2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[StepBackJay]

I'll say it a million times, Boban's value as a chemistry guy is worth its weight in gold. We need a guy like that in a locker room. 

Would much rather add Burke than Boban.

Okay but what place are when in again, 8th? Chemistry from your 15th guy is overrated.

[StepBackJay]

https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/...97188?s=20

So we are basically screwed until the league changes the rules with this sort of thing

[chaparral]

Okay but what place are when in again, 8th? Chemistry from your 15th guy is overrated.

It's the 2 Balkans vs the Baltic guy.

[SleepingHero]

All three have been mentioned in trade rumors. All three should be on the Mavs radar. Not to mention that all three are playing on teams that also have some interesting vets.

Bagley would be my first, second, and third choice out of those 3. I think here he'd have a clear defined role with minimal expectations and there wouldn't be the whole "We coulda had Luka" cloud hanging over him.

Bamba seems too uncoordinated to last in the league and while I like WCJr, I don't think he'd slide in so easily here.

---

Okay but what place are when in again, 8th? Chemistry from your 15th guy is overrated.

Sure we're 8th, but 2.5 games back from 5th and only 4gb from 4th. Very real argument that if the Mavs weren't ravaged by COVID they'd be sitting a lot higher in the standings, even with the issues they've had so far. 

Further, we can also say if we didn't have Boban keeping things lighthearted and the team together, the Mavs could be a lot worse off and might even be 12th/13th.

[StepBackJay]

It's creative for sure to workout a 3-team deal between GSW/CLE/DAL where KP goes to GSW and the Mavs get Love/Wiseman/whatever else is necessary.

But my main hangup is the fact we're basically trading out a 25 year old version of a stretch big thats oft injured for a 32 year old version of a stretch big thats oft injured.

Sure we get Wiseman, which is a good get don't get me wrong, but he isn't going to help the Mavs win now at all. And there is a realistic chance that Wiseman never develops past what he is now. 

It's risky, and a lateral move imo.

I think KP is overrated. Not a bad player but overrated. He is a stretch 5 that can play interior defense when healthy. He can score at a much higher clip than so-called other stretch 5s that can hit like a couple of outside 3's a game. I think Wiseman is a better fit so I like some kind of deal whereby you get Wiseman and cap space (ie Oubre). 

The Love deal I am more lukewarm on but remember you are shipping out Powell's dead weight contract in the process. Love I think has been fake injured most of the time on a bad team, I bet he's healthy whenever he finds himself on a good team.

All that to say Mavs could swing for the fences if they wanted to and make 2 big moves: one for the future (KP for Wiseman) and one for the now (some overpaid player that is additive like a Love or Gallo).

[StepBackJay]

Bagley would be my first, second, and third choice out of those 3. I think here he'd have a clear defined role with minimal expectations and there wouldn't be the whole "We coulda had Luka" cloud hanging over him.

Bamba seems too uncoordinated to last in the league and while I like WCJr, I don't think he'd slide in so easily here.

---

Sure we're 8th, but 2.5 games back from 5th and only 4gb from 4th. Very real argument that if the Mavs weren't ravaged by COVID they'd be sitting a lot higher in the standings, even with the issues they've had so far. 

Further, we can also say if we didn't have Boban keeping things lighthearted and the team together, the Mavs could be a lot worse off and might even be 12th/13th.

I think Boban has literally no effect on the Mavs standings in any sort of material way even tho I like him as a player and person.

[SleepingHero]

I think Boban has literally no effect on the Mavs standings in any sort of material way even tho I like him as a player and person.

When getting into intangibles it's impossible to actually quantify their effect on the team. So I won't speculate on the actual tangible effect Boban has on the standings.

BUT it is very much noticeable how Boban's presence lightens things up, and how close he is with Luka. So much so that I don't think it'd be a smart move to get rid of that especially because we don't really have another guy like that in the locker room.

[mavsluvr]

He works with @"mavsluvr" on the broadcast team.  He also doesn't seem drunk.

hahaha, Omigosh

[SleepingHero]

I think KP is overrated. Not a bad player but overrated. He is a stretch 5 that can play interior defense when healthy. He can score at a much higher clip than so-called other stretch 5s that can hit like a couple of outside 3's a game. I think Wiseman is a better fit so I like some kind of deal whereby you get Wiseman and cap space (ie Oubre). 

Overrated in what way might I ask? The only reason why I'm a little puzzled is because since KP has suited up for the Mavs, I feel he's been significantly underrated by many. People always have doubted him. They question if he can ever be healthy. Be an effective shooter. Work next to Luka. Question his attitude.

Some of these doubts obviously have merit and should be asked, but some are a bit of a stretch where we as fans are conjuring up narratives based on performance/interview snippets. 

From what we've seen so far is that KP is a 20/9 kind of guy, with potential to be a 26/10 kind of guy when he's 100%. How often he can be 100% is up in the air. So far he's played in 71% of games for the Mavs (not counting his post trade time where the Mavs deliberately kept him out). 

