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2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived
(05-10-2021, 10:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: A) the two absolutely cannot be played together, and B) that's potentially a ton of money to spend on two guys who play the same role.


I agree but I also see it more as committing 30M (if we signed Holmes to 15 and kept WCS at 3) to the roll position/defensive anchor (although Powell isn't exactly an anchor).  30M is 1 million less than we're currently paying....someone who's salary would have to be "reallocated" to make this dream a reality.


(05-10-2021, 10:21 PM)mvossman Wrote: I feel like putting a rim runner on the court with KP takes away one of his most useful/unique skills (pulling centers to the three point line) but pushing him out to the 4 on defense would truly crater his value.


If we commit more money/roster space to rollers it would definitely be because KP is on his way out.

Kind of seems like the feeling is mutual...

https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1391846711002288135
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One thing I am pretty sure - there will be plenty of trading going on. Fans enjoy it and NBA dutifully delivers. Look at this: 

draft day trades 2019: 10
draft day trades 2020: 17

trade deadline trades 2019: 11
trade deadline trades 2020: 13
trade deadline trades 2021: 16
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(05-10-2021, 10:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I don't disagree. I think the resistance to this is that A) the two absolutely cannot be played together, and B) that's potentially a ton of money to spend on two guys who play the same role. 

But, if you can figure out how to do it without limiting your ability to complete the roster, then absolutely!
I mean $15 mil for Holmes plus $12 mil for Powell is less for 48 minutes of rim-running than we're currently paying for sometimes 20+ minutes of unicorn
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It's obvious even to KP. He knows a rim rolling big would have plenty of (easy) scoring opportunities in a Luka led offense. And he knows how good Dwight has been in that role lately. It's either KP starts rolling more, or he ends up as the third or even a fourth scoring option on a pick and roll play which features Luka and DP.

KP mentioned he and Dwight talk a lot on the court, and I would think DP has this high regard for KP, being the 2nd star on the team. Dwight's a team-first glue guy, he would care less about his stats and/or PT as long as they are winning. And he knows involving KP would help. So they can make it work, its up to the coaching staff to help them make it work.

Now if the Mavs go for Holmes, this would be a different story. Holmes would want to be featured and would want his numbers. If the Mavs can't figure out KP and DP, that issue will be ten-fold with Holmes. Expect a KP trade if Holmes is a Mav.
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(05-11-2021, 08:51 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: The other option would be Maxi + Powell for Collins if you can do the 125% trade match on his first year. The issue with any of these deals is...

BYC.  Any deal where we get someone like Collins who gets a big raise needs to end with us having cap space.  Trade matching may or may not matter, but it isn’t a requirement.  Finishing the deal under the cap will be a requirement.

I tend to agree they would be interested in Maxi.  I don’t see the value of adding Powell considering what they already have in Atlanta.  I wonder what some kind of KP involved deal for Collins would look like?
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(05-11-2021, 09:46 AM)Branduil Wrote: I mean $15 mil for Holmes plus $12 mil for Powell is less for 48 minutes of rim-running than we're currently paying for sometimes 20+ minutes of unicorn


Great point. It gets easier to manage without KP's salary, for sure. But we don't even know what their plan is with that yet. Until we know differently, it's probably best to assume KP will be here.
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(05-11-2021, 08:57 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Am I the only one that is completly out on a Collins/KP pairing? Surefire way to build a bottom ten defense.

No. That would be rough, for sure. I'm in lockstep with you on this one.
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(05-11-2021, 10:11 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: It's obvious even to KP. He knows a rim rolling big would have plenty of (easy) scoring opportunities in a Luka led offense. And he knows how good Dwight has been in that role lately. It's either KP starts rolling more, or he ends up as the third or even a fourth scoring option on a pick and roll play which features Luka and DP.

KP mentioned he and Dwight talk a lot on the court, and I would think DP has this high regard for KP, being the 2nd star on the team. Dwight's a team-first glue guy, he would care less about his stats and/or PT as long as they are winning. And he knows involving KP would help. So they can make it work, its up to the coaching staff to help them make it work.

