The Athletic: Inside the Mavericks front office, Mark Cuban’s shadow GM…

[KillerLeft]

who he again??

Again, all of this is from Fish, so you need to decide for yourself how much you believe it, but...

Ronzone was the Mavs' international guy, apparently. At one time not THAT long ago, Donnie Nelson was given credit around the league for being the very best at finding gems from Europe (finding Dirk will do that, I guess), but Fish has always told us that Ronzone was the real man behind all of that. He apparently spends most of his time over there scouting the best prospects. He gets to know them and develops relationships with their families years before they're even draft eligible. This is very likely at least part of the reason Luka wanted to come here.

[Scott41theMavs]

Again, all of this is from Fish, so you need to decide for yourself how much you believe it, but...

Ronzone was the Mavs' international guy, apparently. At one time not THAT long ago, Donnie Nelson was given credit around the league for being the very best at finding gems from Europe (finding Dirk will do that, I guess), but Fish has always told us that Ronzone was the real man behind all of that. He apparently spends most of his time over there scouting the best prospects. He gets to know them and develops relationships with their families years before they're even draft eligible. This is very likely at least part of the reason Luka wanted to come here.

It may have been his very loss that made Donnie expendable in Cuban's eyes.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Again, all of this is from Fish, so you need to decide for yourself how much you believe it, but...

Ronzone was the Mavs' international guy, apparently. At one time not THAT long ago, Donnie Nelson was given credit around the league for being the very best at finding gems from Europe (finding Dirk will do that, I guess), but Fish has always told us that Ronzone was the real man behind all of that. He apparently spends most of his time over there scouting the best prospects. He gets to know them and develops relationships with their families years before they're even draft eligible. This is very likely at least part of the reason Luka wanted to come here.

I've heard kinda similar things from other people in the Dallas media market.    The loss of Ronzone didn't really move the needle much in Mavs Fan world, but I think it was a pretty big deal.

[mavsluvr]

https://theathletic.com/2657406/2021/06/...ka-doncic/


New article by Cato and Sam.

Doesn't add a lot more. Says that Donnie took his objections to Bob's encroachment into other people's lanes to Cuban. Also that a "source close to the situation" said that, despite the language that Donnie and the team mutually agreed to part ways, Donnie was in fact fired.

As noted in the original article, other teams were getting confused when Nelson would tell them one thing, and Bob would have a different story. Cuban defended the practice, saying that people up and down the organization have multiple conversations with other teams, and that's standard practice. The article maintains that the other teams did not view the situation as normal.

The article adds that Bob never angled for getting Donnie's job as President of Basketball Operations, which is not a role that played to his strengths. However, the perception inside and outside the organization was that Bob was gaining power at Donnie's expense.

It is uncertain whether Bob will continue at the team. But if he does, his role is expected to continue unchanged.

[Kammrath]

Ronzone was the real man behind all of that

I mean could any one of you honestly with a straight face say you think Donnie Nelson is some sort of basketball genius who understands the game and how players skills fit into it better than most?

I say "ah hell no" to that. Every time he would talk I heard an nice, amicable guy who actually knows VERY LITTLE about basketball. I love Donnie and he did a lot for the Mavs, but the dude doesn't really have a good feel for basketball IMO.

[Chicagojk]

https://theathletic.com/2657406/2021/06/...ka-doncic/


New article by Cato and Sam.

Doesn't add a lot more. Says that Donnie took his objections to Bob's encroachment into other people's lanes to Cuban. Also that a "source close to the situation" said that, despite the language that Donnie and the team mutually agreed to part ways, Donnie was in fact fired.

What a mess:

As one rival team executive shared Wednesday, there were times when talking to the Mavericks about trade possibilities meant inevitable confusion. Nelson would paint one picture, so to speak, discussing the possible pieces and players involved in an attempt to get a deal done. But Voulgaris, who this rival executive said had talked to his team simultaneously about a particular deal, would tell a different story. And because Voulgaris was widely known to have a direct line to Cuban, this dynamic was seen by Nelson as damaging to his credibility. When asked over the phone about this assertion on Wednesday, Cuban refuted the idea that Voulgaris had negatively impacted the process.

[ItsGoTime]

I mean could any one of you honestly with a straight face say you think Donnie Nelson is some sort of basketball genius who understands the game and how players skills fit into it better than most?