I don't think KP is untouchable in every case. I don't mind upgrading him for a player of his caliber today. But I think it's counterintuitive to winning if we're trading our clear cut 2nd player for projects or other oft injured guys.

[JamesConway]

Not hard to imagine a Lonzo-interest given that they tried to get Haliburton. Both long PGs, high BBIQ, not much of PnR or in between-game scorers but good passers with some shooting ability off the ball and defensive capabilities which should be enough to space the floor in halfcourt settings. Somewhat like a developmental version of JKidd to manage the team alongside Luka.

I‘d be pretty excited if we could get in on Lonzo but my guess is he has played himself out of our range trade-wise. Maybe come ®FA time?

Ball
JRICH 
Luka
Kleber/DFS
KP

That’s a fun team with lots of size, shooting, playmaking and defense. Also pretty young with some hope for internal improvements.

[StepBackJay]

Overrated in what way might I ask? The only reason why I'm a little puzzled is because since KP has suited up for the Mavs, I feel he's been significantly underrated by many. People always have doubted him. They question if he can ever be healthy. Be an effective shooter. Work next to Luka. Question his attitude.

Some of these doubts obviously have merit and should be asked, but some are a bit of a stretch where we as fans are conjuring up narratives based on performance/interview snippets. 

From what we've seen so far is that KP is a 20/9 kind of guy, with potential to be a 26/10 kind of guy when he's 100%. How often he can be 100% is up in the air. So far he's played in 71% of games for the Mavs (not counting his post trade time where the Mavs deliberately kept him out). 

I don't think KP is untouchable in every case. I don't mind upgrading him for a player of his caliber today. But I think it's counterintuitive to winning if we're trading our clear cut 2nd player for projects or other oft injured guys.

I was all in on KP before but I think his offensive game is more limited than I ever thought. He doesn't really play off of Luka at all in the PnR which I had that would be a staple of their game today. He mostly shoots long 3s and midrange jumpers that make me uneasy every time I see them.

I don't see him do much off the dribble or run off screens for catch and shoot opportunities like I thought I would. I don't like his post-ups and I wouldn't trust them in a big game. I trust his long 3's in clutch moments more than I do his post-up game.

All that to say his offensive game is limited. Not terrible bc he does open up spacing but not star-level either.

Defensively he has struggled but I do think that is going to come back. His value to this team is mostly around him being a well-rounded two way player that has a unique combination of skills.

His injury history and attitude are too big concerns for me. If KP is going to get injured a lot then he is no good to this team. If he has an attitude issue then he isn't going to mesh well either. I worry that since he and Luka don't really have much on-court chemistry he is relegated to just another spacer. I have a hard time believing he is going to be happy with that role on this team.

[Lucky Luciano]

I understand some of you gentlemen feel KP's early play has been in need of desperate improvement even if you haven't noticed the last few games. I also understand some of you are bored atm and love coming up with cool trade possibilities especially if you feel it could shake things up and we could "Possibly" play better. 

Thing is for the love of God I cannot find myself anything but mind boggled at the idea of trading away a 25 year old budding super star for an old way out of his prime always hurt Kevin Love on a albatross contract that is still owed 3 years.

Please fellas, relax and enjoy the fact we are 9-2 our last 11 games and trending very positively after our Covid/Injury riddled team still managed to go into ASB with a plus 2 above 500 record. Remember that the 4th best team in the east in only 1 game above 500. I understand some panic a few weeks back but we don't need to fire sale everything not named Luka, we need to relax and have some faith

[ClutchDirk]

I understand some of you gentlemen feel KP's early play has been in need of desperate improvement even if you haven't noticed the last few games. I also understand some of you are bored atm and love coming up with cool trade possibilities especially if you feel it could shake things up and we could "Possibly" play better. 

Thing is for the love of God I cannot find myself anything but mind boggled at the idea of trading away a 25 year old budding super star for an old way out of his prime always hurt Kevin Love on a albatross contract that is still owed 3 years.

Please fellas, relax and enjoy the fact we are 9-2 our last 11 games and trending very positively after our Covid/Injury riddled team still managed to go into ASB with a plus 2 above 500 record. Remember that the 4th best team in the east in only 1 game above 500. I understand some panic a few weeks back but we don't need to fire sale everything not named Luka, we need to relax and have some faith

https://media.giphy.com/media/iIkvhgxti7.../giphy.gif

[cow]

I'm not sure about KP being overrated but his play has certainly been underwhelming.  I'm going to put a huge chunk of that blame on Carlisle and Luka. We were all excited about KP when the trade happened and during his rehab.  Most of his best play has come when Luka was hurt.  Maybe the pairing just doesn't work but I certainly don't love the lack of creativity in our offense in deploying the Unicorn.  The trade ideas are fun and I kind of side with the "part ways" camp mostly due to how injury prone he is.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/TheHoopCentral/statu...7605594114

Pretty interesting teams included there.

