2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[Scott41theMavs]

I think we can end the conversation right there, unfortunately, because SAC's ability to sign Holmes (the first half of a "sign-and-trade" transaction) is very limited. Unless they do some significant salary clearing, all they can offer him is about 10.5M in year 1 salary, using Early Bird rights.

(Existing deals for Hield, Barnes, Fox, Hallibuton, Wright, Bagley PLUS 1st rounder leave them with less than that.)

If you think he's getting 10.5M or less, then this is a moot point, of course. But most here seem to think he's getting more.

SAC does have the ability to clear out cap room to offer him more, but you'd think they would do that roster juggling (and slicing) to be able to keep him, not for the benefit of another team.

Yup. Sounds like our competition for Holmes (who will be a major Mavs target this offseason if the MBT chooses not to be stupid) will be the other teams with caproom, not the Kings.

[SleepingHero]

Yup. Sounds like our competition for Holmes (who will be a major Mavs target this offseason if the MBT chooses not to be stupid) will be the other teams with caproom, not the Kings.

Only team I'm worried about making a serious offer for Holmes is Charlotte. They need a center badly. Seems like the perfect situation for him too. 


I'm fully expecting the Mavs to ignore Holmes and he signs 4/64 with Charlotte. And we all are going to get our boxers in a bunch lambasting the FO for not going after harder for Holmes.

[Scott41theMavs]

Only team I'm worried about making a serious offer for Holmes is Charlotte. They need a center badly. Seems like the perfect situation for him too. 


I'm fully expecting the Mavs to ignore Holmes and he signs 4/64 with Charlotte. And we all are going to get our boxers in a bunch lambasting the FO for not going after harder for Holmes.

Holmes is a strong rim protector, isn't he? Why would the MBT love Powell and not adore a guy who can do everything Powell can plus guard the paint? SMH. Holmes would absolutely be this year's Brogdon as far as a Mavs' offseason goes.

At this point, I just hope they have a plan. Or at least, that they have a plan by the time the draft and free agency rolls around. I have a feeling they're waiting to decide anything about the offseason until the playoffs are done. 

But once again, they have to make the playoffs first. Lose more than four or five of the next seven games - and the two after - and they won't have to worry about that. Pedal to the metal, Mavs!!

[F Gump]

Despite the fact that his skills are limited and he has lost athletic ability due to the injury, Powell has shown that he has the ability to contribute to this team. And I'm not sure how you fit BOTH Holmes and Powell onto the same roster with salaries exceeding 10M each, when they really won't fit on the floor together.

Powell's biggest asset is that he's willing to play like a wild man, all out - he will run around, literally CRASH the boards, play human pinball, muck the game up, whatever it takes - and that energy has value. I actually think he has GREATLY increased that aspect of his game this season, like never before, and it's working. Maybe it's out of necessity, because it's all he has, but whatever the reason, it's effective.

In the stats that say Holmes is good on D, what do they say about DP? Is there really an upgrade?

If you can sign Holmes to a reasonable deal, reasoning that he's more of a two-way player, can you trade Powell and get back value at another position?

[Branduil]

Whether or not Holmes and Powell overlap is irrelevant to me. IMO you never DON'T go after a guy just because you have a worse version already on your team.

[Mapka]

Whether or not Holmes and Powell overlap is irrelevant to me. IMO you never DON'T go after a guy just because you have a worse version already on your team.

That's fine for playmaking Superstars or end of bench pieces or if you don't have holes in your roster.

If you need a highlevel playmaker you can't waste anything on a maybe upgrade roleplayer for startermoney.

[Hypermav]

https://theathletic.com/2569994/2021/05/...ated-team/

Hollinger has 3 Memphis guys on a 10 man list, so a little self serving.  The reason I posted this is for the Holmes blurb.

8. Richaun Holmes, C, Sacramento
"Kings fans are well aware of how good Richaun Holmes is, but that knowledge has not diffused through the rest of the basketball universe. At first glance that’s understandable. He’s a bit undersized for a five at 6-10, 235, he doesn’t shoot 3s or post up and his rebound and shot blocking are solid but hardly extraordinary.
So where’s the added value here? Well, much of it lies in the development of one shot. Quietly, Holmes has become one of the best floater shooters in the league, which is a rare statement for a center. Among bigs, his only competition in this category is Jokic. As a result, Holmes’ rim runs often result not in a flying dunk attempt but in a quick, soft push shot dropped softly in over a rotating defender. These are difficult shots, but Holmes is one of the rare players who shoots them so effectively that they add value to an offense. This season he’s shooting 59 percent on shots considered “short midrange”, according to Cleaning the Glass, and those comprised more than a third of his shots. Both figures place him near the top of all centers.
As a result of that floater, Holmes averages 23.5 points per 100 on 67.5 percent true shooting. Basically, that one trick turned him from a blah backup big into a pretty valuable offensive player.
It also could turn him into a wealthy man this summer. Holmes is 27 and will be an unrestricted free agent, so whether it’s another center-needy team or a return to the Kings, he’s looking at a very nice payday."

