2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[Jason Terry]

So, let's follow through with this.  BTW, if you assume JRich is nothing more than Finney's backup, then that is a role Green can grow into.

Something I've said when thinking about big dollar RFA's is you have to watch out for BYC.  The sending team only gets to use 1/2 of the outgoing salary, but all of the incoming salary counts.  Hard to bridge the $14mm gap on a $28mm max.  But, if you think about someone making in the mid teens, then JRich matches anything from $13.2mm to $16.6mm.  At $16.6mm, $11.6mm is within range of both $16.6mm and $8.3mm.  At $13.2mm, $11.6mm matches both the $13.2mm and the $6.6mm.

So, to your point, you could work over the cap and get any kind of FA in the $13-$16 million range via sign and trade with JRich (even a RFA) and use the Full MLE to fill another hole.  Something like:

KP/DP/WCS
Maxi/New
DFS/Green
THJ/New
Luka/Brunson

BTW, this would be a way to get Markkanen for more than the MLE if you assume Chicago has a use for JRich...which I think they do.  It adds to salary, but they could buy out Satoransky for $1mm instead of cutting him for $5mm and Dallas would make up that salary by using the MLE on Satoransky.  

KP/DP/WCS
Maxi/Markkanen
DFS/Green
THJ/Sato
Luka/Brunson

This is just an example.  Suddenly, that bench doesn't need KP and Luka to platoon and there is plenty of O among the backups to crush most benches.  This still doesn't make Markkanen a starter, but it does get him some money.  

Personally, I'd rather use the MLE on Theis and do the JRich deal for a better secondary ball handler.  What about WCS and JRich together to Charlotte and bring back Graham.  Or, maybe think bigger.  That combo can get you to the $20mm range of FA's.  The trick is finding the team that thinks JRich and Willie for a year (and maybe a second) is better than losing their guy for nothing.  Norman Powell?  Dinwiddie? Fournier? Gary Trent Jr.?  Portland, Brooklyn, Toronto and Boston could all use guys like that and it would be hard for Duffy to get too mad if you are sending his guy Richardson to a playoff team.

This has made sense for awhile. Options picked up on JR and WCS. Re-sign THJ..........gives us great RFA matching ability or offseason or in-season trade ammo. Also able to trade KP if it makes sense at any time.........bring in two good players with the MLE and BAE. Which could be used for future trades instead of current players. 

All of which could be done pre-FA which lets us shop for deals. We end up with more talent than going under the cap. 

Then once our business is done and we’re just under the tax line we extend all 3 of Luka, DFS and Brunson. 

Luka/Dragic-MLE
THJ/Brunson
DFS/JRich/Green
Maxi/Millsap-BAE
KP/DP/WCS

^better than what we currently have

Alternatives? It’s really just Kawhi, Conley, Lowry, CP3 and Collins(for free) that make sense and these guys are extremely unlikely to have interest. Any lesser players then it makes more sense to stay over the cap and possibly add a SnT like you said. 

MLE steals: Markkanen, Dragic, Caruso, Oladipo, Fournier, Batum, THT, OPJ, DJJ, Theis, Portis 

Plenty of decent backup 4’s in the BAE range: Bjelica, Millsap, Tucker and Gay

Could add guys like that and even do a SnT for someone like Graham, Holmes, Powell etc

[cjeter24]

@"cjeter24" you are more optimistic than I am. Lowry I think is Heat-bound. Conley will stay. I love the idea of DeRozan but my guess is he and the Mavs won't see themselves as a match. Especially with THJ looking more and more like he's staying there isn't the space for DR anyway.

The most realistic old guy is going to be Dragic. He's a fit on the court, buds with Luka, same agent, all that good stuff and I think Heat won't pick up his TO as they hunt for bigger fish (ie Lowry).

I think Lowry is most likely Heat bound too. But it may come down to money. 

Heat have a lot of people to pay and to build out that roster. Do they sell out to sign Lowry to a huge deal if it becomes a bidding war? 