[TXBamanut]

I'm not sure about KP being overrated but his play has certainly been underwhelming.  I'm going to put a huge chunk of that blame on Carlisle and Luka. We were all excited about KP when the trade happened and during his rehab.  Most of his best play has come when Luka was hurt.  Maybe the pairing just doesn't work but I certainly don't love the lack of creativity in our offense in deploying the Unicorn.  The trade ideas are fun and I kind of side with the "part ways" camp mostly due to how injury prone he is.

I just think most of you are suffering from "Grass is always Greener" syndrome.  It's like we have these two camps that drastically underrate KP or drastically overrate him.

In all of these trades, you'll be on the short end of the stick short-term and probably long term for what you'll get.  Wiggins...come on.  Wiseman...meh-be...

Do I feel stuck right now?  Yes, but not stuck enough to sell incredibly low on KP.  I doubt seriously that Donnie and Cuban have shopped him adn still feel that is some rival agent or GM trying to muddy the waters to get a deal by driving his price down...that's more about someone seeing an opportunity, to me, than actual reality.

I would much rather stick it out, see what happens and then, if we are trading him, do it in the off-season...and hope his value goes up some, now that the Mavs are playing better, everyone is healthy and he's actually getting his legs under him somewhat.

I'm completely bought in on just leaving it like it is and seeing where we end up at the end of the season.  Outside of a major injury, I don't see his value dropping much more, and in all likelihood, it will increase.  If we had traded him right out of the bubble last year, no telling what we could have gotten for him...but right now, no.

[StepBackJay]

I understand some of you gentlemen feel KP's early play has been in need of desperate improvement even if you haven't noticed the last few games. I also understand some of you are bored atm and love coming up with cool trade possibilities especially if you feel it could shake things up and we could "Possibly" play better. 

Thing is for the love of God I cannot find myself anything but mind boggled at the idea of trading away a 25 year old budding super star for an old way out of his prime always hurt Kevin Love on a albatross contract that is still owed 3 years.

Please fellas, relax and enjoy the fact we are 9-2 our last 11 games and trending very positively after our Covid/Injury riddled team still managed to go into ASB with a plus 2 above 500 record. Remember that the 4th best team in the east in only 1 game above 500. I understand some panic a few weeks back but we don't need to fire sale everything not named Luka, we need to relax and have some faith

Literally no one has suggested trading KP for Kevin Love but good job knocking down that straw man.

[cow]

I just think most of you are suffering from "Grass is always Greener" syndrome.  It's like we have these two camps that drastically underrate KP or drastically overrate him.

In all of these trades, you'll be on the short end of the stick short-term and probably long term for what you'll get.  Wiggins...come on.  Wiseman...meh-be...

Do I feel stuck right now?  Yes, but not stuck enough to sell incredibly low on KP.  I doubt seriously that Donnie and Cuban have shopped him adn still feel that is some rival agent or GM trying to muddy the waters to get a deal by driving his price down...that's more about someone seeing an opportunity, to me, than actual reality.

I would much rather stick it out, see what happens and then, if we are trading him, do it in the off-season...and hope his value goes up some, now that the Mavs are playing better, everyone is healthy and he's actually getting his legs under him somewhat.

I'm completely bought in on just leaving it like it is and seeing where we end up at the end of the season.  Outside of a major injury, I don't see his value dropping much more, and in all likelihood, it will increase.  If we had traded him right out of the bubble last year, no telling what we could have gotten for him...but right now, no.

Leaving it as is is where I imagine the MBT are and I think most everyone agrees.  MBT might pull the trigger on a no-brainer trade but I don't think one of those exists given KP's injuries and history of play with the Mavs.  

I'm not a grass is always greener guy and I don't think they need to make a move just to make a move, but it seems obvious that the pairing just isn't working as intended.  

I'd rather try new coaching staff before giving up on KP, but that comes at the risk of further injuries and further devaluing him.  If a trade did happen, I'd love for it to be GSW just to see if he flourishes or not.  Maybe seeing him be the player they traded for what make the Mavericks do some self evaluation.  Probably not though.

[Hypermav]

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2021/03/07/b...porzingis/

"In a very tight conference, the Bulls could absolutely be aggressive. They are not too far off and a duo of Kristaps Porzingis and Zach LaVine would make them a borderline contender. The move would also give them something impressive to build around for years to come."

Couple of thoughts, I see Bulls fans write Markkanen is better than KP.  If LaVine and KP are contenders what does that make the Mavs?  What do the Bulls have that the Mavs would want outside of LaVine?

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Overrated in what way might I ask? 

Inefficient scorer/shooter.  This current season is by far his most efficient season shooting and he's right at league average.

I thought he'd be great pick and popping with Luka but it looks like he's never set a screen in his life.  Anytime the offense has to go through him, it's bad shots.  (albeit ones he's talented enough to hit)  He's basically a bad shot maker with no go to moves.