2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[cjeter24]

@"loki" I don't agree. Hawks have a lot of contracts on the books with additional big deals in the way. A max Collins deal plus a max Trae extension is going to put them deep into luxury tax 1 yr from now unless they start finding ways to shed money. Hunter, Huerter will get paid in a couple years. So somebody is getting moved unless they want to have a 170 million dollar cap sheet.

Now they could move a guy like Gallo but maybe they don't want to. He is a guy you could keep one more year and then move. Maxi is an example of a cheap rotation player. So I don't think it's a done deal at all that they want to match a max offer especially if they don't get past the Sixers.

It was pretty public that Collins was available for the right price at the TDL. I don't think he was moved bc they knew the same type of offers would still be there in the summer.

Credit to Atlanta for building a nice deep roster. 
Collins is very replaceable there. They have a nice crop of forwards. Are they as good as Collins? No. but they are solid. 

So when the money stuff comes into play, Collins is a complete luxury. It would be smart for them to cash in on him now, get some legit value out of him. It's about asset management and roster building with him and they can get buy without him. 

For other teams tho Collins is a much bigger need. Rebounding and rim rolling are massive holes here. He'd be irreplaceable here. 

I think Collins is very much in play to be in a SNT trade somewhere. I think that's the most likely scenario actually. But I'm doubtful it's the Mavs at this point.

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Does Kemba count - (I don't know how I feel) - because a trade of Richardson and JJ Reddick signed and traded for $17.133 million gets you Kemba at $36.02 million (couple of rounded #'s). I could see Dallas getting a couple of late 1st round picks out of that deal.

Then a trade of Powell, WCS and Burke gets you a $23.53~ million window to get Collins. In my estimation This deal would require a pick to OKC (maybe 2) and a pick to Atlanta.

At which point Dallas' payroll would skyrocket roughly $30 million BEFORE taking into account THJ and the full MLE...

I'm not sure about where the #s lineup in your scenario. But Mavs won't able to take a player back in a SNT or use the full MLE if they are above the apron. I think it's projected somewhere around 130-135 mill IIRC. 

Money gets tight pretty quick.

[cjeter24]

In regards to any free agent on the clippers, they will only have the tax payer MLE. One of Batum or Jackson is gone and likely both. I'll be very surprised if both aren't pulling down full MLE offer from teams.

[cjeter24]

I'm definitely leaning towards being an over the cap team this summer. You can basically threaten any team into a SNT with you by saying we'll just let THJ go and sign your guy which forces them into a SNT. Meanwhile behind closed doors, you are letting Timmy know you are going to resign him. 

It certainly helps that the big money free agents you want are going to be restricted. 

So you Resign THJ, SNT for another player, sign someone to the MLE and sign someone to the BAE. I think that's the optimal path to maximizing your summer and roster. Insert your own favorite names. 

I like Reggie Jackson for the MLE and Otto Porter as the BAE (I think his value might be that low). 
Or Batum for MLE and a guard free agent for BAE.

[StepBackJay]

I agree they're going to have to make some tough decisions, but I don't see Collins at 28M vs Collins at 22.5M being where they line they draw in the sand. If they had only offered him 70/4 I might believe in it a bit more. I guess we'll find out.

Sure it is because Collins had a worse year after he turned down that extension. His numbers were down likely in large part to Capella being healthy. He benefited from supersized numbers when Atlanta was in rebuilding mode.

Now he wants a max deal that would be harder to move frankly than the prior offer. Also it averaged 22.5/yr so it probably started at 20/yr vs the max offer sheet from another team would start at 27 and average around 28/yr I believe. It wouldn't surprised me if they matched considering they are now a legit threat in the East but then they still have to deal with looming cap hell because of these big upcoming contracts on top of a Collins deal.

Collins is a good player but not a max player and that's why the Mavs and other teams have a shot at him. If you offer a guy who isn't a star a max contract, well that's your shot at getting him.

[StepBackJay]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status...3758496770

Time to put Danny Green high on Mavs radar. Feels like Mavs will look his way again.

[dirkfansince1998]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status...3758496770

Time to put Danny Green high on Mavs radar. Feels like Mavs will look his way again.

[StepBackJay]

I am good with Danny Green, I think he is around the 10 mil level these days?

One thing we haven't talked ab is potentially getting a TE for J Rich that could be used for a guy like DG which allows you to still have your MLE for someone else.

[cjeter24]

If Richardson opts in, trade him and Powell to ATL in a SNT. Salaries will work. 

The value for Collins is tbd. But I think Brunson + Green is enough considering the Mavs could just opt to sign Collins with cap space and let THJ go. The value is to really keep THJ since they would have decided they aren't wanting to pay big money for Collins. You could also eat Dunn's contract if he opts in at 5 mill. 

