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2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived
(05-31-2021, 03:16 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: Miles Turner averaged over 3 blocks this year and I keep trying to convince myself that he is worth taking a chance on. I hate his rebounding numbers and hate that he plays soft sometimes, but do you think Miles Turner is worth taking a flyer on? I love his contract too BTW. He seems like a guy that could flirt with an all defensive team at some point. 

Of the players available this offseason, Myles Turner is probably the most realistic target.

Please use his correct name: Myles Turner. Wink Otherwise the Mavs might sign CJ Miles and Evan Turner. Cry
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1000...ree-agency
Josh Green is a top 5 Mavs player...
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(05-31-2021, 03:16 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: Miles Turner averaged over 3 blocks this year and I keep trying to convince myself that he is worth taking a chance on. I hate his rebounding numbers and hate that he plays soft sometimes, but do you think Miles Turner is worth taking a flyer on? I love his contract too BTW. He seems like a guy that could flirt with an all defensive team at some point. 

Of the players available this offseason, Myles Turner is probably the most realistic target.

I didn't watch enough Pacers to decide,  and one thing I am terrible at is judging defenders Big Grin
That said, he is the first name that comes tomy mind
On paper,  at least
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(05-31-2021, 03:16 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: Miles Turner averaged over 3 blocks this year and I keep trying to convince myself that he is worth taking a chance on. I hate his rebounding numbers and hate that he plays soft sometimes, but do you think Miles Turner is worth taking a flyer on? I love his contract too BTW. He seems like a guy that could flirt with an all defensive team at some point. 

Of the players available this offseason, Myles Turner is probably the most realistic target.

Ya I wouldn't call Turner a "flyer," I would call him a major target given that he does exactly what Rick wants which is shoot outside and play defense.
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It´s so annoying that the Wizards have nothing to match Porzingis contract. Bryant/Hachimura or even Hachimura/Gafford is pretty reasonable, but Bertans contract is vomit-inducing. Maybe that is a trade for October, when freshly signed players become trade eligible and the Mavs could do MLE/Bryant/Hachimura for Porzingis.
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(05-31-2021, 08:54 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: It´s so annoying that the Wizards have nothing to match Porzingis contract. Bryant/Hachimura or even Hachimura/Gafford is pretty reasonable, but Bertans contract is vomit-inducing. Maybe that is a trade for October, when freshly signed players become trade eligible and the Mavs could do MLE/Bryant/Hachimura for Porzingis.

I think Bertans contract is the going rate for high volume 3 point shooters is it not? He shoots almost 8 three pointers a game at a 40% clip. THJ will probably get paid more to do about the same. I think Rick would have use for him, you can't have enough shooters and his deal isn't as vomit inducing as KP's at this point.
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(05-31-2021, 09:10 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I think Bertans contract is the going rate for high volume 3 point shooters is it not? He shoots almost 8 three pointers a game at a 40% clip. THJ will probably get paid more to do about the same. I think Rick would have use for him, you can't have enough shooters and his deal isn't as vomit inducing as KP's at this point.

So you you gain 2% points on 3pt shots over KP with 2 extra shots per game? KP shoots almost 40% with 6 shots per game. but a 9ppg difference.
KP is a good 3 pt shooter too. If you want more 3s, adjust your scheme to have KP shoot. 

Bertans ain't the answer for a KP trade. He's not as good as KP but does make quite a bit less. Cap space trades for KP are just silly unless we have a commit for a big FA which won't be the case this summer.
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(05-31-2021, 10:36 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: So you you gain 2% points on 3pt shots over KP with 2 extra shots per game? KP shoots almost 40% with 6 shots per game. but a 9ppg difference.
KP is a good 3 pt shooter too. If you want more 3s, adjust your scheme to have KP shoot. 

Bertans ain't the answer for a KP trade. He's not as good as KP but does make quite a bit less. Cap space trades for KP are just silly unless we have a commit for a big FA which won't be the case this summer.

Right I am just saying Bertans would most certainly be in a KP trade. I think the trade would be Bertans, Bryant and at least on of Rui/Deni plus maybe their draft pick and it would go down on draft night.
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At this point, I think the best comparison for trade value is Vucevic. KP is 5 years younger and has played well enough in the past to believe that he can put it all together at some point, with a change of scenery and coach that works to make that happen.

WCJ - a rookie scale contract on a player that isn't working out for his team, but could use a change of scenery.
OPJ - a big expiring contract on a player that is useful on the court, in a position of need and could be signed to a reasonable contract for his contribution in the coming offseason.
2 firsts from a team that hopes to hit the playoffs soon enough to not worry about draft picks as much.

