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2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived
The clippers played great defense once again. So it’s not like all the NBA teams just gave up playing defense and we’re in some post-modern era of constantly trying to outscore other teams. We simply do not have the personnel to put up defensive resistance. Once again. Clippers got anything they wanted with such little fight it was pathetic.........last offseason was a half measure towards fixing this. I just don’t see how we can try a 3rd time and expect different results. We don’t have enough wing defenders. The opposing PG gets whatever they want. We don’t have a rim protector. We can’t outmuscle the opponent for rebounds. We are soft. And it tanks the offense with it
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I am ready to trade this entire team sans Luka. What a difference 2 games makes. 2 games away we were ready to lock up everybody and fill in a couple holes. Right now I am thinking everything is on the table.
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(05-31-2021, 08:39 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: I am ready to trade this entire team sans Luka. What a difference 2 games makes. 2 games away we were ready to lock up everybody and fill in a couple holes. Right now I am thinking everything is on the table.
I’d build around Luka, DFS and Maxi

Brunson, KP and J Rich available in trade

Hardaway probably back unless our trades net players that replace him and we needed the space or something. 

All the other players including the rookies are available if necessary for matching or trade assets. The only thing I’m not touching is the FRP’s. Saving them

Just bring in the highest quality 2-way players we can find
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(05-30-2021, 02:56 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: If it’s unrealistic then kp isn’t going anywhere. They aren’t dumping him for absolutely nothing. It’s unrealistic to think that type of trade happens.

I am almost willing to bet you that KP will be traded and it won't be for John Collins. The Hawks have Collins replacement already on the roster and adding 30 million dollars to the payroll makes no sense. 

KP will be traded and I willing to bet on it.
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I went back and looked at all of the champions in the last 10 years and every last one of them including the Mavs 2011 team with the exception of Lebron's Cavs had 2 ingredients:

  • At least one all star player
  • At least one all defensive player 
For our 2011 squad that was Tyson Chandler and Dirk. 

We do not have that second ingredient on this roster right now. It was supposed to be KP but he is not it. The Mavs need to find out how to get a guy like that on the roster if they want to be legit. 

The Lebron team that won it against Golden St. the year Draymond got suspended had Lebron on it who is elite on defense when he wants to be so that year is the only exception. Take that how you want. 

The Mavs need to reshape this entire roster and although I am a big fan of Lavine he is one of multiple pieces needed on this team.
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(05-31-2021, 09:05 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: I’d build around Luka, DFS and Maxi

Brunson, KP and J Rich available in trade

Hardaway probably back unless our trades net players that replace him and we needed the space or something. 

All the other players including the rookies are available if necessary for matching or trade assets. The only thing I’m not touching is the FRP’s. Saving them

Just bring in the highest quality 2-way players we can find

I agree that Hardaway is probably back. JR is definitely gone and there's no guarantee Mavs will be able to find a trade partner for him. With KP I am ab 95% now that he is gone.

Brunson is a guy I agree should be available for the right trade as much as I like him and his contract is one of the big reasons why. If he was locked into a multi-year deal I might think differently.

For KP I am hovering around a GSW or SA trade (DR S&T) as reasonable options.
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(05-31-2021, 08:39 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: I am ready to trade this entire team sans Luka.


100%. 

And that is NOT a knee jerk position. Looking at the data from the entire season AND last season there is NO ONE on this team that should be off limits moving forward except Luka.

KEEPER:
  • Luka

NICE TO HAVE (at current salary) BUT ON TRADE BLOCK:
  • DFS
  • THJ (at $14M or less)
  • JB
  • WCS
  • Boban (at vet min)
  • Melli (at vet min)
  • JJR (at vet min)
  • JG
  • TT 
  • Bey

MOVE ON IF YOU CAN:
  • Maxi
  • DP

NEEDS TO GO:
  • KP
  • JR
  • TB
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Everything must go! Mavs need a giant blow up gorilla on the top of the AAC!
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They need to get rid of all their slow-footed defenders that can't guard the P & R. (sorry Maxi, Melli, and KP)  They need faster more athletic wings and bigs.  A great example, Bam Adebayo.
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(05-31-2021, 09:39 AM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: I went back and looked at all of the champions in the last 10 years and every last one of them including the Mavs 2011 team with the exception of Lebron's Cavs had 2 ingredients:

  • At least one all star player
  • At least one all defensive player 
For our 2011 squad that was Tyson Chandler and Dirk. 

