2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[KillerLeft]

Carlisle is no longer Mavs coach, which means contract was terminated.

I think that's probably the case, because I feel like Cuban will want to treat him as well as possible, given the chaos of the past week. That would buy quite a bit of silence from Carlisle, I bet. I think it's in Cuban's interest for Carlisle to leave as quietly as possible. 

But, the fact that Carlisle quit with years left on his deal, and was NOT fired, which both parties went out of their way to point out? I'm no expert on basic contracts, even, but I don't blame people for asking questions about this. 

At the end of the conversation though, I think I reach the same conclusion you did.

[cow]

Not sure why ppl hate Wiggins so much, you are not counting on him to be a top guy. At any rate KP's value is so bad GSW might need even trade you Wiggins straight up for KP.

I only hate him because I've watched him play.  He's not good at, what's that thing again?   ...basketball.

[KillerLeft]

My opinion about Wiggins:

I do think GS got more out of him than expected, and there were signs of improvement. But, ultimately, he's pretty available, right? So, it's not like they're dying to keep building around him. 

And, most importantly, this situation in Dallas is not likely to be as solid and organized as the GS situation with Kerr, Curry and Green, etc. Especially next year, since everyone in the building will be starting from scratch, finding their way. The entire identity of the organization will be up in the air, in a state of transition. Maybe not the best time to have a guy like Wiggins around.

[StepBackJay]

I only hate him because I've watched him play.  He's not good at, what's that thing again?   ...basketball.

I haven't watched him a ton but he seems to do well out there. His stats look good to me, where's the beef?

[Scott41theMavs]

I haven't watched him a ton but he seems to do well out there. His stats look good to me, where's the beef?

Can't speak for others who have likely watched a lot more non-Mavs NBA games than I have, but the consistent knock on him has always been BBIQ. No BB idiots with Luka, please.

[StepBackJay]

My opinion about Wiggins:

I do think GS got more out of him than expected, and there were signs of improvement. But, ultimately, he's pretty available, right? So, it's not like they're dying to keep building around him. 

And, most importantly, this situation in Dallas is not likely to be as solid and organized as the GS situation with Kerr, Curry and Green, etc. Especially next year, since everyone in the building will be starting from scratch, finding their way. The entire identity of the organization will be up in the air, in a state of transition. Maybe not the best time to have a guy like Wiggins around.

I don't think it will be as bad as you think especially if Mosley is the guy. Its hard to say how much roster turnover but we know Luka will still be there and he runs the show. I don't see Wiggins as a guy that's hard to integrate. Trying to "fix" KP is a bigger challenge in my opinion.

[KillerLeft]

I don't think it will be as bad as you think especially if Mosley is the guy.

I think who gets the coaching job, though important, is pretty far down the list of crucial decisions that are about to be made.

[StepBackJay]

Can't speak for others who have likely watched a lot more non-Mavs NBA games than I have, but the consistent knock on him has always been BBIQ. No BB idiots with Luka, please.

Okay but pretty sure things turned around in GSW, maybe bc he was finally on a good team. I don't think he gets the stats he gets unless he has some BBIQ going on in there. He'd probably be our 2nd best player the day he got here before any other moves were made. GSW played him at PF, I like the switchability with him and DFS. He also is probably our best defender day 1.

Lineup would be: Luka, THJ, DFS, Wiggins, [some center TBD]. I like it better than what we have now with KP honestly.

[cow]

Okay but pretty sure things turned around in GSW, maybe bc he was finally on a good team. I don't think he gets the stats he gets unless he has some BBIQ going on in there. He'd probably be our 2nd best player the day he got here before any other moves were made. GSW played him at PF, I like the switchability with him and DFS. He also is probably our best defender day 1.

Lineup would be: Luka, THJ, DFS, Wiggins, [some center TBD]. I like it better than what we have now with KP honestly.

And how have teams that have featured Andrew Wiggins as their second best player fared?

[Kammrath]

Something I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is how blank the slate might be for a new GM.  When someone proposes a Brunson trade, subconsciously I think to my self "no, that's Donnie's guy.  He's friends with his dad".  No, actually he's a backup PG over which the team has no control after next season.  I can play a similar mental exercise with most of the fan favorites.  DFS and Maxi aren't the hidden gem success stories unearthed by our GM.  They are just guys.  Maybe they fit the new GM's vision.  Maybe they don't.  THJ can be evaluated at face value and not based at all on family relationships or any other off-court factor.

The history with certain agents may or may not be gone depending on whether the relationship was more about Donnie or more about Cuban.  The rookies aren't the new GM's "guys" (and apparently weren't the old GM's guys either...too soon?) and the new GM didn't make the Porzingis trade.  People often say "no one is untouchable except Luka and _________" and then proceed to fill in their favorite player or some player they perceive the franchise won't trade because of X.  There is no X any more.  We can't even assume that our players will continue to perform in the same way as they have in the past because "Carlisle knows how to use Powell or doesn't know how to use _____".  It really is a totally blank slate...especially if the new GM is an outsider.  Look what just happened in Boston.  You can probably still smell Ainge's cologne in his office and Stevens has already erased one of his "mistakes".   Would an outsider GM be any more loyal to the current roster than the guy who got promoted from within?