I do think most likely result is that the Mavs don't get anyone of worth in FA this summer. Not because they just strike out but just because of the lack of free agents. The most likely result seems to rarely happen in FA tho. and we have no idea who wants to play here or not. I wouldn't have suspected LM was looking to land here but the report is he is. 

I guess what I'm saying is I'm not getting hyped for getting a major piece this summer. But I think that we still could.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Question for Step Back and Jet...since both mentioned Dragic.

Let’s say we ship out JRich and get a frontcourt player.  MLE to Dragic or MLE to Monk?

I don’t believe Charlotte will retain his cap hold making him UFA.  It is absolutely true that he had a good couple of months.  But, Dragic is starting to tail off.  His experience in the playoffs might help, but he’s one and done at best.  Monk has upside and could be here for years if he works out.

[BasketballJones41]

https://twitter.com/luka7doncic/status/1...16482?s=21
Luka recruiting?

[Jason Terry]

Question for Step Back and Jet...since both mentioned Dragic.

Let’s say we ship out JRich and get a frontcourt player.  MLE to Dragic or MLE to Monk?

I don’t believe Charlotte will retain his cap hold making him UFA.  It is absolutely true that he had a good couple of months.  But, Dragic is starting to tail off.  His experience in the playoffs might help, but he’s one and done at best.  Monk has upside and could be here for years if he works out.

I meant to add Monk to the MLE steal list. I like both. IMO, Brunson(THJ also) gives us position flex. We could bring in the BPA 1-3 player and make it work. Brunson could start or come off the bench(THJ too). Brunson is more of a undersized combo guard is my point. And i don’t think any of our guys will be upset coming off the bench once we pay everyone. For me it’s BPA

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

With Lauri saying he wants to be a Mav, I'm going with a Lauri-Holmes front court for the next 4 years.

Lauri, Sato and draft considerations incoming and KP outgoing. Find a third team to for KP.

Lineup should be:
SF DFS/Green
PF Lauri/Maxi/Melli
C Holmes/DP
G THJ/Sato/Burke
G Luka/Brunson


Lauri is a mobile big, it's just his lateral isn't too good. But on offense, he has the quickness, the athletic ability and the handles to not only attack close outs, but also score in his own, unassisted, whether going to the basket, a pull up for a jumper or a shoot a fadeaway.  I trust him to make 6 dribbles than I do KP with 4. For a big, Lauri can go anywhere he wants.

Lauri isn't a rim roller, and he doesn't need to be specially if Mavs can employ Holmes to do that and retain Powell. Lauri will probably be in a lot of pick and pop situations with Luka, and that would be lethal, but who says Lauri can't roll hard to the basket? He probably is quicker than DP and most likely with the same jump or higher. Luka would make him better.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I meant to add Monk to the MLE steal list. I like both. IMO, Brunson(THJ also) gives us position flex. We could bring in the BPA 1-3 player and make it work. Brunson could start or come off the bench(THJ too). Brunson is more of a undersized combo guard is my point. And i don’t think any of our guys will be upset coming off the bench once we pay everyone. For me it’s BPA

BTW, from your previous post, Holmes probably wouldn't be available in S&T if we assume he will make greater than the NBA average salary.  Sac doesn't currently have a way to get there.  If we indeed have interest in Markkanen, then Holmes to Charlotte forces them to let go of Monk's hold.  

Fish has added his voice to the discussion.  Doesn't advance the ball, just points out LM was liked in his draft and now fits the "fallen angel" moniker.  It also says he's a friend of Luka's and is a huge fan of Dirk.  There are all sorts of other stories out there.  None really advance the ball any from the original reporting, though there is a Pippen Ain't Easy "3 Trades" piece that says Chicago would value Richardson.


[/url]





Bulls' Markkanen Aims To Join Mavs, Team With Luka & Porzingis?
The Mavs have cap room and have some level of admiration for Markkanen ... and he apparently feels the same.
[url=https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/author/mike-fisher-dallas-mavericks-maven-sports-illustrated]MIKE FISHER7 HOURS AGO




DALLAS - It is the vision of the people who run the Dallas Mavericks that a) Luka Doncic will serve as a recruiting lure of other NBA standouts and that b) the combination of Luka and Kristaps Porzingis can be especially elite if it makes up two-thirds of a "Big Three.''

