GAME 37: DEN (26-11) @ DAL (23-14) | 106-107 loss

[dmavs4life03]

I guess TV glorifies the ''good" three

It’s not TV that glorifies the good three. It’s math.

Its math when  you have 40% shooters. When you have 32%, 35%, 29%, other options should not be spurned.

Which is why the rockets beat GSW 3 years in a row in the playoffs to get titles right??  And the run and gun Suns from 05-10 did much. Or how about the 03 Mavs that made me a fan.... they went far chucking 3s (and yes i know Dirk getting injured) and Kerr going off changed that series but you get my point. 

In the playoffs, its about matchups and we play STUPID rotations and run a sillier offensive scheme that the math says is unsustainable in the playoffs. We are predictable and bad and predictable. Coach is not bringing out the best of his players but hey we saw that when we lost to the knicks twice, portland, raptors, clippers and several other games recently.

Players are played out of position, we cant secure rebounds, we play this "stand at the 3 point line and watch Luka" offense and teams are finding ways to beat it and we show no knew wrinkles to adjust. "Flow" = let Luka be Nash/Harden/LBJ and everyone else watch.

Dont look now but the spurs are creeping to take our spot as are the thunder.

[dirkfansince1998]

Its math when  you have 40% shooters. When you have 32%, 35%, 29%, other options should not be spurned.

Wright 40%
Kleber 40%
DFS 39%
THJ 39%
Curry 39%
KP 34%
Brunson 33%
Doncic 33%
Jackson 30%
Powell 26%

Numbers aren´t lying. You don´t have to make the up.

[TurkishMFFL]

It makes me so sad ...  reading this comments..
But we should be proud on mavs. They fought well against the team with more and stronger weapons, with more experience  and at the end that prevailed. Simple as that, last two plays where the big picture of both teams value. Mavs could not DT Joker, Nuggets could afford that on Luka with ease with a reason. It's simple tactic. Heads up, it's new game soon.

Well I am proud of them and my expectation were not that high anyway, but how should we see the inability to score at the end of games and lose one after another, most of which with a meltdown?

Inexperience? Is that it? The team let 30 point lead slip away in Toronto and not getting a single bit of a lesson from it can't be a matter of being proud, right? How many games have been lost because of atrocious plays in the clutch?

You might want to watch some Grizzlies games if you have the time and see how a young and inexperienced team LEARN in time and get better each day.

The Dallas Mavericks are young and inexperienced but they are relatively slowly learning and improving, particularly because of RC and his Jason Garrett style plays in clutch time. And the kind of losses they get do not help in a good way.

[Dahlsim]

Joker feasted  on the Mavs. Mavs don't have anyone to matchup with him.  Powell and Kleber don't have the strength to guard him, should have put in Boban. I mean why not?

 Actually, I thought Kleber played some pretty good defense on him several times tonight

Powell and Kleber did everything they could. Jokic made 4 3s. Nothing they can do about it. Boban would have been a liability because Jokic is the master of backdoor passes and handoffs. Boban is not fast enough to stay in front of the guard and cannot recover in time.

We keep saying Boban would be a Liability yet the opponent is scoring all the buckets they need to take the lead and game at the end anyway.  On the other side Dallas is not forcing the opponent to guard similar tough to defend sets with inside options so Jokic has all his energy free to use on the other end.  
Dallas again had a lead.  They could also have won the game by scoring a few buckets.  If Boban is helping you score in the clutch how can he be any more of a liability than the liabilities that are already leading to Maverick L's after repeated lost leads.

I agree on single possession base. If I know that the Nuggets are going to post up Jokic and just need a single basket I take my chances with Boban. Over a 48 minute game Powell and Kleber were the better options. Same for the entire postup debate. The Mavs don´t need to change their entire gameplan. Motion pick and roll with Luka as the ballhandler works and should be the 1st option. They just need a backup plan that can create 2-points against half court defense.