We do not have that second ingredient on this roster right now. It was supposed to be KP but he is not it. The Mavs need to find out how to get a guy like that on the roster if they want to be legit. 

The Lebron team that won it against Golden St. the year Draymond got suspended had Lebron on it who is elite on defense when he wants to be so that year is the only exception. Take that how you want. 

The Mavs need to reshape this entire roster and although I am a big fan of Lavine he is one of multiple pieces needed on this team.

You mean at least two All-Star level players, often three, sometimes four.

LeBron, Wade, Bosh
LeBron, Wade, Bosh
Kawhi, Parker, Duncan (Ginobili)
Curry, Thompson, Green
LeBron, Kyrie, Love
Curry, Durant, Thompson, Green
Curry, Durant, Thompson, Green
Kawhi, Lowry, Siakam (Gasol)
LeBron, Davis, (Rondo)

...

Doncic, THJ, DFS

I mean seriously.
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(05-31-2021, 10:27 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: You mean at least two All-Star level players, often three, sometimes four.

LeBron, Wade, Bosh
LeBron, Wade, Bosh
Kawhi, Parker, Duncan (Ginobili)
Curry, Thompson, Green
LeBron, Kyrie, Love
Curry, Durant, Thompson, Green
Curry, Durant, Thompson, Green
Kawhi, Lowry, Siakam (Gasol)
LeBron, Davis, (Rondo)

...

Doncic, THJ, DFS

I mean seriously.

Like I said I went back 10 years which covers the 2011 squad Mavericks. That team had 1 all star and 1 all defensive player in Chandler.
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(05-30-2021, 03:05 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: How? DFS and Brunson will be free agents and if you want to keep them they will get a big raise. Luka will get a max and qualifies for all available kickers. I expect a Rose rule deal starting in the 34.5-35m range (4/155-156m, 5th year player option 46m)

DFS and Brunson are nice players. and so is Kleber. We have a roster full of nice solid players on value deals. If you want to get premium talent in a trade, you are going to have to include some of those guys and they certainly will dump those guys or use them in SNT for better talent. 

I for one expect Brunson to be dealt this summer before they have to pay him an extension. He's got legit value but can't really start here.

(05-31-2021, 09:34 AM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: I am almost willing to bet you that KP will be traded and it won't be for John Collins. The Hawks have Collins replacement already on the roster and adding 30 million dollars to the payroll makes no sense. 

KP will be traded and I willing to bet on it.

I'm not saying he will be traded for Collins. I'm saying that's the type of trade tho that will happen. I'd be willing to bet we aren't dumping him to anyone for salary relief or a crappy 1st.
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(05-31-2021, 10:27 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: You mean at least two All-Star level players, often three, sometimes four.

LeBron, Wade, Bosh
LeBron, Wade, Bosh
Kawhi, Parker, Duncan (Ginobili)
Curry, Thompson, Green
LeBron, Kyrie, Love
Curry, Durant, Thompson, Green
Curry, Durant, Thompson, Green
Kawhi, Lowry, Siakam (Gasol)
LeBron, Davis, (Rondo)

...

Doncic, THJ, DFS

I mean seriously.

You are both right.
The argument of having multiple good scorer is valid, no need to elaborate more. 
But I have talked about having a "go to" type of defensive player, someone who sets your defense and to rely on. Every championship team in past decade(s) had someone or two who were contender for DPOY at some point.
Lakers had AD and Lebron (6 times all defensive teams), Raptors had Kawhi/Gasol who own it, and Ibaka (3 all defensive team, was contender for DPOY during that time), GSW had Green and Iggy (2 times defensive team of the year) 
Spurs had Kawhi, in addition to ancient Duncan, Miami had prime Lebron and Wade, Dallas had TC and ancient Kidd. Lakers had Kobe and Artist in one of the last two, Celtics had KG, Spurs had prime TD in 99/03/05/07 and Bowen , Miami had Wade along ancient Payton and Morning, Detroit had Ben Wallace (do I need to say more). 
Only Cavs and Lakers from that list had one player with Defensive team of the year appearance in his career. 

That is why I was really hopeful to go after Gobert if he was not renewing. 

So yeah, we need another elite scorer, but we need elite defender too. 
Happened that teams won with one elite scorer (2011 Mavs) but didn't happen you lacked elite defenders.
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I can buy we need to get an elite defensive player but that's not something we are getting in FA this summer. 