Also if ATL does have cap space them making a run at Lonzo makes a lot of sense for them. A big guard next to Trae who can defend and shoot. 
Huerter going back to New Orleans also would make sense. Him and Bogi are really redundant.

[Mavs2021]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status...3758496770

Time to put Danny Green high on Mavs radar. Feels like Mavs will look his way again.

Sadly yeah. Or maybe this time (Jordan/Harrell) we try to sign the guy, Philly actually wants to keep in his place: 6´7 SG Furkan Korkmaz.

[StepBackJay]

Still feels like Collins is Mavs plan A especially since they have a path to get him and maybe keep THJ.

Collins is intended to be a Maxi upgrade that works with or without KP.

For playmaker they will have to be creative, swapping JR, JJR or using an exception to get a value guy. We desperately need someone who can pass the ball for 18 minutes a game.

[Tyler]

For playmaker they will have to be creative, swapping JR, JJR or using an exception to get a value guy. We desperately need someone who can pass the ball for 18 minutes a game.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Dinwiddie is on the Mavs short list. He fits the bill as a secondary playmaker with size, will be readily available, and off the court is a big crypto promoter that could appeal to a guy like Cuban. It also won't surprise me if Dallas and Brooklyn find a mutually beneficial way to swap Dinwiddie and Redick in some sort of S&T deal.

[BasketballJones41]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Dinwiddie is on the Mavs short list. He fits the bill as a secondary playmaker with size, will be readily available, and off the court is a big crypto promoter that could appeal to a guy like Cuban. It also won't surprise me if Dallas and Brooklyn find a mutually beneficial way to swap Dinwiddie and Redick in some sort of S&T deal.

I think you may be onto something. The Mavericks have tried to trade for Dinwiddie twice already. So clearly they like him. I have two major drawbacks with him. First I know he’s a really bad 3 pt shooter but is he at least any good as a spot up guy? Or is there any chance he could be? And can he be a good team defender? He certainly got good size for a perimeter player.

[cjeter24]

visited the blazers reddit today. Narrative over there seems to be trade McCollum and keep Powell that they shouldn't keep both. But they want to trade McCollum for something and resign Powell. 

They say McCollum doesn't play defense and Powell is a good defender.

I wouldn't mind having either guy.

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I have a sneaking suspicion that Dinwiddie is on the Mavs short list. He fits the bill as a secondary playmaker with size, will be readily available, and off the court is a big crypto promoter that could appeal to a guy like Cuban. It also won't surprise me if Dallas and Brooklyn find a mutually beneficial way to swap Dinwiddie and Redick in some sort of S&T deal.

Nets can't receive anyone in a SNT as a tax team. But... Dinwiddle may opt in. It's a tough market and he'd get a much bigger payday if he shows he's healthy. 

I could see the Mavs just trading for him which I'm good with.

[StepBackJay]

I think you may be onto something. The Mavericks have tried to trade for Dinwiddie twice already. So clearly they like him. I have two major drawbacks with him. First I know he’s a really bad 3 pt shooter but is he at least any good as a spot up guy? Or is there any chance he could be? And can he be a good team defender? He certainly got good size for a perimeter player.

So I think the appeal of Dinwiddie is going to be the minutes where Luka isn't playing. Right now Mavs don't really have a guy to drive the offense when Luka sits. We want Luka to be able to site for 18 minutes and the offense look like a functional offense. Unfortunately with Brunson he has struggled to be a facilitator and is primarily a scorer at this time. His assists per minute are actually not that bad. I think he can do drive and kicks well but that's about it. He certainly can and should get better in time but Mavs need a real playmaker off the bench.

I would argue Mavs already have a pretty good lineup with Luka on the floor where playmaking would probably be a luxury.

The Luka, THJ, DFS, KP, Powell lineup generates plenty of offense. I would like it to be improved for sure but I don't know if Luka is ever going to really want to hand over the ball much when he's out there.

A year ago Dinwiddie was a pretty electric player. I think if you can get him on a prove-it deal he will be very motivated to show he is still a big time player. I don't know that he's a long-term solution but if you can get him on something like a J Rich opt-in swap then you are getting his bird rights and able to stay over the cap.

The Nets are a taxpayer team and can't do much to improve their roster. I am ab 90% sure receiving an opt-in player will not trigger the hard cap because its just a player opting into their final year. This would be one of the few avenues they have to add depth that isn't just vet min players.

[StepBackJay]

visited the blazers reddit today. Narrative over there seems to be trade McCollum and keep Powell that they shouldn't keep both. But they want to trade McCollum for something and resign Powell. 

