GAME 11: DAL (6-5) @ NYK (3-9) | 103-106 loss

[Davevoid]

Fif. I said a chucking 3 pt offense is going to kill this team.  I said this in preseason.  I don’t mind losses when I see teams doing the right thing but are overmatched.  This offense is not the right one for a team having two stars who can get a shot closer to the basket whenever they want.  It’s plain lazy basketball.

Signed

I'd sign that as well, however all the analytics nerds ruined this forever.

Welcome to the new NBA...

[robillionaire]

I was at the game. Man, KP sucks. Max contract Ryan Anderson. Candidate for a stretch waive in year 5. DSJ is great

[SportPsychMav]

Fif. I said a chucking 3 pt offense is going to kill this team.  I said this in preseason.  I don’t mind losses when I see teams doing the right thing but are overmatched.  This offense is not the right one for a team having two stars who can get a shot closer to the basket whenever they want.  It’s plain lazy basketball.

Signed

I'd sign that as well, however all the analytics nerds ruined this forever.

Welcome to the new NBA...

Analytics isn't bad. It's just applied wrongly.

[fifteenth]

This place is more toxic now than it was through the tanking years. It's crazy that such a high percentage of you guys just blame the coach. I just read through your reasoning and I don't see a compelling argument against the coach in the whole thread, just a bunch of venting based on a belief that what you would have done would work better.

Nah. Give me this coach, this roster and give them some time to sort some things out and I think we'll see this thing play pretty well. We've seen glimpses if it and we've also seen that it's a work in progress.

I'll watch them work it out and enjoy the process rather than expect a new, young roster to have it all immediately figured out.

Losses are frustrating, especially to bad teams, but losses are part of the process.

I think Carlisle is working through a new roster and just needs time.

BUT I  cannot for the life of me understand his Luka rotations for the 4th qtr.  Luka went out hot at then end of the 3rd and sits until 5:53 left.  

He's been doing this for several games now....why sit him that long and then expect him to pick up right where he left off rolling into crunch time?

This is exactly my frustration. Had KP and Luka played the final 8-9 minutes and we lost, I would have been able to handle it much better. Leaving your 2 best players on the bench in a very needed game is crazy.

No good coaches play their best players the entire 4th quarter. They rest them to start the 4th and bring them in to close the game. We did the exact same thing in 2011.

[DrMav]

This place is more toxic now than it was through the tanking years. It's crazy that such a high percentage of you guys just blame the coach. I just read through your reasoning and I don't see a compelling argument against the coach in the whole thread, just a bunch of venting based on a belief that what you would have done would work better.

Nah. Give me this coach, this roster and give them some time to sort some things out and I think we'll see this thing play pretty well. We've seen glimpses if it and we've also seen that it's a work in progress.

I'll watch them work it out and enjoy the process rather than expect a new, young roster to have it all immediately figured out.

Losses are frustrating, especially to bad teams, but losses are part of the process.

Like I said earlier, I usually give RC the benefit of the doubt and I haven’t really cared about his rotations this year chalking it up to figuring out what works well with this cast over the early part of the season. 

Taking Luka out when he was going MVP to start the 4th though was just a mistake. I sat there looking for him unable to believe it as it came back from commercial. As a coach that has been very fluid with his lineups over this year and his tenure here, he was far too rigid in his Luka pattern tonight and it likely cost us.

[train0038]

Mavs weaknesses have not changed in recent years...

[BigDirk41]

This place is more toxic now than it was through the tanking years. It's crazy that such a high percentage of you guys just blame the coach. I just read through your reasoning and I don't see a compelling argument against the coach in the whole thread, just a bunch of venting based on a belief that what you would have done would work better.

Nah. Give me this coach, this roster and give them some time to sort some things out and I think we'll see this thing play pretty well. We've seen glimpses if it and we've also seen that it's a work in progress.