Does Lauri Markkanen's reported desire to leave the Chicago Bulls for Dallas fulfill the vision?

According to Joe Cowley of the Chicago Sun-Times, the Finnish forward, who hits NBA restricted free agency this summer, wants to play alongside fellow Europeans Doncic and Porzingis in Dallas.

The 7-0 Markkanen, 24, has spent four seasons with the Bulls, never quite living up to the expectations that came along with being the No. 7 overall pick in his draft. This year, his numbers were not especially impressive -he averaged a career-low 13.6 points with a career-low 5.3 rebounds, meaning maybe his price will also be at a low - and has not achieved stardom.

But he can shoot from the perimeter and he fits the "Fallen Angel'' beliefs of Mavs owner Mark Cuban, who openly talks of the value of reclamation projects involving talented players ... especially ones who are 7-0 and who are 24 and who were admired by Dallas in their draft years.

Markkanen is all of those things, and already has a friendship with Doncic (not to mention one with retired Mavs icon Dirk Nowitzki). The Bulls do not seem to see him as a starter, and maybe the Mavs do not, either - that is to say, a starter in the same lineup with KP, and a starter on a title contender.

But the Mavs have cap room and have some level of admiration for Markkanen ... and he apparently feels the same. 

[DanSchwartzgan]

With Lauri saying he wants to be a Mav, I'm going with a Lauri-Holmes front court for the next 4 years.

Lauri, Sato and draft considerations incoming and KP outgoing. Find a third team to for KP.

Lineup should be:
SF DFS/Green
PF Lauri/Maxi/Melli
C Holmes/DP
G THJ/Sato/Burke
G Luka/Brunson


Lauri is a mobile big, it's just his lateral isn't too good. But on offense, he has the quickness, the athletic ability and the handles to not only attack close outs, but also score in his own, unassisted, whether going to the basket, a pull up for a jumper or a shoot a fadeaway.  I trust him to make 6 dribbles than I do KP with 4. For a big, Lauri can go anywhere he wants.

Lauri isn't a rim roller, and he doesn't need to be specially if Mavs can employ Holmes to do that and retain Powell. Lauri will probably be in a lot of pick and pop situations with Luka, and that would be lethal, but who says Lauri can't roll hard to the basket? He probably is quicker than DP and most likely with the same jump or higher. Luka would make him better.

I don't think you trade KP for something you can get for free.  Chicago has NO interest in retaining Markkanen.  If you want to go the Holmes/LM route, you do it with cap room and trade KP for a guard/wing.  You are right about his ball handling.  

As many have posted, Holmes/Powell at C, LM/Maxi at PF, DFS/Green at "wing defender" and a rotation of Luka, Brunson and the star guard you get from the KP trade is young and good.  Now, we just need to find that deal for KP that works for the other team (McCollum?).

[StepBackJay]

Question for Step Back and Jet...since both mentioned Dragic.

Let’s say we ship out JRich and get a frontcourt player.  MLE to Dragic or MLE to Monk?

I don’t believe Charlotte will retain his cap hold making him UFA.  It is absolutely true that he had a good couple of months.  But, Dragic is starting to tail off.  His experience in the playoffs might help, but he’s one and done at best.  Monk has upside and could be here for years if he works out.

I think Mavs tend to stay away from guys with drug issues, at least hard drugs. Dragic seems like a very real possibility just bc of all the reasons we've listed. Even if he is tailing off he could be like a late career JJB piece off the bench. I think what's good ab Dragic is that he's a ball mover and gamer in the playoffs.

[StepBackJay]

Fish has added his voice to the discussion.  Doesn't advance the ball, just points out LM was liked in his draft and now fits the "fallen angel" moniker.  It also says he's a friend of Luka's and is a huge fan of Dirk.  

