking in after next seasons Mavs will have decisions to make. Even if they operate under the cap and spend just some 115 mil this season, Luka at 35, Brunson at 10 and DFS at 10 mean roughly additional 45 mil of salary, at least 15 mil over the tax line. As we said many times before, unless Brunson is seen as a starter in the near future, he is more expandable than DFS. It aslo need to be noted Brunson, Maxi, WCS and DFS are all expiring. There is no realistic way for Mavs to have cap space in 2022. But is there another team aiming for that? 

1. Chicago is positioned to have max cap space next year even wif they extend LaVine this season. They could use a little cap relief this season to extend LaVine while keeping flexibility for 2022, but I am not really interested in their role players with Brunson, Kleber or DFS in mind and I doubt Chicago wants to spend more picks. 
2. Cleveland could be nicely positioned in 2022 if they trade Sexton, resign Allen and keep Love (I am not willing to discuss Love unless KP is going the other way), especially if they trade Osman and Nance. Richardson for Nance could be great for Mavs, but I don't see any reasonable deals for Brunson (I doubt Cleveland would consider something like Brunson+Kleber for Sexton).
3. If Indiana moves Turner and Brogdon for expiring salary, they would only have Sabonis, LeVert and some minor contracts in 2022, easily max cap space. So Kleber and Brunson for either Turner or Brogdon makes sense salary wise. But I think they would want more in assets.

[Mavs2021]

With Luka, Brunson and DFS extensions kicking in after next seasons Mavs will have decisions to make. Even if they operate under the cap and spend just some 115 mil this season, Luka at 35, Brunson at 10 and DFS at 10 mean roughly additional 45 mil of salary, at least 15 mil over the tax line. As we said many times before, unless Brunson is seen as a starter in the near future, he is more expandable than DFS. It aslo need to be noted Brunson, Maxi, WCS and DFS are all expiring. There is no realistic way for Mavs to have cap space in 2022. But is there another team aiming for that? 

There are ways to have capspace.

Porzingis 33.9 (reduce this salary by at least half in a trade, Harris/Bamba/pick, Turner/Lamb, Adams/Bledsoe)
Luka 25.4 (caphold, still nobody answered whether his super-max salary counts or the caphold? Anyone know?)
Powell 11.1
Kleber 9.0 (non-guaranteed)
DFS 7.6
Green 3.1
Burke 3.0
Terry 1.7

No doubt if you want to sign Lavine, you can move Kleber (non-guaranteed) + Powell (expiring) + Burke (expiring) + 1st to a team like OKC. That should be no problem at all. Two virtually firsts for 14M of Powell/Burke is a great deal.

Luka 40 (worst case, $15M more if it´s the caphold that counts)
Lavine 33
Turner 18
DFS 7.6
Green 3.1
Terry 1.7
=========
103.4

Against a projected cap of +$120M it´s possible.

[dynamicalVoid]

There are ways to have capspace.

Porzingis 33.9 (reduce this salary by at least half in a trade, Harris/Bamba/pick, Turner/Lamb, Adams/Bledsoe)
Luka 25.4 (caphold, still nobody answered whether his super-max salary counts or the caphold? Anyone know?)
Powell 11.1
Kleber 9.0 (non-guaranteed)
DFS 7.6
Green 3.1
Burke 3.0
Terry 1.7

No doubt if you want to sign Lavine, you can move Kleber (non-guaranteed) + Powell (expiring) + Burke (expiring) + 1st to a team like OKC. That should be no problem at all. Two virtually firsts for 14M of Powell/Burke is a great deal.

Luka 40 (worst case, $15M more if it´s the caphold that counts)
Lavine 33
Turner 18
DFS 7.6
Green 3.1
Terry 1.7
=========
103.4

Against a projected cap of +$120M it´s possible.

---

I am reading something that is saying that a caphold cannot exceed what the player can receive on the open market.

If true...does open market include players current team(in this case Luka and Designated Player Max?)...or is it the max other teams can offer said player?

I read it as the max that other teams can offer.

Dont know if this helps.  Dont know if this is factual.

[Mavs2021]

---

I am reading something that is saying that a caphold cannot exceed what the player can receive on the open market.

If true...does open market include players current team(in this case Luka and Designated Player Max?)...or is it the max other teams can offer said player?

I read it as the max that other teams can offer.

Dont know if this helps.  Dont know if this is factual.

The problem is usually Luka would sign the extension next summer, in which case the caphold would count. I don´t know what happens, when you agree to the super-max extension before next summer. Does that automatically mean the new super-max salary eliminates the caphold, although the extension itself doesn´t start until 2022/2023? Also can you basically have a handshake agreement now, but not make it official until next summer (signature) to stay at the caphold?  

That is a pretty significant question, since it´s $15M in capspace we are talking about.