They say McCollum doesn't play defense and Powell is a good defender.

I wouldn't mind having either guy.

I am pretty sure CJ is finally going to get traded to shake things up. Powell should be his replacement. Who CJ gets traded for is a huge question. I believe CJ has a lot more value than KP on the open market. You can't have enough big-time efficient guard scorers in the NBA. I wish Mavs had a path to get CJ (ie KP) but I believe they will go a different direction. There's really so many guys they could trade him for it will be hard to narrow down until we start seeing some real leaks.

If there was a Blazers opportunity for the Mavs to me it would be KP for Nurkic, RoCo, DJJ. Niurkic is a good player but I am pretty sure they will want to try something else, DJJ fell out of the rotation, so the main asset they would be trading is RoCo. KP's contract is so big I don't know the Blazers would do that but with a big shakeup you never know. Trading this package for KP, then CJ for another star-ish player could give them a brand new look in the starting lineup.

[cjeter24]

I am pretty sure CJ is finally going to get traded to shake things up. Powell should be his replacement. Who CJ gets traded for is a huge question. I believe CJ has a lot more value than KP on the open market. You can't have enough big-time efficient guard scorers in the NBA. I wish Mavs had a path to get CJ (ie KP) but I believe they will go a different direction. There's really so many guys they could trade him for it will be hard to narrow down until we start seeing some real leaks.

If there was a Blazers opportunity for the Mavs to me it would be KP for Nurkic, RoCo, DJJ. Niurkic is a good player but I am pretty sure they will want to try something else, DJJ fell out of the rotation, so the main asset they would be trading is RoCo. KP's contract is so big I don't know the Blazers would do that but with a big shakeup you never know. Trading this package for KP, then CJ for another star-ish player could give them a brand new look in the starting lineup.

Blazers reddit seems to McCollum he has little trade value even tho they want to trade him for something. Sound familiar? lol
He's missed alot of games the last few years, has had a bunch of injuries and plays no defense. Sound familiar? 
He's also on a big money deal and is a low 20s ppg scorer. That also describes KP. 

I think McCollum definitely has more value. But if KP has little value, McCollum can't have alot of value either.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Dinwiddie is on the Mavs short list. He fits the bill as a secondary playmaker with size, will be readily available, and off the court is a big crypto promoter that could appeal to a guy like Cuban. It also won't surprise me if Dallas and Brooklyn find a mutually beneficial way to swap Dinwiddie and Redick in some sort of S&T deal.

Redick is a S&T to a team over the tax line.  Wouldn’t it need to be JRich’s expiring deal instead?  They might prefer a TPE by trading Dinwiddie into space (here or elsewhere).  I’m an admirer of the last full season he had in Brooklyn before all the stars became available.  But, on this version of the Mav’s, I think Caruso might be a better fit.

[Mavs2021]

Coby White out at least four months after shoulder surgery. Big blow for the Bulls. They might have to replace his 15/5/4 to start the season. They can´t dig themselves a hole trying to make the play-offs and show something to Lavine. Certainly doesn´t decrease our chances to pull off a S&T for Markkanen involving THJ, Richardson (the dream) or Brunson.

[Scott41theMavs]

Blazers reddit seems to McCollum he has little trade value even tho they want to trade him for something. Sound familiar? lol
He's missed alot of games the last few years, has had a bunch of injuries and plays no defense. Sound familiar? 
He's also on a big money deal and is a low 20s ppg scorer. That also describes KP. 

I think McCollum definitely has more value. But if KP has little value, McCollum can't have alot of value either.

CJ can create his own shot. KP can't do any one thing reliably, except maybe pout. They used to say, "Don't trade bigs for littles," but that was before the current rules.

[RedFlag41]

What do you guys think of this trade idea:

Mavs trade Kristaps Porzingis to the OKC Thunder for Al Horford and Lu Dort.

And other off season ideas:

1. Trade JRich, JGreen and Tyler Terry for Rucky Rubio,
2. Sign THJ for 20M/year for 3 years
3. Sign Theis for Full MLE,
4. Sign PJ Tucker for BAE,

Potential Roster

Starters:
PG Luka
SG Lu Dort
SF THJ
PF DFS
C Horford

Bench:
PG JB
SG Rubio
SF Tucker
PF Maxi
C Theis

Lu Dort will provide elite perimeter defense alongside Luka. Is an improved scorer. Can and will improve as a shooter.

Horford will provide veteran leadership with years of playoff experience.

Rubio will provide ball-handling, playmaking off the bench. Can potentially play alongside Luka as another perimeter defender.

Theis will provide versatile defense, can shoot the three, roll to the basket, has a mid range shot, will provide hussle and energy off the bench.