That to me is the minimum that I would let KP go for if I'm in the FO, and I work to get more than that. Obviously we have to look at the trade value each of those pieces brought and match that with what a team can and will give up.
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(06-01-2021, 09:40 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: Right I am just saying Bertans would most certainly be in a KP trade. I think the trade would be Bertans, Bryant and at least on of Rui/Deni plus maybe their draft pick and it would go down on draft night.
That is very on par with what I just posted (was working on that post when you posted yours). I will say, I think Hachimura needs to be in the trade (if it's only 1 of Hachi or Avdija), however, I'm going in requiring both (and their 21 pick). If I come out with 1 of Avdija or the pick, I'd be fine with that.

I think the addition of Bertans makes THJ expendable and we can then go after Holmes to round out the starters. On our side, if they need players back, we can give up TT and/or Burke.

Luka/JB
JRich(opted in)/Green
Avdija/DFS (Avdija needs to win this spot over DFS)
Hachi/Maxi
Holmes/WCS
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After writing the above, I wonder what a trade of Powell, Maxi, JRich (opted in) and DFS could net us? What I would want in return is a starting 2 way SG and lesser bench players than they all are. Someone like Charlotte with a glutton of guards that could use great lockerroom vet presence and who are recently playoff tested?
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(06-01-2021, 10:15 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: After writing the above, I wonder what a trade of Powell, Maxi, JRich (opted in) and DFS could net us? What I would want in return is a starting 2 way SG and lesser bench players than they all are. Someone like Charlotte with a glutton of guards that could use great lockerroom vet presence and who are recently playoff tested?

I would be surprised if Powell gets moved just bc what are we going to get back that's better? He does have value and its possible we get say a wing back of similar quality so its not possible.

JR I still think opts out no matter what but if he did opt-in on a 1 yr despite all of his flaws he would be a small asset. 

I love DFS so much but he gets exposed sometimes as a starter. I feel like he needs to be a flex starter where if he's not hitting his shot you don't *have* to start him. His contract expiring does mean it might be good to sell high on him.

Maxi has value but its a little bit lower because he is injured. He shot great from 3 for the season so that should keep his value up and I believe teams including the Mavs know that his defensive dropoff is related a lot to Covid and injuries. That being said we may be in decline athletically and so it could be good to move him while teams still think he has a good chance to return to at least an above average defender.

Of all the guys, I feel like Maxi might be the one most likely traded but I am certainly open to any and all trades at this point.
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(06-01-2021, 10:07 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: That is very on par with what I just posted (was working on that post when you posted yours). I will say, I think Hachimura needs to be in the trade (if it's only 1 of Hachi or Avdija), however, I'm going in requiring both (and their 21 pick). If I come out with 1 of Avdija or the pick, I'd be fine with that.

I think the addition of Bertans makes THJ expendable and we can then go after Holmes to round out the starters. On our side, if they need players back, we can give up TT and/or Burke.

Luka/JB
JRich(opted in)/Green
Avdija/DFS (Avdija needs to win this spot over DFS)
Hachi/Maxi
Holmes/WCS

It feels like THJ is going to be back no matter what for better or worse. Even if he wets the bed the last couple of games in this series that might make his contract value go back to where it probably should have been in the first place, more towards the 15/yr number than 20/yr. His defense is really bad but he does take charges so there's that.

My observation of Rui is that he would be used kind of in the Powell role but with more offensive tools and better defense? I don't think he really fits the archetype of what Rick wants in a PF which is kind of an issue. Rick really wants his PF to be able to shoot from distance altho Rui is young enough that maybe his shot comes around.

I am not sure ab Avdija's defense not having watched him a lot. Googling around it seems like he is good defensively so if he's really a 2-way player then I would definitely want him in the deal.

I am also sure Thomas Bryant would have to be in the deal. Altho he had a partial ACL tear he is 23 and fits the roller archetype of what Rick wants. He can also shoot outside which is huge.

So with that I don't think the Holmes thing would happen. Mavs would be getting back a starting center, plus a wing or two and maybe a first round pick/player.

For the Wiz they are taking a risk but I feel like they would take the risk for the same reason they traded Westbrook for Wall and actually gave up 1st round picks in that deal. Landing KP would form a big 3 that they could fill around. They still would have some small pieces they could resign (Lopez, Ish Smith, Len, Bongo) + MLE to try to fill out a roster.
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(06-01-2021, 11:14 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: It feels like THJ is going to be back no matter what for better or worse.
There is little doubt of this. However, as I said, if we get Bertans (this could be a draft day trade, before we make a decision on THJ), he basically does what THJ is doing, so the question becomes, do we want THJ or his money? 

As far as Bryant, if he's as good as you are saying (I don't know at all) I think we could move either him or Holmes based on whichever wins the starting spot over the other. Otherwise, with the duo, our C spot would be set for the long term (think about having a C duo like TC and Hayward for the long future). We then take our pick of Bobi or WCS (WCS) to be our deep backup and trade or let walk the other 2 (Powell and WCS/Bobi).