That's an oversimplification.  Offensive plays built initiated or built around post up and around the Biggest players dominating around the rim is no longer the dominant style of play that's for sure but its also not useless or completely dead.  
No one is suggesting changing the Mavs entire game plan. Its working very well, just not so much when it matters the most.
Its a much smaller part of good offensives but still really an essential part of the elite offenses. 

Every team now is playing some sort of space and pace. Every team is shooting far more 3's than the old day and playing those percentages.  So what now separates the top teams from the good, middle and poor teams other than having the best 3 point shooters?   

Of course one answer is defense, but another is having these options for inside almost guaranteed scoring such the Nuggets got from Jokic.  He burned the mavs outside with 3's but then in the clutch he went inside and got those high % almost guaranteed shots in the post and at the rim. 

The Lakers now have post and big man paint options with AD, Mav cast-off JaVale McGee and Dwight Howard.  
The defending champion Lakers got Kawhi who has all 3 levels of offense including a post up game, they also went and got Marc Gasol to go with Pascal Siakam also good in the post and paint.
Even the pace and space poster Child GSW always made sure they had those options, check the big men rotations but really put CLE and the league out the picture when Durant came along with all 3 levels including Post Play. 

Mavs seem to only be comfortable with Luka there, and he's great but also not a true Big man and is taking punishment.
Carlisle makes up for it to a large degree with a lot of lobs and cuts from his bigs so its not as though they can't compete, but they come up short on options when those are taken away. 
it's not an option for the most part in Carlisle's systems and at times, his teams miss it and pay for it as other teams they are chasing, like Denver tonight, do have it.

[LukTheShadow]

It makes me so sad ...  reading this comments..
But we should be proud on mavs. They fought well against the team with more and stronger weapons, with more experience  and at the end that prevailed. Simple as that, last two plays where the big picture of both teams value. Mavs could not DT Joker, Nuggets could afford that on Luka with ease with a reason. It's simple tactic. Heads up, it's new game soon.

Well I am proud of them and my expectation were not that high anyway, but how should we see the inability to score at the end of games and lose one after another, most of which with a meltdown?

Inexperience? Is that it? The team let 30 point lead slip away in Toronto and not getting a single bit of a lesson from it can't be a matter of being proud, right? How many games have been lost because of atrocious plays in the clutch?

You might want to watch some Grizzlies games if you have the time and see how a young and inexperienced team LEARN in time and get better each day.

The Dallas Mavericks are young and inexperienced but they are relatively slowly learning and improving, particularly because of RC and his Jason Garrett style plays in clutch time. And the kind of losses they get do not help in a good way.

As much I understand and concur with your thoughts I would not equalize all clutch time L's. Toronto debacle was way different than tonight's clutch for instance. I won't repeat what I already wrote but I'll add that mavs learning curve bent significantly since starters injuries started in early December. New rotations needs time to click and not clicking could be seeing on the easiest ways in the critical situations which clutch finish certainly is. Even only missing one important piece can disturb starters and bench team. Opposite teams knows that and ...  In last sec clutch there is no place to think what to do if things going out of the plan, team have to react spontaneous and only way to learn this is to play and play and play together and learn by doing.
Yes, I admire MEM's progress lately but I just have to be bold and say that they needed 22 L's to start learning, our mavs are at 14th atm.
L in clutch hearts more but at the end of the day is still only L, this time against DAL which is a very serious team.

[dmavs4life03]

Its math when  you have 40% shooters. When you have 32%, 35%, 29%, other options should not be spurned.

Wright 40%
Kleber 40%
DFS 39%
THJ 39%
Curry 39%
KP 34%
Brunson 33%
Doncic 33%
Jackson 30%
Powell 26%

Numbers aren´t lying. You don´t have to make the up.

Sorry I was guessing our percentages given what I heard from games and I know powell is shooting below 30% Doncic is at mid 30s and brunson, JJ and KP (though in slumps now) are only making the shot 1/3 of the time. If thats your offense attack, no wonder we cant get easy shots. 