And to be fair the Mavs were all in on Covington last offseason but got trumped by the extra 1st by Portland. (that's an insane price btw)

I do like the idea of signing Otto Porter still on the cheap. He was a pretty good defender at one point and is an efficient shooter.
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(05-31-2021, 01:24 PM)khaled1987 Wrote: You are both right.
The argument of having multiple good scorer is valid, no need to elaborate more. 
But I have talked about having a "go to" type of defensive player, someone who sets your defense and to rely on. Every championship team in past decade(s) had someone or two who were contender for DPOY at some point.
Lakers had AD and Lebron (6 times all defensive teams), Raptors had Kawhi/Gasol who own it, and Ibaka (3 all defensive team, was contender for DPOY during that time), GSW had Green and Iggy (2 times defensive team of the year) 
Spurs had Kawhi, in addition to ancient Duncan, Miami had prime Lebron and Wade, Dallas had TC and ancient Kidd. Lakers had Kobe and Artist in one of the last two, Celtics had KG, Spurs had prime TD in 99/03/05/07 and Bowen , Miami had Wade along ancient Payton and Morning, Detroit had Ben Wallace (do I need to say more). 
Only Cavs and Lakers from that list had one player with Defensive team of the year appearance in his career. 

That is why I was really hopeful to go after Gobert if he was not renewing. 

So yeah, we need another elite scorer, but we need elite defender too. 
Happened that teams won with one elite scorer (2011 Mavs) but didn't happen you lacked elite defenders.

Probably on the right track. I would say that it isn´t about one lockdown on ball defender or elite rim protection. The intangibles are important. Communication, coaching on the court, calling out opposing plays and more. Call it leadership, winning culture, defensive identity or something else. Doesn´t matter. The Mavs don´t have it. Elite teams do.
Obviously also helps if the mentioned guy is a really good individual defender.
Good example: We mentioned it in another topic. Rondo (hate the guy) is calling out Mavs plays. Mavs absolutely killed the Clippers with variations of spain pick and roll when Beverley was on the floor. Made the wrong switch/rotation every single time. Did not happen once with Rondo on the floor. Already knows what is happening when Luka is dribbling up the floor and sets up the Clippers defense.
That´s the CP3 effect in Phoenix. That´s what turned Wiggins into a good defender (Draymond coaching on the floor). That´s what the Mavs had when Jason Kidd was on the floor in 2011.
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(05-31-2021, 01:45 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Probably on the right track. I would say that it isn´t about one lockdown on ball defender or elite rim protection. The intangibles are important. Communication, coaching on the court, calling out opposing plays and more. Call it leadership, winning culture, defensive identity or something else. Doesn´t matter. The Mavs don´t have it. Elite teams do.
Obviously also helps if the mentioned guy is a really good individual defender.

Exactly this.
And look at all the names I mentioned,  and look at the Mavs.
The best we got is Maxi and DFS, who was abused by Kawhi and PG this series, and not a leader on defensive end.
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(05-31-2021, 10:03 AM)Kammrath Wrote: 100%. 

And that is NOT a knee jerk position. Looking at the data from the entire season AND last season there is NO ONE on this team that should be off limits moving forward except Luka.

KEEPER:
  • Luka

NICE TO HAVE (at current salary) BUT ON TRADE BLOCK:
  • DFS
  • THJ (at $14M or less)
  • JB
  • WCS
  • Boban (at vet min)
  • Melli (at vet min)
  • JJR (at vet min)
  • JG
  • TT 
  • Bey

MOVE ON IF YOU CAN:
  • Maxi
  • DP

NEEDS TO GO:
  • KP
  • JR
  • TB
Nothing of this matters as long as we keep the competitive disadvantage at the decision making positions. 

We need a new GM and coach. Everything stands and falls with that. Our guys aren’t good enough anymore. 

We’re 96 minutes away from the tenth consecutive season of lottery/1st round playoff basketball. 