I'll watch them work it out and enjoy the process rather than expect a new, young roster to have it all immediately figured out.

Losses are frustrating, especially to bad teams, but losses are part of the process.

I think Carlisle is working through a new roster and just needs time.

BUT I  cannot for the life of me understand his Luka rotations for the 4th qtr.  Luka went out hot at then end of the 3rd and sits until 5:53 left.  

He's been doing this for several games now....why sit him that long and then expect him to pick up right where he left off rolling into crunch time?

This is exactly my frustration. Had KP and Luka played the final 8-9 minutes and we lost, I would have been able to handle it much better. Leaving your 2 best players on the bench in a very needed game is crazy.

No good coaches play their best players the entire 4th quarter. They rest them to start the 4th and bring them in to close the game. We did the exact same thing in 2011.

Nobody is expecting or saying Luka or KP should play all 12 minutes in the 4th. It seems most want them in around the 8 minute mark, mainly Luka. The best players in the NBA don't come in at the 5:53 mark in the 4th. Luka is a top 10 player now and should get the same treatment. Luka shouldn't ever play the entire 4th, but a 20 year old superstar can definitely play 8 minutes of the 4th.

[SportPsychMav]

Brad Townsend (@townbrad) Tweeted:

Mavs locker room still closed and no Carlisle yet. Much longer wait than usual. https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1195...57408?s=20

[Davevoid]

Fif. I said a chucking 3 pt offense is going to kill this team.  I said this in preseason.  I don’t mind losses when I see teams doing the right thing but are overmatched.  This offense is not the right one for a team having two stars who can get a shot closer to the basket whenever they want.  It’s plain lazy basketball.

Signed

I'd sign that as well, however all the analytics nerds ruined this forever.

Welcome to the new NBA...

Analytics isn't bad. It's just applied wrongly.

Yeah, well, please spread the word to all these coaches.

I'm with you, but pandora's box has been openend and there is no going back.

[Chrisjen]

This place is more toxic now than it was through the tanking years. It's crazy that such a high percentage of you guys just blame the coach. I just read through your reasoning and I don't see a compelling argument against the coach in the whole thread, just a bunch of venting based on a belief that what you would have done would work better.

Nah. Give me this coach, this roster and give them some time to sort some things out and I think we'll see this thing play pretty well. We've seen glimpses if it and we've also seen that it's a work in progress.

I'll watch them work it out and enjoy the process rather than expect a new, young roster to have it all immediately figured out.

Losses are frustrating, especially to bad teams, but losses are part of the process.

I think Carlisle is working through a new roster and just needs time.

BUT I  cannot for the life of me understand his Luka rotations for the 4th qtr.  Luka went out hot at then end of the 3rd and sits until 5:53 left.  

He's been doing this for several games now....why sit him that long and then expect him to pick up right where he left off rolling into crunch time?

This is exactly my frustration. Had KP and Luka played the final 8-9 minutes and we lost, I would have been able to handle it much better. Leaving your 2 best players on the bench in a very needed game is crazy.

No good coaches play their best players the entire 4th quarter. They rest them to start the 4th and bring them in to close the game. We did the exact same thing in 2011.

Old man Lebron played all 12 minutes last game for the Lakers and that wasn't the first time this season.  He averages about 10 minutes a game in  the 4th.


I don't think anyone expects 12 minutes but sitting over half the 4th?

[BigDirk41]

Brad Townsend (@townbrad) Tweeted:

Mavs locker room still closed and no Carlisle yet. Much longer wait than usual. https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1195...57408?s=20

Luka hates to lose and I'm sure KP is embarrassed to lose to NY twice in a week. This may be the moment they need to set RC straight that they are fed up. Superstars run the NBA, not the coaches. RC better understand that. If Luka wants a coach gone, he'll be gone. It's as simple as that.

---

Like or hate LeBron, that man gives his all playing every minute he can even at his age. He doesn't do load management. He's old school

[SleepingHero]

I love ya Fif, but criticizing the coach after 2 losses in the same week against the worst team in the NBA isn't toxic, its justified.

