2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[mvossman]

NO on Kemba.

NO on Dinwiddie and company.

HELL YES on Hayes, Bey and 2021 FRP!!!!!

NO on Bev and company.

YES on Robinson, Achiuwa and Dragic.

NO on FVV.

Agree on most of these.  

No way the FO pulls the trigger on the kids.

The Miami deal is too light and we can probably get Dragic in free agency if we want him.

Surprised on FVV.  Most folks would jump all over Brogdon.  FVV is a similar player with a similar contract.  He fits the bill of a secondary playmaker who can stretch the floor and plays great point of attack defense.  That leaves you with plenty to get Holmes and another starter.

[Scott41theMavs]

Agree on most of these.  

No way the FO pulls the trigger on the kids.

The Miami deal is too light and we can probably get Dragic in free agency if we want him.

Surprised on FVV.  Most folks would jump all over Brogdon.  FVV is a similar player with a similar contract.  He fits the bill of a secondary playmaker who can stretch the floor and plays great point of attack defense.  That leaves you with plenty to get Holmes and another starter.

I would definitely do KP for a FVV package.

[Mavs03]

I think moving forward THJ should be our starting SG.  Him and Luka have tremendous chemistry.  We need someone who is at least a threat to hit a wide open 3.  J-Rich should come off the bench.

Luka
THJ
DFS
Kleber
KP

Bench:

Brunson
J-Rich
Green
Powell
WCS

Burke, Redick, Melli, and Boban rounding out the bench

Hinton and Bey cheering from the sidelines

I think Green's energy off the bench will be a huge help.  Hopefully, J-Rich will be motivated coming off the bench.  As we approach the playoffs, we need a little more punch in our starting lineup.  J-Rich and DFS, although our best defenders, cannot be depended on from an offensive perspective.

[Omega_Supreme]

One of the trade possibilities I have been kicking around in my head was one that looks a little something like this: 

Dream Trade
New Orleans Receives  
Kristaps Porzingis - (31 Million)
Spencer Dinwiddie- (11 Million) 



Dallas Receives 
Lonzo Ball (Sign and Trade) - (17 Million)
Josh Hart (Sign and Trade) - (9 Million) 
2 1st round picks (From New Orleans) 
1 1st round pick (From Brooklyn)
Steven Adams (17 Million) 

Note: If we could get the kid Jaxon Hayes that would be perfect 

Brooklyn Receives
JJ Reddick 
Josh Richardson

Ball and Hart are expiring and don't seem to be in the long term plans for New Orleans.
KP is a perfect fit next to Zion 
Steven Adams answers our Center issue and we get 2 1st round picks from the New Orleans treasure trove

The Mavs could still make moves after that because they are replacing KP's salary with Ball and Adams. 
Green gets us 2 million off the payroll because I assume Josh Richardson will opt in. 
Mavs add Josh Hart to come off the bench with Brunson, two Nova boys. 

Luka
Lonzo
Dorian
Laure Markanen (Sign) 
Steven Adams

[Mavs2021]

Guess I can forget about Diallo for the minimum. He´s had some good games for the Pistons, shooting over 40% from three. Might still be a chance to snatch him for the room exception, depending on their evaluation of him. Starters would seem to be Hayes/Jackson/Bey, but he´d probably be the primary SG/SF back-up.

On a related guard game note. Although I would be in favour of it, I doubt the Hornets will trade Rozier, cause he´s still a level up from Graham/Monk, who are a little inconsistent and while Monk is a proven bench scorer, Rozier is a proven starter that fits with LaMelo.

[omahen]

One of the trade possibilities I have been kicking around in my head was one that looks a little something like this:

My comments. Nets can't do a SnT for Reddick, as it would put them under hard cap limitations and they are way over the line. I would also say that three first round picks to Dallas along Ball and Hart are extremely optimistic, imho. Hart salary estimate I think is ok, Ball seems undervalued.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I think moving forward THJ should be our starting SG.  Him and Luka have tremendous chemistry.  We need someone who is at least a threat to hit a wide open 3.  J-Rich should come off the bench.

