2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[Tyler]

KP on the other hand can be borderline unplayable.

I get that people are frustrated with KP. And I also understand that it has been a down year for him defensively. But we're talking about a young guy who averaged 20 and 9 on the 5th seed in the West and who opens up the floor for others in ways most other big guys can't. IMO, too many fans let the image of what they wish he was cloud their ability to see the player he is. And he clearly has talent.

[dirkfansince1998]

I get that people are frustrated with KP. And I also understand that it has been a down year for him defensively. But we're talking about a young guy who averaged 20 and 9 on the 5th seed in the West and who opens up the floor for others in ways most other big guys can't. IMO, too many fans let the image of what they wish he was cloud their ability to see the player he is. And he clearly has talent.

Kemba averaged 19/4/5 and has better +/- numbers. Don´t get how he is on the verge of being out of the league but KP with the worst +/- numbers on the Mavs somehow has more trade value.
I think it is the opposite. People are still dreaming about the "what could have been" and refuse to see the net negative that is playing right now. At this point we are celebrating games like yesterdays. A max player dropped 8pts/6reb in a playoff game but at least he wasn´t hurting the Mavs on both ends.

[KillerLeft]

I think this is very astute.

It's basically what I've been saying for MONTHS. Why wasn't it astute any of the times I wrote it?

[Omega_Supreme]

Right but I don't think anyone wants Kembas contract.

Kemba is a high risk much in the same way KP is. 

I am okay with Marcus Smart and a few other pieces and draft compensation. Draft compensation is key as its one of the best assets to piece with future deals. The Mavs at some point have to value gaining assets. '

The best result in a KP trade IMO is one where we take less salary back while getting a rotational piece and draft compensation. This is assuming we cannot get a star like Lavine or Beal who could ask out of their current situations.

[SwisherPrice]

Biggest question mark on KP is and will always be his durability. When you take a chance on a 7'3" player like that, you just never know. It already looks like his athleticism/mobility may be declining from a few years ago. Once it's gone, it's gone and then you have a big man with a decent jumpshot but that's it

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Kemba is toast.  He's now missing playoff games with a "bone bruise".  That injury report speak for degenerative bone on bone condition and chronic fluid/swelling.  5-10 years ago that was a microfracture surgery, but now they're just telling players to skip microfracture, go ahead and retire and get the knee replaced down the line.   That's the end of the line for a 31 year old six foot point guard.

[Kammrath]

It's basically what I've been saying for MONTHS. Why wasn't it astute any of the times I wrote it?

I just like the way he worded it....no biggie.

[KillerLeft]

I just like the way he worded it....no biggie.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Need a 3rd team. 

Agree.  I don’t see KP and Sabonis as a fit.  Fish didn’t regurgitate someone else’s story here.  This was presented as a source saying there might be interest.  Fish writes things sometimes to hide the fact that he doesn’t have much.  But sometimes he writes in a way to not burn a source when he does have something.  He does have sources and it is probably worth paying some attention based on how it was written.  The Duffy angle doesn’t hurt.

The simplest deal is Turner and Justin Holiday for trade matching purposes.  I like starting as simple as possible.  It works as a draft day match but not as a deal in the summer.  I think the former is important, especially in the case of a three-way.  It allows for draft picks to be part of the deal.  I think you have to presume that Indy wants to improve and doesn’t want to pay tax.  I don’t think Kemba is a consideration here.  I don’t think they are giving away Turner PLUS someone useful.  I’m also not a fan of creating something that requires a S&T.

The question would be where to send KP and what Indy would want in return.  Is Warren a SF or a PF next to Sabonis?  Indy was a poor defensive team this year, but were 3rd in the league last season when Warren was healthy.  I suspect they would want a two way player, but certainly no slouch on Defense.

Edit:  A deal for Turner would make sense of Markkanen’s comment about wanting to come here as it would take someone like Turner to make LM’s lack of defense workable.

[ItsGoTime]

It's basically what I've been saying for MONTHS. Why wasn't it astute any of the times I wrote it?

I’ll give you props for that. It’s the basis of my thoughts on KP as well. I just think his trade value is quite a bit higher than you and dirkfan (and some others) think it is. I also believe, if it isn’t, you guys should be prepared for another year of KP (as long as he isn’t demanding a trade) cause I don’t believe our FO would trade him for less than basically what Vucevic brought.