I say "ah hell no" to that. Every time he would talk I heard an nice, amicable guy who actually knows VERY LITTLE about basketball. I love Donnie and he did a lot for the Mavs, but the dude doesn't really have a good feel for basketball IMO.

That’s not luke warm! Piggybacking onto this, I have wanted Donnie out for at least 15 years. Can’t recall the moment when I came to the realization that he is not the guy, but it was before the championship.

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What a mess:

As one rival team executive shared Wednesday, there were times when talking to the Mavericks about trade possibilities meant inevitable confusion. Nelson would paint one picture, so to speak, discussing the possible pieces and players involved in an attempt to get a deal done. But Voulgaris, who this rival executive said had talked to his team simultaneously about a particular deal, would tell a different story. And because Voulgaris was widely known to have a direct line to Cuban, this dynamic was seen by Nelson as damaging to his credibility. When asked over the phone about this assertion on Wednesday, Cuban refuted the idea that Voulgaris had negatively impacted the process.

Any doubt the rival exec is in the Miami FO?

[DallasBasketball]

What a mess:

As one rival team executive shared Wednesday, there were times when talking to the Mavericks about trade possibilities meant inevitable confusion. Nelson would paint one picture, so to speak, discussing the possible pieces and players involved in an attempt to get a deal done. But Voulgaris, who this rival executive said had talked to his team simultaneously about a particular deal, would tell a different story. And because Voulgaris was widely known to have a direct line to Cuban, this dynamic was seen by Nelson as damaging to his credibility. When asked over the phone about this assertion on Wednesday, Cuban refuted the idea that Voulgaris had negatively impacted the process.

Proof is in the pudding. We can assume with near certainty this is what happened with Miami. Cuban has bias here and must deny because he holds Vulgar Bob in high regard and wants him around, or he is biased and may not have anyone around he wants to listen to that could convince him otherwise. Results and reports show his denial of these circumstances is not in line with the truth.

[fifteenth]

I say "ah hell no" to that. Every time he would talk I heard an nice, amicable guy who actually knows VERY LITTLE about basketball.

OK, pal. You're awesome my friend, but your Donnie opinions just jumped the shark if you think Donnie knows very little about basketall. 

Also, if you're doing research about how much Donnie knows, you shouldn't rest the weight of your opinion on what Donnie says to the media. 

Whatever the case, I agee that it's time to move on. He's had too many misses recently. The team is at a critical moment. I completely buy what your selling about Ujiri. I don't like the "business guy who can let The Bob be the real GM idea". But I fear that Mark may go that direction.

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What a mess:

As one rival team executive shared Wednesday, there were times when talking to the Mavericks about trade possibilities meant inevitable confusion. Nelson would paint one picture, so to speak, discussing the possible pieces and players involved in an attempt to get a deal done. But Voulgaris, who this rival executive said had talked to his team simultaneously about a particular deal, would tell a different story. And because Voulgaris was widely known to have a direct line to Cuban, this dynamic was seen by Nelson as damaging to his credibility. When asked over the phone about this assertion on Wednesday, Cuban refuted the idea that Voulgaris had negatively impacted the process.

If this happened and I was Donnie, I'd tell The Bob to stand down, take it to Cuban, and if Cuban didn't back me, I'd quit. 

Can't get too in love with a job unless it's the only one you can get and you need the money.

[ItsGoTime]

What a mess:

As one rival team executive shared Wednesday, there were times when talking to the Mavericks about trade possibilities meant inevitable confusion. Nelson would paint one picture, so to speak, discussing the possible pieces and players involved in an attempt to get a deal done. But Voulgaris, who this rival executive said had talked to his team simultaneously about a particular deal, would tell a different story. And because Voulgaris was widely known to have a direct line to Cuban, this dynamic was seen by Nelson as damaging to his credibility. When asked over the phone about this assertion on Wednesday, Cuban refuted the idea that Voulgaris had negatively impacted the process.

Slightly funny thought (unless your a staunch Donnie supporter). In the last 2 sentences, maybe Mark was actually saying it was impossible to damage Donnie’s credibility any more than it was.

[mavsluvr]

Proof is in the pudding. We can assume with near certainty this is what happened with Miami. Cuban has bias here and must deny because he holds Vulgar Bob in high regard and wants him around, or he is biased and may not have anyone around he wants to listen to that could convince him otherwise. Results and reports show his denial of these circumstances is not in line with the truth.