Luka
THJ
DFS
Kleber
KP

Bench:

Brunson
J-Rich
Green
Powell
WCS
 
I think Green's energy off the bench will be a huge help.  Hopefully, J-Rich will be motivated coming off the bench.  As we approach the playoffs, we need a little more punch in our starting lineup.  J-Rich and DFS, although our best defenders, cannot be depended on from an offensive perspective.

A couple of thoughts...

Powell has started 8 of the last 9 games and had 28 minutes in the one he didn't start (last night).  While we don't know who will sit when (if) KP returns, Powell just continues to improve.  When he's in the game, the offense has been incredibly efficient these last 10 or so games.  But, his personal box score stats (especially scoring and rebounding) have been highly volatile.  Same with his +/- numbers.  Maxi/KP lineups have been very successful this season.  Powell/KP lineups haven't.  But, the sample size is almost nil.  Point is, I'm not sure Maxi/KP is etched in stone.  Starting one of the rim runners with KP also provides the added benefit of playing the other rim runner with Maxi off the bench.  KP and Maxi starting together limits how you can use Powell and WCS since they can't be on the court together.

Other than the last two games THJ has started, it is hard to make a compelling case THJ is dramatically better (or the team is better) when he starts.  He's one of the few main rotation players who is a net negative in floor time with KP.  HOWEVER, if you dig deeper, a lot of that THJ/KP floor time has come in lineups with a single big.  Six of Hardaway's seven most used five man lineups feature DFS at PF...the kiss of death for successful lineup construction (I should have noticed that before now).  There are tons of 3 man lineups with THJ and Powell with excellent results.  But only 34 minutes all season with KP/Powell/THJ playing together (+23.9).  KP/Kleber/THJ have 166 minutes together this season with a net of -1.2.

It is amazing to me that what may be our best lineup (Powell/KP/DFS/THJ/Luka) has been used almost zero percent of the time this year.  Of course, our most used five man lineup...KP/Maxi/DFS/JRich/Luka...is +12.6.  As they say, if it ain't broke...  The other thing about starting THJ is what it does to the bench.  There are certain Brunson/JRich lineups that work (like having them as the first subs while KP is still on the floor) and some that don't.  I thought benching JRich for Green IN MIAMI last night was either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid.  I think it is important that Dallas not do anything to taint the leagues view of JRich.  They need him to opt out and they need Duffy to be satisfied with how JRich was treated this season.  I'm not sure benching JRich accomplished either of those thing.

[michaeltex]

A couple of thoughts...

Powell has started 8 of the last 9 games and had 28 minutes in the one he didn't start (last night).  While we don't know who will sit when (if) KP returns, Powell just continues to improve.  When he's in the game, the offense has been incredibly efficient these last 10 or so games.  But, his personal box score stats (especially scoring and rebounding) have been highly volatile.  Same with his +/- numbers.  Maxi/KP lineups have been very successful this season.  Powell/KP lineups haven't.  But, the sample size is almost nil.  Point is, I'm not sure Maxi/KP is etched in stone.  Starting one of the rim runners with KP also provides the added benefit of playing the other rim runner with Maxi off the bench.  KP and Maxi starting together limits how you can use Powell and WCS since they can't be on the court together.

Other than the last two games THJ has started, it is hard to make a compelling case THJ is dramatically better (or the team is better) when he starts.  He's one of the few main rotation players who is a net negative in floor time with KP.  HOWEVER, if you dig deeper, a lot of that THJ/KP floor time has come in lineups with a single big.  Six of Hardaway's seven most used five man lineups feature DFS at PF...the kiss of death for successful lineup construction (I should have noticed that before now).  There are tons of 3 man lineups with THJ and Powell with excellent results.  But only 34 minutes all season with KP/Powell/THJ playing together (+23.9).  KP/Kleber/THJ have 166 minutes together this season with a net of -1.2.