These guys had all the time and resources in the world but couldn’t get the job done in a long time.
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(05-31-2021, 01:24 PM)khaled1987 Wrote: You are both right.
The argument of having multiple good scorer is valid, no need to elaborate more. 
But I have talked about having a "go to" type of defensive player, someone who sets your defense and to rely on. Every championship team in past decade(s) had someone or two who were contender for DPOY at some point.
Lakers had AD and Lebron (6 times all defensive teams), Raptors had Kawhi/Gasol who own it, and Ibaka (3 all defensive team, was contender for DPOY during that time), GSW had Green and Iggy (2 times defensive team of the year) 
Spurs had Kawhi, in addition to ancient Duncan, Miami had prime Lebron and Wade, Dallas had TC and ancient Kidd. Lakers had Kobe and Artist in one of the last two, Celtics had KG, Spurs had prime TD in 99/03/05/07 and Bowen , Miami had Wade along ancient Payton and Morning, Detroit had Ben Wallace (do I need to say more). 
Only Cavs and Lakers from that list had one player with Defensive team of the year appearance in his career. 

That is why I was really hopeful to go after Gobert if he was not renewing. 

So yeah, we need another elite scorer, but we need elite defender too. 
Happened that teams won with one elite scorer (2011 Mavs) but didn't happen you lacked elite defenders.

Miles Turner averaged over 3 blocks this year and I keep trying to convince myself that he is worth taking a chance on. I hate his rebounding numbers and hate that he plays soft sometimes, but do you think Miles Turner is worth taking a flyer on? I love his contract too BTW. He seems like a guy that could flirt with an all defensive team at some point. 

Of the players available this offseason, Myles Turner is probably the most realistic target.
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Unless this front office does a 540 (cause a 180 is not enough) on how they operate, they will go nowhere and after 2-3 more 1st round/2nd round exits, Luka will leave.

They will keep Porzingis, cause you can´t lose the trade. They will retain THJ for the same reason and also why overcomplicate things, when you have a summer vacation to plan. They´ll probably contract dump Richardson or Powell for more future 2nd round picks, only to sign a worse player in free agency. Been there, done that.
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Regardless of the final result of the series i think we could call this season as successful. This season we take step further, but this season also shows some weaknesses of this team and puts FO before some serius questions.

First, this series against Clippers showed us that this team have a tremendous talent and is capable of beating everyone. But it also showing us that we are living and dying with 3 point shooting. When 3 point attemps are not falling we just don't have plan b on the court. Mainly when Luka is not hitting the 3.

Second problem there is lack of energy from the bench. Especially from PG position. I really like Brunson and i see him here longterm, but this series are showing us that he is more of undersized SG than a PG. When offense is good he will be good, but he is not type of a player who will come of the bench and with the energy and decisions change direction of the game.

Third problem is lack of experience in such games.

So in this offseason our FO will need to go through some serius questions.

1. Figure out what will do with KP. I still think his ceiling is a top 10 big men in the league, but for now we didn't figure out how can it works. He is terrible on defense and on the offense is inconsistent. I like his ceiling but overall, this season his impact on the court is more of 4-5 option on the team and not the max player.

His ceiling is unicorn, but our FO will need to decide if they will gamble on his ceiling another season or they will be put on the trade block.
I still believe in his potential and succes and in my opinion key to unlock him is putting a right power forward/center next to him.
And that is putting us to second topic.

2. Unbalanced big lineup in the roster. With Boban (3.5), WCS (4), Melli (4), Powell (10), Maxi (8) we are spending almost 30 milions of cap space on the players, where only 1 of them is playing or is having impact in this series. And i don't see none of them as the starting big men who can be KP starting partner in the lineup. So changes in this positions could be crucial beacuse if find a right player, that could also unlock a KP.

So in my opinion our FO will need to decide:

- Boban (at a vet. min) as a key to lockeroom chemistry or. WCS?
- Kleber defense & shooting or Powell?
- Let Melli walk in FA and give a chance to Bey (with getting a starting 4-5).

So main question there needs to be who will be put on the trade block. Kleber or Powell?

And also put a question what a player we will be looking in trades. So watching this series and minutes Powell played i'm not so high on Holmes like some others. In my opinion is just too similar to Powell who is not playing this series. I would be perfectly happy if we could get one of the Turbonis duo there. Bam and Draymond wouldn't be bad either  Smile

3. THJ extension for right price.

4. Question 3 is third star, secondary ballhandler or just a bench point guard?

First we will need to see what will J-Rich do with a player option. I don't see him here longterm, but if opts in what could a package of Powell/Kleber + J-Rich get us? 

And the second question there will be (assuming FA stars are gone) is where they se Brunson? As a bench point guard or a player who will share minutes with THJ on the 2? With Green getting some of J-Rich minutes and then looking for a other PG or a secondary ballhandler.
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