As I understand it, Cuban isn't denying that these things happened. Just saying that he had no problems with it.

[Tyler]

Proof is in the pudding. We can assume with near certainty this is what happened with Miami.

Yep. That entire episode now makes a lot more sense.

[Kammrath]

OK, pal. You're awesome my friend, but your Donnie opinions just jumped the shark if you think Donnie knows very little about basketall. 

I am not saying what he does or does not actually know.....but when I hear RC talk, I hear a guy who knows basketball.....when I hear Donnie talk (like when "analyzing" Luka after the season) he comes across as not knowing much. Maybe that is a PR thing, a persona thing.....but I am just saying he has NEVER struck me as a fount of basketball wisdom. He says almost nothing of interest or note everytime he talks.....again that could be his schtick. 

Again, I do NOT know him personally and have never had a conversation with him so I am basing my opinion on listening to him for decades in his public role and nothing more.

[DallasBasketball]

As I understand it, Cuban isn't denying that these things happened. Just saying that he had no problems with it.

Thanks for the clarification. Not impacting the process doesn’t necessarily mean that these things didn’t happen, just that Cuban doesn’t feel by it happening that it blew the deal.

[ItsGoTime]

Thanks for the clarification. Not impacting the process doesn’t necessarily mean that these things didn’t happen, just that Cuban doesn’t feel by it happening that it blew the deal.

Hmmm, if I remember correctly, Miami pulled out of the deal cause they were confused and had a completely different idea of who they were giving up in the deal. That sounds to me like at least a bit of a wrench in the process. 

If I’m talking to a guy about buying his lawnmower for $50 and he has a separate conversation with my wife about buying it for $60, you can rest assured believe he’s going to want to sell that lawnmower for $60 knowing half of the decision maker process is willing to pay that much.

[Kammrath]

Cuban will never admit publicly to incompetence within his organization unless he absolutely has to (like the scandals). He will always blow it off publicly even if internally he knows the reality.

[TXBamanut]

Thanks for the clarification. Not impacting the process doesn’t necessarily mean that these things didn’t happen, just that Cuban doesn’t feel by it happening that it blew the deal.

Question:  What GM worth his salt, who could get a job elsewhere, is going to come to an organization where the previous GM was getting his legs cut out from under him, and the owner is fine with that and doesn't see a problem with it?

Answer:  Someone looking to get experience they can't get any other way, and then leave for a less toxic environment.  That's not good.  In other words, no Urji, no Ainge, no West...no one with skins on the wall.

[ItsGoTime]

Question:  What GM worth his salt, who could get a job elsewhere, is going to come to an organization where the previous GM was getting his legs cut out from under him, and the owner is fine with that and doesn't see a problem with it?

Answer:  Someone looking to get experience they can't get any other way, and then leave for a less toxic environment.  That's not good.  In other words, no Urji, no Ainge, no West...no one with skins on the wall.

Kindof like what I said in the other thread. What if Cuban is just waiting for the smoke to dissipate so he and Voulgaris can play slap ass in the FO.

[DallasBasketball]

Hmmm, if I remember correctly, Miami pulled out of the deal cause they were confused and had a completely different idea of who they were giving up in the deal. That sounds to me like at least a bit of a wrench in the process. 

If I’m talking to a guy about buying his lawnmower for $50 and he has a separate conversation with my wife about buying it for $60, you can rest assured believe he’s going to want to sell that lawnmower for $60 knowing half of the decision maker process is willing to pay that much.

I agree. Me attempting to put words in Cubans mouth is a moving target and I don’t know why I try.

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Cuban will never admit publicly to incompetence within his organization unless he absolutely has to (like the scandals). He will always blow it off publicly even if internally he knows the reality.

I think we should assume this every time he makes a statement about anything. Who was it that said, “if my lips are moving I’m probably lying”?

Oh it was Donnie   

[fifteenth]

Question:  What GM worth his salt, who could get a job elsewhere, is going to come to an organization where the previous GM was getting his legs cut out from under him, and the owner is fine with that and doesn't see a problem with it?

Agree. Scarry thought. Even if Donnie's time was up, he shouldn't have had to deal with an owner approved usurper. I hope Cuban learned that what happened isn't cool. If he didn't then I think you're right.