It is amazing to me that what may be our best lineup (Powell/KP/DFS/THJ/Luka) has been used almost zero percent of the time this year.  Of course, our most used five man lineup...KP/Maxi/DFS/JRich/Luka...is +12.6.  As they say, if it ain't broke...  The other thing about starting THJ is what it does to the bench.  There are certain Brunson/JRich lineups that work (like having them as the first subs while KP is still on the floor) and some that don't.  I thought benching JRich for Green IN MIAMI last night was either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid.  I think it is important that Dallas not do anything to taint the leagues view of JRich.  They need him to opt out and they need Duffy to be satisfied with how JRich was treated this season.  I'm not sure benching JRich accomplished either of those thing.

Great analysis.

So what's the playoff rotation? Last night 13 players saw time, although Bey and Hinton were only 2 minutes each. Previous game, 12 players logged time. Close game against WAS, 10 players saw time. You know RC's probably not digging this deep once the playoffs start, unless there is a disaster. 

Dance with what brung us? KP/Maxi/DFS/JRich/Luka? Powell, JB, Burke, THJ as main subs? WCS as needed? Bobi as change-of-pace guy? Does Green get time or are the rookies forgettable until next season?

[mvossman]

A couple of thoughts...

Powell has started 8 of the last 9 games and had 28 minutes in the one he didn't start (last night).  While we don't know who will sit when (if) KP returns, Powell just continues to improve.  When he's in the game, the offense has been incredibly efficient these last 10 or so games.  But, his personal box score stats (especially scoring and rebounding) have been highly volatile.  Same with his +/- numbers.  Maxi/KP lineups have been very successful this season.  Powell/KP lineups haven't.  But, the sample size is almost nil.  Point is, I'm not sure Maxi/KP is etched in stone.  Starting one of the rim runners with KP also provides the added benefit of playing the other rim runner with Maxi off the bench.  KP and Maxi starting together limits how you can use Powell and WCS since they can't be on the court together.

Other than the last two games THJ has started, it is hard to make a compelling case THJ is dramatically better (or the team is better) when he starts.  He's one of the few main rotation players who is a net negative in floor time with KP.  HOWEVER, if you dig deeper, a lot of that THJ/KP floor time has come in lineups with a single big.  Six of Hardaway's seven most used five man lineups feature DFS at PF...the kiss of death for successful lineup construction (I should have noticed that before now).  There are tons of 3 man lineups with THJ and Powell with excellent results.  But only 34 minutes all season with KP/Powell/THJ playing together (+23.9).  KP/Kleber/THJ have 166 minutes together this season with a net of -1.2.

It is amazing to me that what may be our best lineup (Powell/KP/DFS/THJ/Luka) has been used almost zero percent of the time this year.  Of course, our most used five man lineup...KP/Maxi/DFS/JRich/Luka...is +12.6.  As they say, if it ain't broke...  The other thing about starting THJ is what it does to the bench.  There are certain Brunson/JRich lineups that work (like having them as the first subs while KP is still on the floor) and some that don't.  I thought benching JRich for Green IN MIAMI last night was either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid.  I think it is important that Dallas not do anything to taint the leagues view of JRich.  They need him to opt out and they need Duffy to be satisfied with how JRich was treated this season.  I'm not sure benching JRich accomplished either of those thing.

I'm not sure I want Rick making rotation calls based on what will make agents happy.  I understand there is some thought to this with making the starting lineup, but we need to win games right now and bringing Green in when he did completely changed the complexion of the game.

[omahen]

Of course, our most used five man lineup...KP/Maxi/DFS/JRich/Luka...is +12.6.  As they say, if it ain't broke...  The other thing about starting THJ is what it does to the bench. 

I think bench success is the key. As you said, our main lineup is very good and it gets even better with the injection of JB+THJ for Luka+Kleber. Problems appear when different combinations start mixing. Besides, the JB, THJ, JRich, DFS and KP lineup was feasting on opponents reserves, but was very ineffective against opposing starters in the fourth quarter. Brunson and Burke always look strange together, it just doesn't seem it works.