Future would look bright if Rui and Avdija just need a change of scenery!
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It´s a longshot but 76ers fan are having their usual trade Ben Simmons playoffs meltdown. Couldn´t do anything in the half court. Was exposed at the FT line. Wizards hacked him.
KP to the 76ers makes no sense for them. Need to find a 3rd team with a legit PG that can replace Simmons. Would obviously require more than just KP from the Mavs.
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Jimmy Butler for KP as a base might be an option.

Bam should be able to cover for KP on defense, you could plug in Brunson/Kleber/Timmy or Dragic SnTs to extend the deal.

There were reports about internal conflict with Butler and they just got bounced in the first round of the playoffs. Maybe there’s a „fresh start“ scenario for both teams doable.
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(06-01-2021, 12:44 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: There is little doubt of this. However, as I said, if we get Bertans (this could be a draft day trade, before we make a decision on THJ), he basically does what THJ is doing, so the question becomes, do we want THJ or his money? 

As far as Bryant, if he's as good as you are saying (I don't know at all) I think we could move either him or Holmes based on whichever wins the starting spot over the other. Otherwise, with the duo, our C spot would be set for the long term (think about having a C duo like TC and Hayward for the long future). We then take our pick of Bobi or WCS (WCS) to be our deep backup and trade or let walk the other 2 (Powell and WCS/Bobi).

Future would look bright if Rui and Avdija just need a change of scenery!

Mavs used to have two shooters THJ and Curry and that worked okay. I think the issue with the THJ situation is just not wanting to lose an asset. If he walks it could be hard to replace him with a better player. Teams fall in love with their own guys and I see the same situation happening here. That being said I think you can have use for both.

For Bryant it really depends on the Mavs medical evaluation of him. They obv took on KP with an ACL tear but he had star upside at the time. I don't think Mavs would get Holmes and Bryant. Both of those guys are starters in the league. Holmes should be an option for the Mavs but they might have to way overpay to get him considering there are teams like Toronto and Charlotte who will be hot after a starting-calber center.

I like Rui and Avdija as prospects and I think they would at least be useful rotation players on cheap deals with upside.

I am not saying the framework of this type of deal is amazing return but its viable enough to me to be something on the table. I think KP's value will only go down (at least on this team) if Mavs hang onto him so they need to entertain any and all offers.
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(06-01-2021, 01:01 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: It´s a longshot but 76ers fan are having their usual trade Ben Simmons playoffs meltdown. Couldn´t do anything in the half court. Was exposed at the FT line. Wizards hacked him.
KP to the 76ers makes no sense for them. Need to find a 3rd team with a legit PG that can replace Simmons. Would obviously require more than just KP from the Mavs.

To me the obvious Sixers trade (if any existed) would be KP for Tobias Harris but I don't see that happening. Embiid seems to always get hurt which puts pressure on Simmons. He is just not a guy that can carry a team but I don't see them trading him. Simmons works just fine when Embiid is healthy.
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(06-01-2021, 09:55 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: At this point, I think the best comparison for trade value is Vucevic. KP is 5 years younger and has played well enough in the past to believe that he can put it all together at some point, with a change of scenery and coach that works to make that happen.

WCJ - a rookie scale contract on a player that isn't working out for his team, but could use a change of scenery.
OPJ - a big expiring contract on a player that is useful on the court, in a position of need and could be signed to a reasonable contract for his contribution in the coming offseason.
2 firsts from a team that hopes to hit the playoffs soon enough to not worry about draft picks as much.

That to me is the minimum that I would let KP go for if I'm in the FO, and I work to get more than that. Obviously we have to look at the trade value each of those pieces brought and match that with what a team can and will give up.

And that right there will never happen.

Upside projection on a rookie contract player and two 1st round picks. The Mavs would have zero interest in such a (future) trade package. That would require long-term strategic planning and player development. There is a better chance, they trade Porzingis for Horford straight up.

That being said I would love to do a

Gary Harris (expiring)
Mo Bamba
Bulls 2021 1st round pick (protected 1-4) Draft Jalen Johnson.

deal.
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(06-01-2021, 01:06 PM)JamesConway Wrote: Jimmy Butler for KP as a base might be an option.

Bam should be able to cover for KP on defense, you could plug in Brunson/Kleber/Timmy or Dragic SnTs to extend the deal.

There were reports about internal conflict with Butler and they just got bounced in the first round of the playoffs. Maybe there’s a „fresh start“ scenario for both teams doable.

Jimmy is such a superior player but the thing on the Mavs side is that they would give him a max extension (to 36 yr old) which the Heat might be nervous about. A JB for KP trade would be fantastic for the Mavs.

For Heat they would sign Lowry probably as a JB replacement and figure out another stop-gap solution at SF (Ariza is really ol) but there are plenty of options out there.

Miami lineup would be something like:

Lowry
Robinson (resigned)
rMLE SF
Bam
KP
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