You're just saying that the losing justifies the criticism. But that's not good logic. The losing could be coaching,  it could be roster quality, it could be that this new, young team is a work in progress, or it could be something else.

I am not saying a loss on its own justifies the criticism. A lot goes into losing a basketball game. Rarely it is ever one reason why a team loses.

However, there are reasons that carry more weight than others. I'm criticizing the coach because I felt his mistakes are the big ones as to why the Mavs consistently look off since 11/3/2019.  The Mavs have lost 9 of their 11 first quarters this year. They rank 25th in FG% for the first quarter. I believe the lack of any consistent rotation is a big reason for that. I also think that the offense itself doesn't fit our personnel. The Mavs rely too much on the 3.  They shoot the 4th most 3's per game in the NBA, yet have the 18th worst 3pt%.

And looking at the game, the kind of shots that they're taking it make sense as to why its so low. SO many of those 3's are early in the shot clock 3's that are contested and no one touches the ball (Luka and THJ are the biggest offenders). A good coach would have nipped that in the bud, but it's been a constant theme. Porzingis has looked rusty, but Carlisle has also failed to integrate him in any meaningful way in the offense. He's being used as a glorified spot up shooter. Luka runs the most PnR with Powell or Kleber, NOT KP. The Luka/KP PnR is something everyone was expecting coming into this season, yet we've barely seen it all year.

Weird rotations, such as benching Curry after his hot start against Orlando then bringing him back to shoot the game tying free throws after resting him for 2 hours is odd. Sitting Luka until 5 minutes left in the 4th, after he went off for 14 straight points in 90 seconds is odd. And those are the most egregious subs. Thats not even accounting the fact that Luka and KP only had a total of 4 shot attempts in the entire 4th quarter. Its up to the coach to make sure the team's best players gets the shots. 

I'm just scratching the surface with Carlisle's issues so far this season, I haven't even mentioned the defense, end of game management (Luka going for a quick 2 with no timeouts and 2 fouls needed for the bonus, I mean that's on Carlisle for either telling Luka to do that or failing to let his players know of the situation), or overall effort of this team. Again, I have hope that Carlisle can turn it around, and I believe he has the talent to do so. But he rightly deserves criticism for the performance he's orchestrated so far. Just as he rightly deserved praise for his 2014 series against the Spurs and 2011 championship. It goes both ways.

[DrMav]

This place is more toxic now than it was through the tanking years. It's crazy that such a high percentage of you guys just blame the coach. I just read through your reasoning and I don't see a compelling argument against the coach in the whole thread, just a bunch of venting based on a belief that what you would have done would work better.

Nah. Give me this coach, this roster and give them some time to sort some things out and I think we'll see this thing play pretty well. We've seen glimpses if it and we've also seen that it's a work in progress.

I'll watch them work it out and enjoy the process rather than expect a new, young roster to have it all immediately figured out.

Losses are frustrating, especially to bad teams, but losses are part of the process.

I think Carlisle is working through a new roster and just needs time.

BUT I  cannot for the life of me understand his Luka rotations for the 4th qtr.  Luka went out hot at then end of the 3rd and sits until 5:53 left.  

He's been doing this for several games now....why sit him that long and then expect him to pick up right where he left off rolling into crunch time?

This is exactly my frustration. Had KP and Luka played the final 8-9 minutes and we lost, I would have been able to handle it much better. Leaving your 2 best players on the bench in a very needed game is crazy.

No good coaches play their best players the entire 4th quarter. They rest them to start the 4th and bring them in to close the game. We did the exact same thing in 2011.

1) Flow of the game matters. Luka did nothing almost all of the 3rd til the final 3:30 where he exploded. Considering leaving him in to start the 4th is at least warranted if not expected.