Now if the Mavs go for Holmes, this would be a different story. Holmes would want to be featured and would want his numbers. If the Mavs can't figure out KP and DP, that issue will be ten-fold with Holmes. Expect a KP trade if Holmes is a Mav.

Im all about Powell these days.   Love his effort, Love his attitude, Love his bball IQ.  Dookie with ball in his hands though.

I would prefer to have him on the team as long as he is earning close to his contract.

Obviously im not an asset manager.
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(05-11-2021, 08:57 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Am I the only one that is completly out on a Collins/KP pairing? Surefire way to build a bottom ten defense.

I think Mavs are into it tho. It's hard to tell what lineups they will be going with considering Maxi/KP injuries but seems like they settled on Powell/KP as the starting frontcourt at one point. Collins would be no worse than that. Also remember MBT believes KP will get back to his role as a defensive anchor (I realize this hasn't been the experience so far this season).
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(05-11-2021, 11:04 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: Powell/KP...Collins would be no worse than that.


High as I am on Collins, I have to disagree here. I think Powell is a pretty underrated defender in terms of how well he moves his feet and how intelligently he plays. I'm slightly less familiar with Collins (though I HAVE watched him plenty) but I don't see him as much of a positive contributor on that end. 

Offensively, I'm with you. Collins can do most of what Powell can do in the roll game, and with the added dimension of shooting and even a little more creation.
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(05-11-2021, 09:33 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: If we commit more money/roster space to rollers it would definitely be because KP is on his way out.

Kind of seems like the feeling is mutual...

https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1391846711002288135

Bleh ya I have a hard time with this. KP complains a lot lol. So Mavs tried 5 out for quite a while and it just wasn't working. The offense looks better with a rim roller. KP still gets his points either way so I don't think he should have a lot to complain about. Remember last year for most of the season KP was playing with Powell. I hope KP can just be patient.

To me ideally the way you would "fix" the KP problem is to get another ball mover in the lineup (starting or otherwise) that can get KP the ball. J rich is not that guy.
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(05-11-2021, 10:55 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: No. That would be rough, for sure. I'm in lockstep with you on this one.

I get that there is probably a scenario where both fit on the team...

But Powell seems like he does more on the court than Collins to me.

Man...I talk like I am so negative on John Collins.   Dude is probably a baller.  He has the size...can shoot the 3...I dont see a lot of his games but I do check box scores on him and he always has super efficient FG% in games....like Zion efficient(example: 8 for 12...dunks?)...I saw a box score a few weeks ago and he had like 15 rebounds...

I know nothing about his defense.   

I know that Powell is always jumping around for loose balls and tipping rebounds to teammates...he is supposedly always in the right position and making the right reads unlike WCS who seems to not get it sometimes.

Also...I forget that Collins' Max isnt like a veteran Max or Super Max...whats the most Collins can get from Atlanta?  From another team?  I guess I am thinking I would rather have Powell at 12M than Collins at 25M.

No offense to you Collins...I wish you all the best in the World.
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(05-11-2021, 11:11 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: I guess I am thinking I would rather have Powell at 12M than Collins at 25M.


Well, when we started discussing Collins a few months back, Powell wasn't even in the rotation. I've been a Powell fan for a while, and I have to admit the thinking above is compelling, if you think the current version of Powell is what you can count on getting as we move forward.
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(05-11-2021, 11:09 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: High as I am on Collins, I have to disagree here. I think Powell is a pretty underrated defender in terms of how well he moves his feet and how intelligently he plays. I'm slightly less familiar with Collins (though I HAVE watched him plenty) but I don't see him as much of a positive contributor on that end. 

Offensively, I'm with you. Collins can do most of what Powell can do in the roll game, and with the added dimension of shooting and even a little more creation.

I haven't watched enough Collins to really have an opinion. I just think MBT likes the idea of pairing him with KP. Again I am sort of out on the idea unless Powell is in a trade since Collins is meant to be a Powell upgrade.