And to be honest, do you think other teams scout Delon/Maxi or even Dorian from 3. There's a difference between 40% shooters and SHOOTERS. There's a difference in your guys needing to be open with feet set over your JET/Ray Allen/Peja/Klay type shooters. On this team we have Luka/THJ/Seth as elite shooters with decent ability to mix it up and they are defended as such.One thing with Delon that frustrates me is he goes passive too much sometimes passing off a ok look at three for a worse one for someone else. But the coaching plan of all these 3s dont work. Especially in clutch games vs good teams.

 I'm sure we remember back in 2011 when Kidd or more specifically Stevenson would get trigger happy with the 3 point attempts and everyone would say (come on, pass it to JET or Dirk, or stop shooting so much) even though percentages were "good". And late in games, the offense fed off the defense and in half court, everyone on offense had to be respected to contribute in their own way to not be 4-5 like the Mavs of old. The plan was still P&R or post up Dirk but you had to respect Tyson on lobs/putbacks/cleanups,Matrix could post/slip backdoor and cut, Kidd would make the open 3, Dirk/JET pick/pop or Dirk post up. We rarely see any of this when we need a bucket to protect a vanishing lead or to make the comeback. Tyson/Haywood weren't out shooting 3s, Trix didn't, 
 
And the defenses don't respect ours but know they can press Doncic and just try to pick off the swing passes to the corners because midrange shots are banned in our offense. You'd think after having a legend who could get to His spot, shoot/post up/pass and trust the muscle memory/training to get us buckets (along with being automatic at the FT line) we'd repeat this. But no.

So as I've said before, the coaching isn't putting the players in position to succeed or is demanding things from them that is not of the strengths or conducive to winning in clutch time. Between playing guys outta position, the 3 happy offense, great TO management (lol) + our mediocre defense= about a 1st round exit if even make it in the crowded west. I hope to eat crow on this statement because philosophy changes cause if it doesn't we'll be the combination of the young thunder/harden rockets/lob city teams that cant do much in the postseason to justify the hype in the year.
 We're probably talking past one another but time will tell.

[hakeemfan]

Dahl: Mavs seem to only be comfortable with Luka there, and he's great but also not a true Big man and is taking punishment.
Carlisle makes up for it to a large degree with a lot of lobs and cuts from his bigs so its not as though they can't compete, but they come up short on options when those are taken away.
it's not an option for the most part in Carlisle's systems and at times, his teams miss it and pay for it as other teams they are chasing, like Denver tonight, do have it.

—-

Re. Your above point. Maybe that is the fix for this team’s clutch offense. You are correct that this team plays a 4 or 5 out offense and relies on cuts/movement to get easier baskets. The problem is in clutch time there seems to be too much standing around and it’s almost like they forget what has got them there. So the offense looks worse than it is especially when you lose tough games.

The quickest fix for me would be putting Jackson in the finishing line up. Not because he is among the best 5 as much as the fact that he is always moving. If you then can get one more guy to not just stay static in the clutch, IMO. this offense could be much more difficult to defend on the clutch too... post ups or no post ups.

[bartlettbear]

Dahl: Mavs seem to only be comfortable with Luka there, and he's great but also not a true Big man and is taking punishment.
Carlisle makes up for it to a large degree with a lot of lobs and cuts from his bigs so its not as though they can't compete, but they come up short on options when those are taken away.
it's not an option for the most part in Carlisle's systems and at times, his teams miss it and pay for it as other teams they are chasing, like Denver tonight, do have it.

—-

Re. Your above point. Maybe that is the fix for this team’s clutch offense. You are correct that this team plays a 4 or 5 out offense and relies on cuts/movement to get easier baskets. The problem is in clutch time there seems to be too much standing around and it’s almost like they forget what has got them there. So the offense looks worse than it is especially when you lose tough games.

The quickest fix for me would be putting Jackson in the finishing line up. Not because he is among the best 5 as much as the fact that he is always moving. If you then can get one more guy to not just stay static in the clutch, IMO. this offense could be much more difficult to defend on the clutch too... post ups or no post ups.