*Brunson was an honorable mention

[loki]

That's fine for playmaking Superstars or end of bench pieces or if you don't have holes in your roster.

If you need a highlevel playmaker you can't waste anything on a maybe upgrade roleplayer for startermoney.

The problem is that a high level playmaker may not be available. Guys like Lowry and Conley are short term solutions who are likely to land elsewhere. DeRozan could be an option but is a relatively poor fit. I don't think the Mavs are going to gain much by saving money in the frontcourt to chase these type of players.

[Mapka]

The problem is that a high level playmaker may not be available. Guys like Lowry and Conley are short term solutions who are likely to land elsewhere. DeRozan could be an option but is a relatively poor fit. I don't think the Mavs are going to gain much by saving money in the frontcourt to chase these type of players.

That's already three guys you should be after before even thinking about the frontcourt.

If Lowry goes south it will push out Dragic and Oladipo - if he goes to Philly Tobi might be the causality.

I don't like CP3 but I'd offer him before I'd go after Holmes.

...

[loki]

That's already three guys you should be after before even thinking about the frontcourt.

If Lowry goes south it will push out Dragic and Oladipo - if he goes to Philly Tobi might be the causality.

I don't like CP3 but I'd offer him before I'd go after Holmes.

...

What are the odds of landing any of those guys though? I'd put money on Lowry going to Miami or Philly before Dallas. Dragic and Oladipo aren't worth spending 25m on. You can make offers to them regardless of what happens with Holmes. And I can't imagine CP3 turning down his 44m player option to leave the #1 team in the West to go share the ball with Luka on a lower salary.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

https://theathletic.com/2569994/2021/05/...ated-team/

Hollinger has 3 Memphis guys on a 10 man list, so a little self serving.  The reason I posted this is for the Holmes blurb.

8. Richaun Holmes, C, Sacramento
"Kings fans are well aware of how good Richaun Holmes is, but that knowledge has not diffused through the rest of the basketball universe. At first glance that’s understandable. He’s a bit undersized for a five at 6-10, 235, he doesn’t shoot 3s or post up and his rebound and shot blocking are solid but hardly extraordinary.
So where’s the added value here? Well, much of it lies in the development of one shot. Quietly, Holmes has become one of the best floater shooters in the league, which is a rare statement for a center. Among bigs, his only competition in this category is Jokic. As a result, Holmes’ rim runs often result not in a flying dunk attempt but in a quick, soft push shot dropped softly in over a rotating defender. These are difficult shots, but Holmes is one of the rare players who shoots them so effectively that they add value to an offense. This season he’s shooting 59 percent on shots considered “short midrange”, according to Cleaning the Glass, and those comprised more than a third of his shots. Both figures place him near the top of all centers.
As a result of that floater, Holmes averages 23.5 points per 100 on 67.5 percent true shooting. Basically, that one trick turned him from a blah backup big into a pretty valuable offensive player.
It also could turn him into a wealthy man this summer. Holmes is 27 and will be an unrestricted free agent, so whether it’s another center-needy team or a return to the Kings, he’s looking at a very nice payday."

*Brunson was an honorable mention

The Floater

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkul1HJnIws

It's effective but its kinda funny if anyone who has envisioned Holmes as this paint dominating old school bad ass around the rim when he's really built his career on this teensy delicate mid range floater shot.   He would be a great PnR partner with Brunson if you combined Brunson's high level finish ability at the rim with Holmes' ability to punish the drop.

[Chicagojk]

I can't really argue too much on Hollinger's list.  I would not have put three Grizzles on the list, but Hollinger use to work there.   He has Clint Capela at 5.   I find it interesting that Atlanta's run recently is mostly being led by Bogdan and Capela.    John Collins has had some very quiet games mixed with a good game or two.  In the last 10 games he is averaging 15 and 7.  Solid numbers but not something I would want to pay 30 million for.  

One guy who has really impressed me is Gafford in Washington.  What a steal he could turn into.   I was watching their game last night.  He didn't get much playing time until late.    He is still very raw, but he just oozes potential.  I know the Bulls picked up Theis as part of that trade, but man I would hate seeing him develop since leaving if I was a Bulls fan.

[StepBackJay]

Lots of discussion on Holmes. My concern with him is that several teams are interested in him and need/want him more than the Mavs do.

Kirk on MMB has brought this point up a lot which I agree with and that's that the Mavs need a ball mover in the worst way. Josh Green might be our second best passer which is really saying something.

Luka is very high usage and we have seen THJ, Brunson can score but they are ball movers. We have spacer guys that will swing the ball (sometimes) but again are not playmakers.

J Rich was supposed to be at least a little bit of a playmaker but he is just a mess all the way around.

Mavs got to get a guy that moves the ball and makes plays other than Luka. As much as I like Holmes I think resurgence of Powell makes upgrading that position lower on the list. I also think a ball-move might actually get KP the freaking ball which then solves our KP problem.

If you can get a legit starting SG that can play-make and keep THJ are your 6th man scorer I think that is a successful offseason.

[omahen]

Lots of discussion on Holmes. My concern with him is that several teams are interested in him and need/want him more than the Mavs do.