I also am out on a KP for Collins trade in the sense that to me its selling too low on KP and I don't know who to pair with Collins in the frontcourt otherwise. Maxi would be okay in that you can do switching but rim protection is an issue.
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So after reading y'alls comments it seems to me that the big question is...

Who is the better basketball player, KP or DP? 

Big Grin
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(05-11-2021, 11:14 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: I also am out on a KP for Collins trade in the sense that to me its selling too low on KP and I don't know who to pair with Collins in the frontcourt otherwise. Maxi would be okay in that you can do switching but rim protection is an issue.


Completely disagree that KP for Collins is selling low, but I'm right there with you about Kleber/Collins not being the right fit for your main bigs. KP for Collins definitely creates a hole at the 5.
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(05-11-2021, 11:11 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: I know that Powell is always jumping around for loose balls and tipping rebounds to teammates...he is supposedly always in the right position and making the right reads unlike WCS who seems to not get it sometimes.

Also...I forget that Collins' Max isnt like a veteran Max or Super Max...whats the most Collins can get from Atlanta?  From another team?  I guess I am thinking I would rather have Powell at 12M than Collins at 25M.

Ya I am in the same boat. Not that long ago Powell was looking pretty rough but now he looks pretty good, especially considering his contract. I also think THJ's rise has made him a *likely* a keeper dependent on his playoff performance which further decreases the likelihood of a big offseason move.

Everything to me is lining up for smaller moves + keeping THJ with the huge wildcard being KP. I imagine the MBT would like to make the KP/Luka pairing work but we also really need to see what happens in the playoffs. We love talking about all this stuff but playoffs have a massive impact on these decisions. If Mavs even get to the 2nd round this year the odds of bringing the band back greatly increase.
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(05-10-2021, 11:52 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Anyone seen the numbers SG Khyri Thomas put up on the 10 day contract for Houston so far? 

21.5 PPG

57/40/100

4.0 SPG

1.5 BPG

Loved him out of college, wanted him over Brunson in 2018, then he was buried and often injured on the Pistons bench. Maybe he has figured it out. Okay it´s two games and basically all garbage minutes in Houston, but playing next to Luka you get as much defensive attention as the tanking Rockets. Big Grin

He also shot 51.1 FG% and 40.6% 3pt FG% in three years of college, besides being a two time Big East defensive player of the year like Ewing, Mutombo, Iverson, Dunn, Okafor and Thabeet.

Maybe that´s the smart way to get Marcus Smart on a really cheap contract. Look for these guys before they get paid. Just because Iwundu didn´t work out, doesn´t mean Thomas can´t. I like the general idea behind this. Keep trying. It´s what the Sixers did during The Process. Play American Idol with 10 day contracts till Covington stuck around.

He is 6'-3" 210 SG who just turned 25 and has played 3 games now (Mil, UTA & POR) and still at 20.33 PPG.  Agent is Mike Lindeman from Excel.  Last night against POR - 29min, 18pts, 4reb and 5ast.  For POR - Lillard, McCollum and Powell all played 35 min.
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(05-10-2021, 09:15 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: I noticed that late game Collins was sitting behind 3 point line and they ran PNR with Young and Capela.  If that means anything.
Kinda like the Mavs run PNR with Luka and Powell while KP camps out behind the 3pt line begging for the ball.
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(05-11-2021, 11:19 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Completely disagree that KP for Collins is selling low, but I'm right there with you about Kleber/Collins not being the right fit for your main bigs. KP for Collins definitely creates a hole at the 5.

Who would Mavs pair with Collins, would it need to be another stretch 5? This part I am fuzzy on. Collins can shoot outside but he also rolls a lot so seems like you would want a Maxi or Thad Young type next to him. There aren't a lot of guys I can picture that are great fits next to Collins. Maybe Myles Turner, that's about it. If I could get Turner + Collins in a multi-team trade I would definitely be interested but that too seems like a longshot.
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