You are correct but see that makes him top 5 becuase he can shot and finish and create his own shot and he moves with out the ball better than on the team

---

Posting up Luka the end of the game would solve all you problems,

run a pick and pop with Hardaway and say KP on one side of court send a cross with the other wing towards Luka, then Luka end up ball side on the low block,

Rick need to retract his statement about post basketball and win some game.

[hakeemfan]

Dahl: Mavs seem to only be comfortable with Luka there, and he's great but also not a true Big man and is taking punishment.
Carlisle makes up for it to a large degree with a lot of lobs and cuts from his bigs so its not as though they can't compete, but they come up short on options when those are taken away.
it's not an option for the most part in Carlisle's systems and at times, his teams miss it and pay for it as other teams they are chasing, like Denver tonight, do have it.

—-

Re. Your above point. Maybe that is the fix for this team’s clutch offense.  You are correct that this team plays a 4 or 5 out offense and relies on cuts/movement to get easier baskets. The problem is in clutch time there seems to be too much standing around and it’s almost like they forget what has got them there.  So the offense looks worse than it is especially when you lose tough games.

The quickest fix for me would be putting Jackson in the finishing line up.  Not because he is among the best 5 as much as the fact that he is always moving. If you then can get one more guy to not just stay static in the clutch, IMO. this offense could be much more difficult to defend on the clutch too... post ups or no post ups.

You are correct but see that makes him top 5 becuase he can shot and finish and create his own shot and he moves with out the ball better than on the team

---

Posting up Luka the end of the game would solve all you problems,

run a pick and pop with  Hardaway and say KP  on one side of court send a cross with the other wing towards Luka,  then Luka end up ball side on the low block, 

Rick need to retract his statement about post basketball and win some game.

I have said this before. Whatever Denver is doing with Jokic, do that with Luka. Luka can do all those things..pass, shoot, post up.  You don’t want to limit his creativity by just having him post up but just need to change his mindset to be more like Jokic in knowing when to give up the ball and when to punish the defense.

[OBX Maverick]

With the exception of last night when the inbounds pass/execution was a cluster, improved execution at the end of games is a pretty simple formula: move the ball to the open man like we do the other 47 minutes of the game. 

If we continue to let Luka dribble the ball at mid court until the clock is down to 5 seconds and hope that he makes a step back 3, we are destined for many more disappointing endings .  We are doing the same thing at the end of a lot quarters as well. Not sure why RC hasn’t addressed this in a meaningful way.

[Dahlsim]

Dahl: Mavs seem to only be comfortable with Luka there, and he's great but also not a true Big man and is taking punishment.
Carlisle makes up for it to a large degree with a lot of lobs and cuts from his bigs so its not as though they can't compete, but they come up short on options when those are taken away.
it's not an option for the most part in Carlisle's systems and at times, his teams miss it and pay for it as other teams they are chasing, like Denver tonight, do have it.

—-

Re. Your above point. Maybe that is the fix for this team’s clutch offense.  You are correct that this team plays a 4 or 5 out offense and relies on cuts/movement to get easier baskets. The problem is in clutch time there seems to be too much standing around and it’s almost like they forget what has got them there.  So the offense looks worse than it is especially when you lose tough games.

The quickest fix for me would be putting Jackson in the finishing line up.  Not because he is among the best 5 as much as the fact that he is always moving. If you then can get one more guy to not just stay static in the clutch, IMO. this offense could be much more difficult to defend on the clutch too... post ups or no post ups.

Your point there is almost certainly more in line with Rick Carlisle's thinking then what I wished he would consider although I know he almost certainly won't change his fundamental style.  Fundamentally he doesn't want or feels he needs the traditional post up sets and the traditional inside offensive big men in his offense. 

Coach Carlisle's comments and approach indicates that he thinks the team just needs to do a better job of executing the offense as he designs and teaches it.  If they do that he probably feels they'll be fine in the 1/2 court and in the clutch. 