So this is an interesting article because it seems to put LM in a cheaper tier of FA than I would have expected. I figured LM would at least get "starter" money based on decent production, upside and age.

Seeing some trade ideas:
https://pippenainteasy.com/2021/05/22/bu...-dallas/2/

I really like the JR/LM swap idea the best. Bulls do not want to let LM walk for nothing after drafting him so high. If they get JR or a player of that tier who is a good fit and potential starter, then it will not be a total disaster.

For Mavs getting LM for JR would be great imo, especially if he understands he is not guaranteed a starting spot. That would mean Mavs get the MLE they could use for Dragic and maybe save the BAE for a rainy day.

Rotation could be something like:

Luka/Dragic
THJ/Brunson
DFS/Green
Powell/WCS
KP/Markkanen/Maxi

The question is which bigs to play together and whether or not one of the bigs becomes disposable. KP, LM, Maxi all sort of play the 4 spot. KP only plays 4 on offense really. I think Maxi and LM could play together off the bench if Mavs want to play 5 out or you could start Maxi and play LM, Powell together. LM + KP would probably be the most awkward pairing. LM might be wasted a little bit if he is only a catch and shoot guy with the starting lineup and on defense he isn't going to be as good with rotations as a Maxi.

To me I like LM like I like Gallo which is you forward shooter off the bench. If you are able to get him and Dragic I think that would be a pretty good offseason bc you have a very solid 9 man rotation at a minimum when everyone is healthy. Mavs would have a lot of bigs but LM would help offset KP rest days to provide you quality there. Dragic is not a guy you need to overuse during the regular season. Green still has a chance to get steady rotation minutes with the loss of J Rich.

[haveitall]

So this is an interesting article because it seems to put LM in a cheaper tier of FA than I would have expected. I figured LM would at least get "starter" money based on decent production, upside and age.

Seeing some trade ideas:
https://pippenainteasy.com/2021/05/22/bu...-dallas/2/

I really like the JR/LM swap idea the best. Bulls do not want to let LM walk for nothing after drafting him so high. If they get JR or a player of that tier who is a good fit and potential starter, then it will not be a total disaster.

For Mavs getting LM for JR would be great imo, especially if he understands he is not guaranteed a starting spot. That would mean Mavs get the MLE they could use for Dragic and maybe save the BAE for a rainy day.

Rotation could be something like:

Luka/Dragic
THJ/Brunson
DFS/Green
Powell/WCS
KP/Markkanen/Maxi

The question is which bigs to play together and whether or not one of the bigs becomes disposable. KP, LM, Maxi all sort of play the 4 spot. KP only plays 4 on offense really. I think Maxi and LM could play together off the bench if Mavs want to play 5 out or you could start Maxi and play LM, Powell together. LM + KP would probably be the most awkward pairing. LM might be wasted a little bit if he is only a catch and shoot guy with the starting lineup and on defense he isn't going to be as good with rotations as a Maxi.

To me I like LM like I like Gallo which is you forward shooter off the bench. If you are able to get him and Dragic I think that would be a pretty good offseason bc you have a very solid 9 man rotation at a minimum when everyone is healthy. Mavs would have a lot of bigs but LM would help offset KP rest days to provide you quality there. Dragic is not a guy you need to overuse during the regular season. Green still has a chance to get steady rotation minutes with the loss of J Rich.

Gragic is too old.  I wouldn't give any of Brunson's minutes to Dragic.  I like Markkanen as a buy low type of player but I wouldn't give up anything for him.  I think what this team needs is a pick and roll big and the ideal player is John Collins or Holmes.  I think everyone is underestimating J Rich, maybe because everyone thought he would be an all star when he got here.  He is a solid rotation player.  I would try to get either Sabonis or Turner from Indiana.  They are going nowhere.  How about Brunson, Porzingis, JRICH + picks for Sabonis and turner?

