2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[Jommybone]

Thanks for the F- for Oubre.  I'll try to bring him up more as it has seemed to unite the board and unity is kind of a thing now.

Love it!!! Not exactly the Uber Man, this oubre man, is he?

[Kammrath]

Here's a conundrum given your known likes and dislikes.  Say we spent our cap space well.  Fill in whatever guard/wing you are hoping we add next to Luka.  We did it for $22mm and still have $12mm after JRich opted out and we declined to TO on WCS.  GS wants to deal for KP, but they are only offering Wiseman and S&T Oubre.  KOJr. has to make $16mm combined with Wiseman at $9mm to trade match KP, but that adds $6mm to cap room.  No picks, no changes to the deal of any kind.  Holmes hasn't signed anywhere and is willing to come for our $18mm in remaining cap space.

So, your offseason is Conley (my pick, but you could pick someone else), Holmes, Wiseman and Oubre or you say no to GS and get Conley and whatever $12mm will buy and still have KP.  What say ye?

100% IN. 

I think Conley is SOLID (he scares me for age and durability). Look, I think Conley could end up being a HOMERUN of a signing, but I think there is only a 10% chance that it pans out that way. I think there is a 20% chance he ends up as a "bust" signing. That scares me.

I LOVE Holmes. Y'all know that an elite pick and roll partner for Luka is my number one desire above all else.

I LOVE the flyer on developing Wiseman BEHIND Holmes. 

I am willing to swallow the Oubre pill to get there.

[Kammrath]

I don't consider KP a negative asset

But I think he would be that if Wiggins is literally the only return you can get. And if his value is that low, it may not recover. Risking a lost season with Luka is too risky. Which is why I say....

[cjeter24]

- I don’t want the highest % of the cap going to a guy who can’t play against small lineups. Had this debate before but again wouldn’t want to be paying Gobert his current contract either.

- I don’t want the highest % of the cap going to a guy can be “simply game planned out” on offense. Luka needed help. He wanted to have someone else help. The idea that KP was capable to do more and just not allowed to by the game plan is ridiculous.

- Wirh KP’s previous injury history, if he suffer one more season ending knee injury you will not be able to trade him period. His frame, history of guys his size are scary enough. Since we will be operating over the cap for the foreseeable future, it’s imperative that we not waste his 30+ salary slot. Have to either trade for usable players who salary match or open up the space this off-season and sign FA.

Just my opinion. The answers to KP questions on Thursday at the press conference will be telling.

Just to be clear the clippers series I referenced at first was the Bubble series. 
I didn't say Mavs neccesarily game planned him out. 
LAC said we are going to guard you small and push you out to the perimeter. Mavs let it happen and basically used him as a spot up decoy. It's a real detriment to KP's offensive versality for sure. And that's why he needs to be a 3rd piece. 

And that's fine if you don't want a small ball lineup. But the other 6 West playoff teams all had a big starting center. It's a bit of a switch from a few years ago. 

Lastly I feel like the KP knee narrative is waaaaaay overblown. ACL injury was a freak injury due to an awkward landing. We thought Giannis had the same thing happen just a week or so ago. And we've seen it happen to other guys. And meniscus injuries are super common and plenty of stars have had them and have had no issue coming back from them. The biggest risk for meniscus injuries is always later in the career if the knee continues to wear down. Not really an issue in the now. I'm way more concerned that he's had a long history of a bunch of minor injuries throughout his career. Constant nagging things. That stuff wears you down over time. 

If the Mavs are going to be operating over the cap for the foreseeable future, why does what KP make matter? taking his money away doesn't mean you get that much cap space. You aren't going to be able to just dump him into nothing more than likely so it's future cap space... And we'll be over the cap with your line of logic. 

We've seen repeatedly no contract is untradable. If the worst you suggest happens, Mavs have ways to get off the contract. They'll have their 1st in 2022 for one. There's only going to be 2 years left on the deal after this year if he has a major injury this year. If he has it in the future, it's a short term contract issue. Honestly I think the fear you and others express here is way too much.

[cjeter24]

100% IN. 

I think Conley is SOLID (he scares me for age and durability). Look, I think Conley could end up being a HOMERUN of a signing, but I think there is only a 10% chance that it pans out that way. I think there is a 20% chance he ends up as a "bust" signing. That scares me.

I LOVE Holmes. Y'all know that an elite pick and roll partner for Luka is my number one desire above all else.

I LOVE the flyer on developing Wiseman BEHIND Holmes. 

I am willing to swallow the Oubre pill to get there.

It just depends on the price of Oubre for me. And length. I'll give him a one year expensive deal if other options don't work out. I'll sign him to a multi year deal on the MLE if that's his market. 

He has his issues but if you buy into my idea that Mavs are going to be running on offense this year with Kidd, a guy like Oubre is going to be an underrated add offensively with his athleticism. 

He's also still only 25... Still has some time to turn it around.

That being said he's definitely not my first choice as a target.

[cow]

But I think he would be that if Wiggins is literally the only return you can get. And if his value is that low, it may not recover. Risking a lost season with Luka is too risky. Which is why I say....

Wiggins gives you the same lost seasons.

[cjeter24]

But I think he would be that if Wiggins is literally the only return you can get. And if his value is that low, it may not recover. Risking a lost season with Luka is too risky. Which is why I say....