2) If Luka is going to be taken out, gotta have a better sense of when to get him back in. He’s 20 years old on 2 days rest, not Dirk in his 30s, the guy can stand to play 39 minutes rather than 36 on a night you need him.

[Mavs2019]

For eight years this front office have lived in the shadows of the NBA with zero media attention or responsibility for their work, but now with Luka already being recognized as a top 10 player it´s finally happening. We are the Cavericks now and the question will be: Why can´t they get LeLuka some help. Get LeLuka some help.

Now all their Rondo/Noel trades subsequent post trade actions and draft day shenangians will be viewed differently. It doesn´t matter where you want to lay the blame, but the cushy times for Cuban, Nelson and Carlisle are over.

[SportPsychMav]

I love ya Fif, but criticizing the coach after 2 losses in the same week against the worst team in the NBA isn't toxic, its justified.

You're just saying that the losing justifies the criticism. But that's not good logic. The losing could be coaching,  it could be roster quality, it could be that this new, young team is a work in progress, or it could be something else.

I am not saying a loss on its own justifies the criticism. A lot goes into losing a basketball game. Rarely it is ever one reason why a team loses.

However, there are reasons that carry more weight than others. I'm criticizing the coach because I felt his mistakes are the big ones as to why the Mavs consistently look off since 11/3/2019.  The Mavs have lost 9 of their 11 first quarters this year. They rank 25th in FG% for the first quarter. I believe the lack of any consistent rotation is a big reason for that. I also think that the offense itself doesn't fit our personnel. The Mavs rely too much on the 3.  They shoot the 4th most 3's per game in the NBA, yet have the 18th worst 3pt%.

And looking at the game, the kind of shots that they're taking it make sense as to why its so low. SO many of those 3's are early in the shot clock 3's that are contested and no one touches the ball (Luka and THJ are the biggest offenders). A good coach would have nipped that in the bud, but it's been a constant theme. Porzingis has looked rusty, but Carlisle has also failed to integrate him in any meaningful way in the offense. He's being used as a glorified spot up shooter. Luka runs the most PnR with Powell or Kleber, NOT KP. The Luka/KP PnR is something everyone was expecting coming into this season, yet we've barely seen it all year.

Weird rotations, such as benching Curry after his hot start against Orlando then bringing him back to shoot the game tying free throws after resting him for 2 hours is odd. Sitting Luka until 5 minutes left in the 4th, after he went off for 14 straight points in 90 seconds is odd. And those are the most egregious subs. Thats not even accounting the fact that Luka and KP only had a total of 4 shot attempts in the entire 4th quarter. Its up to the coach to make sure the team's best players gets the shots. 

I'm just scratching the surface with Carlisle's issues so far this season, I haven't even mentioned the defense, end of game management (Luka going for a quick 2 with no timeouts and 2 fouls needed for the bonus, I mean that's on Carlisle for either telling Luka to do that or failing to let his players know of the situation), or overall effort of this team. Again, I have hope that Carlisle can turn it around, and I believe he has the talent to do so. But he rightly deserves criticism for the performance he's orchestrated so far. Just as he rightly deserved praise for his 2014 series against the Spurs and 2011 championship. It goes both ways.

@"Kammrath" great, co-signed

[fifteenth]

This place is more toxic now than it was through the tanking years. It's crazy that such a high percentage of you guys just blame the coach. I just read through your reasoning and I don't see a compelling argument against the coach in the whole thread, just a bunch of venting based on a belief that what you would have done would work better.

Nah. Give me this coach, this roster and give them some time to sort some things out and I think we'll see this thing play pretty well. We've seen glimpses if it and we've also seen that it's a work in progress.

I'll watch them work it out and enjoy the process rather than expect a new, young roster to have it all immediately figured out.

Losses are frustrating, especially to bad teams, but losses are part of the process.

Uh huh.  Pretty much the same defense of RC we've been hearing for years now.  The Mavs have not played like a well coached team in years.  The championship was in 2011.  That is eight years ago.  IMO, it's just time for a change.