Luka
THJ
DFS
Sabonis
Turner

[mvossman]

So this is an interesting article because it seems to put LM in a cheaper tier of FA than I would have expected. I figured LM would at least get "starter" money based on decent production, upside and age.

Seeing some trade ideas:
https://pippenainteasy.com/2021/05/22/bu...-dallas/2/

I really like the JR/LM swap idea the best. Bulls do not want to let LM walk for nothing after drafting him so high. If they get JR or a player of that tier who is a good fit and potential starter, then it will not be a total disaster.

For Mavs getting LM for JR would be great imo, especially if he understands he is not guaranteed a starting spot. That would mean Mavs get the MLE they could use for Dragic and maybe save the BAE for a rainy day.

Rotation could be something like:

Luka/Dragic
THJ/Brunson
DFS/Green
Powell/WCS
KP/Markkanen/Maxi

The question is which bigs to play together and whether or not one of the bigs becomes disposable. KP, LM, Maxi all sort of play the 4 spot. KP only plays 4 on offense really. I think Maxi and LM could play together off the bench if Mavs want to play 5 out or you could start Maxi and play LM, Powell together. LM + KP would probably be the most awkward pairing. LM might be wasted a little bit if he is only a catch and shoot guy with the starting lineup and on defense he isn't going to be as good with rotations as a Maxi.

To me I like LM like I like Gallo which is you forward shooter off the bench. If you are able to get him and Dragic I think that would be a pretty good offseason bc you have a very solid 9 man rotation at a minimum when everyone is healthy. Mavs would have a lot of bigs but LM would help offset KP rest days to provide you quality there. Dragic is not a guy you need to overuse during the regular season. Green still has a chance to get steady rotation minutes with the loss of J Rich.

That's the same starting lineup as last year.  Great offensively, but barely average defensively.  The FO recognized the need for improved defense and several moves have been made with that in mind (JRich trade, Green and Bey picks, Maxi to starting lineup).  Maybe they have decided to move away from a focus on defense, but I would surprised (and disappointed) if our big moves were offense only backup players.

[JamesConway]

If Markkanen wants to come here I’d make it happen. Imo he’s still easily a player with allstar type upside. 

He’s the next Randle/LaVine type of FA that somebody will pick up and see turn into an allstar. The guy oozes with potential. Chicago crapped the bed with him. 

The fit with KP is bad but that’s a player you Imo have to sign.

[BasketballJones41]

If Markkanen wants to come here I’d make it happen. Imo he’s still easily a player with allstar type upside. 

He’s the next Randle/LaVine type of FA that somebody will pick up and see turn into an allstar. The guy oozes with potential. Chicago crapped the bed with him. 

The fit with KP is bad but that’s a player you Imo have to sign.

+41
Also I don’t think Markkanen is a lost cause on defense. He’s a very quick and mobile big. I see no reason why Rick couldn’t turn him into an average to good defender. If that happens plus KP quits being gun shy and actually starts playing defense like he’s capable of again, assuming he still has the gear, then look out. Because a Luka/KP/LM trio would be lethal and impossible to guard offensively. I can’t even fathom what Luka would do if he had 2 7 foot snipers out there running with him. In the limited opportunities I’ve had to watch the Bulls I’ve also seen Markkanen be a very good role/pop man. Especially when he’s running it with Sato. So again I imagine how much better he’d be with Luka. 

And as we’ve learned in past free agencies, wanting to be here counts for a lot. If he wants to play here, I think we have to pick him up. If his pairing with KP just doesn’t work we can always trade one of them later.

[StepBackJay]

Gragic is too old.  I wouldn't give any of Brunson's minutes to Dragic.  I like Markkanen as a buy low type of player but I wouldn't give up anything for him.  I think what this team needs is a pick and roll big and the ideal player is John Collins or Holmes.  I think everyone is underestimating J Rich, maybe because everyone thought he would be an all star when he got here.  He is a solid rotation player.  I would try to get either Sabonis or Turner from Indiana.  They are going nowhere.  How about Brunson, Porzingis, JRICH + picks for Sabonis and turner?