I think the more risky option with Luka is going all in and not being good enough and locking yourself into a mediocre roster. And then the star wanting out.
You saw it happen with AD and Pels. You saw it happen with the Thunder (Westbrook and George). Currently seems to be happening with Celtics as well and possibly Utah. Stars haven't gotten fed up yet because there's still time there.. I'm sure there are others over the last decade or so too. You could argue Clips may be heading this way too. If not for their dumpster diving signings of Batum and Jackson.... They'd be a first round exit the last few years. And both may be gone with no way to replace them.

And because the Mavs lack many assets atm, it's going to be harder for them to maneuver. They don't even have that 2nd star like most of these other teams had.

[Jommybone]

I’m fine with Oubre for matching purposes, as long as he is headed to some third team that wants him instead of here.

[Scott41theMavs]

The solitary good thing about KP for Wiggins would be a year less of albatross salary. You could trade Wiggins as an expirer next summer. 

To me, if Wiggins is the best deal you can get right now, that means your negotiators can't negotiate their way out of a paper bag, and you hired the wrong negotiators. Gimme a break. There are 28 other teams out there. Someone has something less vomitorious.

[Jommybone]

Every time I read a trade involving Hayward and KP I think, how much does Indy want their hometown hero back, and what would we have to add to get the perfect fits (Brogdon/Turner) in return? KP to the Hornets, GH back home in Indiana, and two sharpshooting defenders joining LD77. I’d probably give Carlisle the pick of the non-Luka litter to make that happen.

[Scott41theMavs]

I’m fine with Oubre for matching purposes, as long as he is headed to some third team that wants him instead of here.

So, in other words, no.

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Every time I read a trade involving Hayward and KP I think, how much does Indy want their hometown hero back, and what would we have to add to get the perfect fits (Brogdon/Turner) in return? KP to the Hornets, GH back home in Indiana, and two sharpshooting defenders joining LD77. I’d probably give Carlisle the pick of the non-Luka litter to make that happen.

Getting rid of KP and getting back Brogdon *and* Turner? And we still have cap room? They can have Brunson and even DFS for that. Edit: just put KP to Charlotte, Hayward, Brunson, and DFS to Indiana, and Brogdon and Turner to the Mavs in the ESPN trade machine. It works.

https://media.giphy.com/media/mGDvFv4tWx.../giphy.gif

[cow]

So, in other words, no.

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Getting rid of KP and getting back Brogdon *and* Turner? And we still have cap room? They can have Brunson and even DFS for that. Edit: just put KP to Charlotte, Hayward, Brunson, and DFS to Indiana, and Brogdon and Turner to the Mavs in the ESPN trade machine. It works.

https://media.giphy.com/media/mGDvFv4tWx.../giphy.gif

The problem with these three team deals is that if I'm Charlotte, I'd rather have Turner and Brogdon than KP so why would I involve Dallas?

[ClutchDirk]

https://twitter.com/All_Things_Mavs/stat...7921773570

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[cow]

https://twitter.com/All_Things_Mavs/stat...7921773570

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=626JmEOZkvI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsf-Fb2DXnU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFJfpnRze2k

[Kammrath]

Franks is 6'7"....7'3" wingspan.

[Chicagojk]

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Thanks. I will never fault the Mavs for looking under every stone to find talent.   Most will not stick, but that is not the point.

He looks to have a beautiful stroke.  Put up pretty solid numbers his last two years in college and looks to play pretty well in G-league.   Solid rebound numbers, but nothing great.    

These are the types of players Dallas needs to constantly look at.   Long shot to ever make the roster, but intriguing.

[VintagePejav2]

Asked again, HV: Kawhi then quickly onto Conley + Oubre, pipedream scenario of Kawhi + Conley but LA would have to take back KP in SnT

[cow]

Thanks. I will never fault the Mavs for looking under every stone to find talent.   Most will not stick, but that is not the point.

He looks to have a beautiful stroke.  Put up pretty solid numbers his last two years in college and looks to play pretty well in G-league.   Solid rebound numbers, but nothing great.    

These are the types of players Dallas needs to constantly look at.   Long shot to ever make the roster, but intriguing.

Tell @"hakeemfan" not to kill me, but his posture is bit weird to me.  Maybe it's his massive arm and leg length.  All his movements with and without the ball are very tall.   His defensive shuffles do remind me of how Rodman used to move while guarding the paint.

[KillerLeft]

We've seen repeatedly no contract is untradable.

People say this often, and I might be really stupid, but I feel like the exact opposite is proven true almost every year.

They have been trying to trade Kevin love for years. Look at the extent every team goes through just to unload Russell Westbrook. There are other examples, and I suppose it depends on what you mean by “untradable.”

Judging by the mess the Mavs are in right now with Porzingis, I’d say it’s at least much easier to build a team by avoiding overpaid, underperforming players. Sure, you can always move them, but not often in a way that makes you better.

[cow]

People say this often, and I might be really stupid, but I feel like the exact opposite is proven true almost every year.

They have been trying to trade Kevin love for years. Look at the extent every team goes through just to unload Russell Westbrook. There are other examples, and I suppose it depends on what you mean by “untradable.”

Judging by the mess the Mavs are in right now with Porzingis, I’d say it’s at least much easier to build a team by avoiding overpaid, underperforming players. Sure, you can always move them, but not often in a way that makes you better.

The Cavs could probably trade Love, but they have no real incentive to unless they are trying to avoid the luxury tax which I believe they are below anyway.  They are a bad team so they'd be better off not trading future assets to get off of Love's contract which would certainly be necessary to accomplish that task.  There was a recent report that they want to move up in the draft.  If they accomplish that, it will be due in part thanks to hanging onto the corpse of Kevin Love and his terrible contract.