[Tyler]

The question would be where to send KP and what Indy would want in return.  Is Warren a SF or a PF next to Sabonis?  Indy was a poor defensive team this year, but were 3rd in the league last season when Warren was healthy.  I suspect they would want a two way player, but certainly no slouch on Defense

I wonder if Indy would be interested in flipping KP to Boston for something like Smart/Williams/Thompson. With the way each team needs a shakeup, I feel like there could be something there.

And I definitely like your idea of pairing Turner and Markkanen. That's a fun frontcourt that could really blossom playing with Doncic.

[KillerLeft]

I’ll give you props for that. It’s the basis of my thoughts on KP as well. I just think his trade value is quite a bit higher than you and dirkfan (and some others) think it is. I also believe, if it isn’t, you guys should be prepared for another year of KP (as long as he isn’t demanding a trade) cause I don’t believe our FO would trade him for less than basically what Vucevic brought.

You might be right, but Stepback's point (and what I've been suggesting for months) is that regardless of who's right - regardless of just what KP's value is now, high or low, it's very likely to be lower a year from now. I think you probably disagree, but want to be clear.

There is no doubt in my mind that league wide opinion of him is at least slightly lower now than it was before this series started, for example. I don't claim to know what the Mavs will do about this situation, but my opinion is that literally every day that goes by means a lesser return in trade for Porzingis, with no lower limit...probably until he's in the last year of his contract and someone wants to get off of some other bad money.

[ItsGoTime]

You might be right, but Stepback's point (and what I've been suggesting for months) is that regardless of who's right - regardless of just what KP's value is now, high or low, it's very likely to be lower a year from now. I think you probably disagree, but want to be clear.

There is no doubt in my mind that league wide opinion of him is at least slightly lower now than it was before this series started, for example. I don't claim to know what the Mavs will do about this situation, but my opinion is that literally every day that goes by means a lesser return in trade for Porzingis, with no lower limit...probably until he's in the last year of his contract and someone wants to get off of some other bad money.

Ya, I believe you think that cause you’ve said you think his injuries are catching up with him and this is who he is. I disagree with that pretty fully. Everything he’s done for the last 3 years is rehab. When they decided to keep him out after the trade so he could be fully ready for the next season, that is KP after working on his body and game. 

COVID hit and he had time to work on his body and game, he then became bubble KP. He got injured in the playoffs and came back a bit early after not being able to work much on his body and game. I think if he is not injured in these playoffs (holy crap that better not happen cause that throws value to where you guys are saying it is now), he comes back better than ever next season. 

I still hope that better than ever season is on another team, cause I hate the risk of having him to get a good seed then not getting him for the playoffs. Worse would be a Parsons/Hayward-like injury in the beginning of the season and being out for the season.

I’ve been at that spot for most of the season after seeing Luka and him not playing well together and realizing Luka hasn’t seen enough or had enough failure to work towards deferring to a guy that can score like KP can. Right now, in Luka’s development, he needs the team to be Luka and his merry men. No Robin to his Batman.

---

I said all that, cause I’m with you on the trade KP train. I just disagree with the price for the ticket.

[omahen]

Need a 3rd team. Maybe the Celtics? Walker and minor assets to the Pacers. KP to the Celtics. Turner and salary filler (Lamb...pipe dream McConnell sign&trade) to Dallas.

Good idea. Kemba only has 2 years left so its not end of the world. Let me be extremely optimistic and build from your idea:

Bos: KP (KP has more value than Kemba, so assets have to go out)
Ind: Kemba, Maxi, Bos assets (Kemba replaces Brogdon, Maxi replaces Turner), 2027 Dal FRP
Dal: Turner, Brogdon 

Spend cap space on PF (Markkanen?) and THJ

[omahen]

Looking at Portland. Assuming they resign Powell at some 20 mil they will have 140 mil of committed salary on 5 starters, 3 meh reserves (Little, Simons, Eleby) and Jones Jr who fell out of rotation. McCollum and Powell seem redundant. They need a true PF moving RoCo to SF. KP doesn't fill their needs unless they also move Nurkic. So the deal would need to be huge. Without going into three or more teams options, a core of Dallas - Portland deal could be:

Por: Porzingis, Kleber
Dal: McCollum, Nurkic

McCollum market value is probably higher than KP. Same contract, McCollum is older but better. Portland would have to love the idea of KP. Kleber brings them the legit stretch PF defender. Could be a glue piece for them, especially if KP could return at least a bit to his defense playing days. Nurkic production is higher, but he only has one year left on his deal. This means Dallas has to add something to equalize the value. 