Luka
THJ
DFS
Sabonis
Turner

Dragic would take J Rich's minutes. Dragic is more of a ball-mover and would play well with Brunson. Both players can be the primary or secondary ball handler. For JM you aren't giving anything up other than J Rich who is probably leaving anyway.

I like lots of Pacers players, just don't know where their head is at. Also I feel like Mavs are going to try to give it a go with KP one more year but that could change. It really depends on how he performs in these playoffs and whether or not they think an offseason will fix the defensive issues he's had this year.

[StepBackJay]

That's the same starting lineup as last year.  Great offensively, but barely average defensively.  The FO recognized the need for improved defense and several moves have been made with that in mind (JRich trade, Green and Bey picks, Maxi to starting lineup).  Maybe they have decided to move away from a focus on defense, but I would surprised (and disappointed) if our big moves were offense only backup players.

So there's something to be said for continuity. I think Rick would decide the best starting 5 where starting PF/C next to KP would be the biggest question again. THJ seems to me to be the starter going forward so then you try to fill some holes on the bench and run it back. For sure it would be great to have a defensive upgrade but Green long-term needs to be part of the answer there. The other piece is KP either getting back to form or be traded.

Mavs can try to pick up another defensive guy for like BAE (Avery Bradley is my favorite target if you could get him for that price). There probably isn't a sure thing 2 way player guard or wing that Mavs can get. That's why we need Green to grow into a regular rotation player.

[Kammrath]

Mavs getting LM for JR would be great imo,

AMEN. 

If the Mavs can salvage a shot with someone like LM for JR that is a HOMERUN move.

[mvossman]

So there's something to be said for continuity. I think Rick would decide the best starting 5 where starting PF/C next to KP would be the biggest question again. THJ seems to me to be the starter going forward so then you try to fill some holes on the bench and run it back. For sure it would be great to have a defensive upgrade but Green long-term needs to be part of the answer there. The other piece is KP either getting back to form or be traded.

Mavs can try to pick up another defensive guy for like BAE (Avery Bradley is my favorite target if you could get him for that price). There probably isn't a sure thing 2 way player guard or wing that Mavs can get. That's why we need Green to grow into a regular rotation player.

There is a fine line between continuity and stagnation.  I understand the desire/thinking to bring THJ back, but I just don't see a starting core of KP/Luka/DFS/THJ being good enough defensively to contend, and by bringing THJ back you have greatly limited any chance to improve that core in the last free agency period they can operate in for a while.

This all assumes we are not trading KP.  Trading KP changes everything.  Then you can get a defensive rim running center and possibly a 2 way shooting guard to offset the defensive limitations of Luka and THJ.  

Regardless of what we do, it's hard to see the LM fit.  He is a poor man's KP in every way.  There would have to be some major changes in the roster for that to make any sense.  I would probably rather have Theis right now as we could really use some toughness in the frontcourt.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Lauri Markannen has the most beautiful/natural jump shot stroke I've ever seen from a 7 footer.  (yes...including Dirk)

No idea how to make him work here but I'd be excited about the possibility of adding him and subtracting KP.

1.  turn Richardson into Markannen and Satoransky
2.  turn KP into Brogdon
3.  give THJ money to Holmes

profit?


Luka/Brunson
Brogdon/Satoransky
DFS/Green
Markannen/Maxi
Holmes/Powell

[mvossman]

Lauri Markannen has the most beautiful/natural jump shot stroke I've ever seen from a 7 footer.  (yes...including Dirk)

No idea how to make him work here but I'd be excited about the possibility of adding him and subtracting KP.

1.  turn Richardson into Markannen and Satoransky
2.  turn KP into Brogdon
3.  give THJ money to Holmes

profit?


Luka/Brunson
Brogdon/Satoransky
DFS/Green
Markannen/Maxi
Holmes/Powell

Yep, those would be the steps necessary for LM to make any kind of sense here.  To be honest, I would be way more excited about turning KP into Brogdon/Holmes.  At that point I would probably rather just keep THJ depending on cost.