I am SO excited about this. We as fans haven't had real "new blood" in regard to approach and philosophy in basically decades. These are incredibly exciting times IMO.

[Branduil]

doh. didn't think of it at that angle.

That really sucks for Jackson. He has to go to a bad team for more money or take the MLE... Sucks to suck.

Or he can play with Luka AND get his money.


I suppose the Knicks would also be an obvious landing place for him.

[KillerLeft]

I am SO excited about this. We as fans haven't had real "new blood" in regard to approach and philosophy in basically decades. These are incredibly exciting times IMO.

Man, I'm trying so hard to be excited. 

Schrödinger's cat comes to mind.

[Omega_Supreme]

I am SO excited about this. We as fans haven't had real "new blood" in regard to approach and philosophy in basically decades. These are incredibly exciting times IMO.

I have read your post over and over with hopes that it will raise my confidence level. This is the first time I have posted on the board since then news. I have simply been in shock but also sad that it had to end this way. I am not as confident in Mark fixing this as others are and I am typically one of the more optimistic guys in terms of outlook minus all things KP. 

My concern is that Cuban sucks at basketball decisions and since he has been owner he has made bad decision after bad decision. His ownership and leadership failed culturally with the harassment claims and it failed operationally in terms of basketball decision making. Both of those were things controlled and managed by Cuban. 

My hope is that he puts in a GM that can truly run an organization and allow him to focus on managing his crypto portfolio and improving his wealth. I hope that he is smart enough to realize he needs to take his hands out of the cookie jar. 

I will continue to thin back to your post in hopes that it gives me optimism.

[Kammrath]

My concern is that Cuban sucks at basketball decisions and since he has been owner he has made bad decision after bad decision.

Two of the main guys that were in his ear during those failed decisions were Donnie and RC and they are now long gone. Let's see where this goes, it might be possible that Cuban isn't as much of the problem as we might fear. Again, we don't know, but I for one will choose optimism until the evidence points me elsewhere!

[RasheedsBigWhiteSpot]

I feel like the beta test for a potential GM is "What would your second move be (behind re-signing Luka)?"  Anyone that doesn't say their second move would be trying to acquire a 2023 FRP isn't seeing this team's main weakness at improving.  While some here think KP's deal is hamstringing the franchise, I don't.  Neither are the contracts of Powell, Burke, etc.  If the team could unlock all their picks again, they can once again be proactive players.

So if a team comes to you and offers you an unprotected 2023 FRP for DFS or Brunson or Maxi or a somewhat worse contract for an opted-in Richardson, do you take it just so you can saddle up if Beal, Lavine come available at next year's TDL?

Basically, how much are you willing to give up simply to have all your draft pick ammunition back?

[omahen]

So if a team comes to you and offers you an unprotected 2023 FRP for DFS or Brunson or Maxi or a somewhat worse contract for an opted-in Richardson, do you take it just so you can saddle up if Beal, Lavine come available at next year's TDL?

No one would offer an unprotected FRP for any of those guys or all of them combined, no matter how bad salaries are you taking back. Unprotected picks are used for stars only. What we could perhaps hope for would be a trade with NY for our protected pick back.

[RasheedsBigWhiteSpot]

No one would offer an unprotected FRP for any of those guys or all of them combined, no matter how bad salaries are you taking back. Unprotected picks are used for stars only. What we could perhaps hope for would be a trade with NY for our protected pick back.

Completely disagree.  Teams on the back end of pick swaps who are going for it now would absolutely entertain a deal for a 3-D type player (see Milwaukee trading for 97 year old PJ Tucker).  The Bucks gave up their unprotected 2023.  And there are other examples.

[omahen]

Completely disagree.  Teams on the back end of pick swaps who are going for it now would absolutely entertain a deal for a 3-D type player (see Milwaukee trading for 97 year old PJ Tucker).

Nope, it was a pick swap, not unprotected pick for Tucker. Milwaukee swapped 2023 pick for their own 2022 pick that Houston owned.

[RasheedsBigWhiteSpot]

Nope, it was a pick swap, not unprotected pick for Tucker. Milwaukee swapped 2023 pick for their own 2022 pick that Houston owned.

Yes, but the 2023 pick the Bucks relinquished was an unprotected FRP in a trade for a non-superstar (your standard).  The pick that came back to the Bucks was their own 2022 in which there were a number of protections (in other words, not valuable).  

So again, the Bucks dealt an unprotected FRP in a deal for a non-superstar.  So if PJ and a combo of middling assets can convince a team to let go of an unprotected 1st (albeit, an expected late 1st), then I think some combo of DFS, Brunson, Maxi, contract relief is far from unreasonable.

[omahen]

Yes, but the 2023 pick the Bucks relinquished was an unprotected FRP in a trade for a non-superstar (your standard).  The pick that came back to the Bucks was their own 2022 in which there were a number of protections (in other words, not valuable).  

Nope, the 2022 was also unprotected.