Kirk on MMB has brought this point up a lot which I agree with and that's that the Mavs need a ball mover in the worst way. Josh Green might be our second best passer which is really saying something.

Luka is very high usage and we have seen THJ, Brunson can score but they are ball movers. We have spacer guys that will swing the ball (sometimes) but again are not playmakers.

J Rich was supposed to be at least a little bit of a playmaker but he is just a mess all the way around.

Mavs got to get a guy that moves the ball and makes plays other than Luka. As much as I like Holmes I think resurgence of Powell makes upgrading that position lower on the list. I also think a ball-move might actually get KP the freaking ball which then solves our KP problem.

If you can get a legit starting SG that can play-make and keep THJ are your 6th man scorer I think that is a successful offseason.

I think Holmes only makes sense if you move KP. Or to lesser extent Powell. Otherwise I totally agree, guard spots should have higher priority

[MaxiThreeba]

I can't really argue too much on Hollinger's list.  I would not have put three Grizzles on the list, but Hollinger use to work there.   He has Clint Capela at 5.   I find it interesting that Atlanta's run recently is mostly being led by Bogdan and Capela.    John Collins has had some very quiet games mixed with a good game or two.  In the last 10 games he is averaging 15 and 7.  Solid numbers but not something I would want to pay 30 million for.  

One guy who has really impressed me is Gafford in Washington.  What a steal he could turn into.   I was watching their game last night.  He didn't get much playing time until late.    He is still very raw, but he just oozes potential.  I know the Bulls picked up Theis as part of that trade, but man I would hate seeing him develop since leaving if I was a Bulls fan.

Besides trading Luka, Atlanta has made some nice moves to build out a roster.  They didn't suffer from Delusions of Grandeur that they could nab a blue chip FA and went out and actually tried to improve their roster.

Obviously having a couple of premium picks helps that process...but Collins is about 5th on their pecking order right now and Hunter and Reddish have been hurt.  Okungwu has played limited minutes but looked effective at times.  They also found Huerter with the 19th pick.

Being opportunistic in grabbing Capela and being aggressive on second tier FAs Bog, Gallinari and Rondo (turned into Lemon Pepper Lou) is what has driven their success.

If they had Luka instead of Trae and Reddish they would be even scarier...thanks for being dumb in the middle of some other smart moves!

[StepBackJay]

I think Holmes only makes sense if you move KP. Or to lesser extent Powell. Otherwise I totally agree, guard spots should have higher priority

Ya I think so too and I doubt even then the Mavs would overpay for him (which is probably what it will cost to get him).

With KP some days I am like he's totally gone he hates it here and he's always injured, other days I am like they will give it at least 1 more year. I have been jumping over each side of that fence for months now. So much is riding on these playoffs. KP's future is #1 and I would say THJ to a lesser extent.

[Chicagojk]

OK, I have been out of the loop a little bit, but WTH is Mavrello?   Please tell me it will not be featured in our free agency pitches.    Ha

https://twitter.com/dallasmavs/status/13...6181730306

[StepBackJay]

I wonder if there could be some kind of Duffy-approved J Rich for Dragic trade that would allow Mavs to stay over the cap.

The Heat will have their pick of the best FA's so it's unlikely they want to spend cap space on J Rich, its just interesting that you have the Duffy connection and player connections to each franchise.

Dragic will be one to watch in any scenario because I don't think he is in Miami next year. Dragic's role on the Mavs would be a ball mover off the bench and spot starter.

One sort of budget plan would be one where Mavs try to get Dinwiddie/Dragic to add playmaking and retain THJ's scoring. You are adding net 1 guard with J Rich exiting.

Speaking of Dinwiddie I don't know if there is a way to get him in some kind of opt-in and trade J Rich / Dinwiddie swap. I haven't seen whether the Nets receiving an opt-in player would trigger a hard cap.

You could try to do this all with just cap space, something like 14 THJ, 12 Dinwiddie (in a small trade so that you keep his bird rights), 8 Dragic.

Main rotation players would be something like:

Luka/Dragic
Dinwiddie/Brunson/Green
DFS/THJ
Powell/Maxi
KP/WCS (rMLE)

[cow]

Lots of discussion on Holmes. My concern with him is that several teams are interested in him and need/want him more than the Mavs do.

Kirk on MMB has brought this point up a lot which I agree with and that's that the Mavs need a ball mover in the worst way. Josh Green might be our second best passer which is really saying something.

Luka is very high usage and we have seen THJ, Brunson can score but they are ball movers. We have spacer guys that will swing the ball (sometimes) but again are not playmakers.

J Rich was supposed to be at least a little bit of a playmaker but he is just a mess all the way around.

Mavs got to get a guy that moves the ball and makes plays other than Luka. As much as I like Holmes I think resurgence of Powell makes upgrading that position lower on the list. I also think a ball-move might actually get KP the freaking ball which then solves our KP problem.

If you can get a legit starting SG that can play-make and keep THJ are your 6th man scorer I think that is a successful offseason.

THT

[StepBackJay]

I just think whatever deal the Mavs might offer THT the Lakers will just match.