One thing we can do is take DJJ contract and save 10 mil of their huge tax bill, which gives them more options resigning their guys or signing MLE backups. DJJ could be the bench SF/PF and a body to throw at Kawhi of the world. But we would desperately need a stretch four next to Nurkic and our options would be very limited if we resign Hardaway. We could operate over the cap if we add WCS to the deal either to Portland or somewhere else. Would Markkanen take MLE level prove it contract? Pipedream probably. Batum looks like best possible option.

The other option is Brunson. With McCollum in and if Mavs resign THJ, there is realistically not enough minutes for him and Green could pick up those remaining guard minutes as fourth guard. Portland could use a reliable PG behind Lillard on a cheap contract. If DJJ is not included in the trade, Mavs would have some 15-20 of cap space left for a stretch PF. 

Luka, Burke, Terry
McCollum, THJ
DFS, Green
free agent, rMLE
Nurkic, Powell

As a conclusion, I am not really convinced. McCollum solves our secondary scoring problem, but our defensive hole gets bigger and we would spend most of our assets.

[Mavs2021]

I´m good with Turner + Lamb for Porizingis. Maybe add a pick from Pacers. Sign Markkanen.


Should still be possible to sign Lavine or Beal, if it comes down to it.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I wonder if Indy would be interested in flipping KP to Boston for something like Smart/Williams/Thompson. With the way each team needs a shakeup, I feel like there could be something there.

And I definitely like your idea of pairing Turner and Markkanen. That's a fun frontcourt that could really blossom playing with Doncic.

You can pretty well bring back the entire band if you do that (except KP).  The ages of Turner and Markkanen allow you to keep a consistent front court until Luka is in his late 20's to about 30.  Turner is a better defender than Maxi and Markkanen is a better outside shooter than KP (and can floor the ball to add a dimension to the O).  If THJ doesn't wish to return for $18mm, there are other players to take that slot.  The bench is self sufficient, meaning the starters can stay together more.  JRich rolls off after a year and Holiday after two giving Green a role to grow into as time goes by.

Turner (18)/Powell (11)/WCS or Boban (rMLE)    29.0 + Exception
Markkanen (13.7)/Maxi (9)/Bey (1.5)                 24.2
DFS (4)/Holiday (6)/Green (3)                           13.0    
THJ (18)/JRich (11.6)/Burke (3.1)                      32.7
Luka (10.2)/Brunson (1.8)/Terry (1.5)                13.5
                                                                      112.4 + Exception

[ClutchDirk]

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/statu...9928195078

[Omega_Supreme]

You can pretty well bring back the entire band if you do that (except KP).  The ages of Turner and Markkanen allow you to keep a consistent front court until Luka is in his late 20's to about 30.  Turner is a better defender than Maxi and Markkanen is a better outside shooter than KP (and can floor the ball to add a dimension to the O).  If THJ doesn't wish to return for $18mm, there are other players to take that slot.  The bench is self sufficient, meaning the starters can stay together more.  JRich rolls off after a year and Holiday after two giving Green a role to grow into as time goes by.

Turner (18)/Powell (11)/WCS or Boban (rMLE)    29.0 + Exception
Markkanen (13.7)/Maxi (9)/Bey (1.5)                 24.2
DFS (4)/Holiday (6)/Green (3)                           13.0    
THJ (18)/JRich (11.6)/Burke (3.1)                      32.7
Luka (10.2)/Brunson (1.8)/Terry (1.5)                13.5
                                                                      112.4 + Exception

That team still does not solve our issue of having to rely to much on Luka as a primary ball handler. 
Turner may be attainable without KP

We have two big needs going into next year:

1. Strengthen our frontcourt specifically center with power forward needing upgrading as well
2. Add another ball handler to offset Luka and compliment Luka

The bonus is that each of those players being able to be functional offensive players as well.

[StepBackJay]

I just don´t see it but I guess the "Unicorn" hype gives KP a slight advantage. Just don´t think that it is enough to compensate for the injury risk and the negative net impact.
At least the worst version of Kemba wasn´t a liability (just a highly overpaid average starting PG). KP on the other hand can be borderline unplayable.

Kemba is played off the floor sometimes because he is such a defensive liability. When Mavs play him they attack him relentlessly. Now he's a good player but his age/contract/injury history/size I think puts him in a position where there just isn't a market for him. You can look at even Celtics blogs and I haven't seen much hope that they can move him this year. Once he is an expiring contract then he will be easier to move. The best they could get for Kemba would be some other bad contract so what's the point.

I believe there is an actual market for KP, despite his flaws. Teams will have interest and put together packages to try to land him.