There is really no comparison between this year and the tanking years. Before last year we knew the roster was bad. Last year there was a little hope, and I suggested patience at the beginning, but after about a third to half of the season it became clear that we had vets playing for themselves, a discontented DSJ, and HB who failed in important games. I didn't suggest patience after that. Nah, this season is different. And it just makes sense to recognize that a new, young roster is a work in progress.

[mtrot]

Brad Townsend (@townbrad) Tweeted:

Mavs locker room still closed and no Carlisle yet. Much longer wait than usual. https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1195...57408?s=20

Good.  Maybe there is some sort of attitude adjustment going on.

[Davevoid]

Plus if you read on other basketball boards, most non Mavs fans question these things as well.

It's not fanboy outrage.

"Other message boards think this" isn't much of an argument. Most of the internet is mindless, insta-take venting. The world doesn't have the patience these days to endure the hard work involved in team building.

This, so much this.

Just a couple of weeks ago, the Mavs beat the Nuggets at their high castle by having 10 freaking players scoring in double figures. Carlisle was universally lauded as a wizard and we were supposedly ultra deep.

Now, two disappointing losses later, he should be fired and half of the roster put on waivers...

C'mon guys.

[SleepingHero]

Plus if you read on other basketball boards, most non Mavs fans question these things as well.

It's not fanboy outrage.

"Other message boards think this" isn't much of an argument. Most of the internet is mindless, insta-take venting. The world doesn't have the patience these days to endure the hard work involved in team building.

This, so much this.

Just a couple of weeks ago, the Mavs beat the Nuggets at their high castle by having 10 freaking players scoring in double figures. Carlisle was universally lauded as a wizard and we were supposedly ultra deep.

Now, two disappointing losses later, he should be fired and half of the roster put on waivers...

C'mon guys.

A couple of weeks ago the Mavs were 3-1 coming off an incredible team win against the Nuggets. They are since 3-4, with 5 of those 6 games coming against the bottom barrel of the NBA and they've looked awful in every game. Cavs and Memphis were extremely close, Mavs should've lost against Orlando, the Knicks beat up the Mavs every which way twice! Boston controlled the entire game until the Mavs fought back hard in the 4th. Then Kemba came in and hit 3 straight 3's when THJ was guarding him.

Things move fast in the NBA, the Mavs looked good their first 5 games. They've since looked terrible and deserve criticism.

[SportPsychMav]

This place is more toxic now than it was through the tanking years. It's crazy that such a high percentage of you guys just blame the coach. I just read through your reasoning and I don't see a compelling argument against the coach in the whole thread, just a bunch of venting based on a belief that what you would have done would work better.

Nah. Give me this coach, this roster and give them some time to sort some things out and I think we'll see this thing play pretty well. We've seen glimpses if it and we've also seen that it's a work in progress.

I'll watch them work it out and enjoy the process rather than expect a new, young roster to have it all immediately figured out.

Losses are frustrating, especially to bad teams, but losses are part of the process.

Uh huh.  Pretty much the same defense of RC we've been hearing for years now.  The Mavs have not played like a well coached team in years.  The championship was in 2011.  That is eight years ago.  IMO, it's just time for a change.

There is really no comparison between this year and the tanking years. Before last year we knew the roster was bad. Last year their was a little hope, and I suggested patience at the beginning, but after about a third to half of the season it became clear that we had vets playing for themselves, a discontented DSJ, and HB who failed in important games. I didn't suggest patience after that. Nah, this season is different. And it just makes sense to recognize that a new, young roster is a work in progress.

Nobody here says that Carlisle is doing only bad things, nobody here is refusing to acknowledge that some things take time. 

The most often criticized aspects mentioned here aren't closely related to things that are fixed with just time.

When every player does it, it is systematic. It's not a player or developmental issue alone.