Mavs championship team had the 3 headed 5 of Chandler, Haywood Mahinmi.  No real post up players there but they did have good offensive ability among them and they definitely had the beefiness and rebounding to compete with anyone inside.  
No sure we're seeing enough of that on this team, particularly because they hardly use Boban, their best rebounding and inside offensive Big. 

So yeah, My guess is Carlisle is going to keep trying get these young guys to try and run his system closer to perfection, as you describe it, not likely to add a fundamental difference as a wrinkle to fix closing problemd.

---

Dahl: Mavs seem to only be comfortable with Luka there, and he's great but also not a true Big man and is taking punishment.
Carlisle makes up for it to a large degree with a lot of lobs and cuts from his bigs so its not as though they can't compete, but they come up short on options when those are taken away.
it's not an option for the most part in Carlisle's systems and at times, his teams miss it and pay for it as other teams they are chasing, like Denver tonight, do have it.

—-

Re. Your above point. Maybe that is the fix for this team’s clutch offense.  You are correct that this team plays a 4 or 5 out offense and relies on cuts/movement to get easier baskets. The problem is in clutch time there seems to be too much standing around and it’s almost like they forget what has got them there.  So the offense looks worse than it is especially when you lose tough games.

The quickest fix for me would be putting Jackson in the finishing line up.  Not because he is among the best 5 as much as the fact that he is always moving. If you then can get one more guy to not just stay static in the clutch, IMO. this offense could be much more difficult to defend on the clutch too... post ups or no post ups.

You are correct but see that makes him top 5 becuase he can shot and finish and create his own shot and he moves with out the ball better than on the team

---

Posting up Luka the end of the game would solve all you problems,

run a pick and pop with  Hardaway and say KP  on one side of court send a cross with the other wing towards Luka,  then Luka end up ball side on the low block, 

Rick need to retract his statement about post basketball and win some game.

I have said this before. Whatever Denver is doing with Jokic, do that with Luka. Luka can do all those things..pass, shoot, post up.  You don’t want to limit his creativity by just having him post up but just need to change his mindset to be more like Jokic in knowing when to give up the ball and when to punish the defense.

I agree with this more than I disagree, but I do think in terms of post offense around the rim, Jokic > Luka.  Joker just shot right over top of a leaping DFS for an almost guaranteed bucket.  That sort of inside bucket is not quite as easy for Luka. 
You still can't teach size.

[hakeemfan]

Dahl. Yes. There are some things that Jokic can do that Luka can’t. However there are things Luka can that Jokic can’t. Ultimately both are big for their positions, well rounded , and nightmare matchups.

What hurts Luka is that unlike Jokic, the ball sometimes tends to stick too much in his hands. Regardless of size if Jokic did that his team would suffer too.

[Dahlsim]

Dahl. Yes. There are some things that Jokic can do that Luka can’t.  However there are things Luka can that Jokic can’t.  Ultimately both are big for their positions, well rounded , and nightmare matchups.

What hurts Luka is that unlike Jokic, the ball sometimes tends to stick too much in his hands. Regardless of size if Jokic did that his team would suffer too.

Yeah, not comparing Jokic to Luka overall, only as an inside post threat. 
In Luka's case yes, he's definitely got great size his position and is very good, but the defense can put a bigger guy on him inside and/or bigger guys can help against him.  

Luka's still great even against help, especially  because he's an elite passer but Jokic is also an elite passer difference is its harder to put a bigger player on Jokic.  Its almost like guarding against Boban once he's  right a the rim.  its very, very hard on the defense, especially without fouling.  You have defend those giant skilled big guys by not letting them get to the spot which then compromises your defense if you can't do it one on one. 

That said, yeah, I love Luka right at the rim to score, I just think the defense is in more trouble trying to stop a 7 foot + wide body right at the rim. Heck DFS actually played great defense and a shorter player might well have gotten their shot blocked as we saw Finney do to other good players including earlier against Nuggets.