---

So what's the playoff rotation?

I think the pecking order is very clear and I don't expect many changes:
1. Luka
2. KP
3. DFS
4. JRich
5. THJ
6. JB
7. Maxi
8. Powell

The rest will get specialist episodes. If they perform great, they will see more time. If not, better luck next year.

[Kammrath]

I'm not sure I want Rick making rotation calls based on what will make agents happy.

I do not want that either....but I think this is a VERY real thing. We know RC often lets salary hierarchies dictate a lot too. I think @"DanSchwartzgan" is very perceptive and correct in saying there are real agent influences at work as well. 

It honestly explains so much.

[SamStetz]

There are certain Brunson/JRich lineups that work (like having them as the first subs while KP is still on the floor) and some that don't.  I thought benching JRich for Green IN MIAMI last night was either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid.  I think it is important that Dallas not do anything to taint the leagues view of JRich.  They need him to opt out and they need Duffy to be satisfied with how JRich was treated this season.  I'm not sure benching JRich accomplished either of those thing.

This is also why I’m preparing myself for the chance that JRich returns...pay him something and make Duffy happy. Even if it is “Powell-type” money to come off the bench, I think the Duffy role is something we overlook when we want to lose JRich as soon as possible this summer

[KillerLeft]

We know RC often lets salary hierarchies dictate a lot too. 

More than the agent thing, the above is what happens, I believe, and it's not just about salary, either. The organization acquires players at certain levels of pay and envisions them in certain roles. Those players (and their teammates) expect themselves to occupy and flourish in those roles, and openly taking those roles away from certain people can probably be traumatically altering to your locker room if/when it's not done correctly. 

For example, I'm sure that on some level Richardson is fairly pissed about not starting the 2nd half last night, and about how infrequently he has been a closer as of late. It's clear that Carlisle is looking for solutions, but a guy like Richardson might have the support of quite a few of the more important people in the organization (we don't know). If removing a problem by not playing Richardson as much creates three more problems because (just speculating to make a point) Luka, DFS and Brunson all get upset about how their buddy is getting treated, or worse yet: they don't agree that Richardson is a problem, well...that wouldn't be good. I am quite sure that managing this type of political situation is one of Carlisle's biggest job requirements. 

I actually think Carlisle is one of the few coaches in the NBA with enough power to make drastic changes, but I also think he got to where he is by understanding and carefully navigating the politics and psychology of NBA organizations. None of this is meant to say he's infallible, but I do think that in cases like Porzingis and Richardson's, the entire organization, from Cuban down to the trainers, probably believes that the best way forward is to get them playing well, not to replace them in the rotation.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Not sure how to throw a tweet in here but JRich's comments last night sure made him seem pretty frickin salty about the decision.

[Mavs2021]

This is also why I’m preparing myself for the chance that JRich returns...pay him something and make Duffy happy. Even if it is “Powell-type” money to come off the bench, I think the Duffy role is something we overlook when we want to lose JRich as soon as possible this summer

If we pay Richardson, then Lavine better be coming right now. I´m also not stressed out about paying Richardson, but then I want Lavine confirmed.

There are multiple three way trades that should be pretty straight forward

Hield+Kleber to Chicago
Porzingis to Sacramento
Lavine+ Aminu + Holmes to Dallas

Rest is to figure out how many Dallas 1st round picks go to the Bulls.

Burke + Terry + $6M cash to OKC to create a little extra space.

Collins 28.8
Lavine 19.5
Holmes 14.0 (68/4 deal)
Powell 11.1
Doncic 10.2
Aminu 10.1
Richardson 9.0 (45/4 deal)
DFS 4.0
Green 3.0
Brunson 1.8
Minimum contract 1.5
Minimum contract 1.5
$114.5M

Doncic/Brunson
Lavine/Richardson
DFS/Green
Collins/Aminu
Holmes/Powell

Leaves you the room exception for a back-up center (Hartenstein, Bradley, WCS, Robin Lopez, Biyombo etc.) and four open spots to add a few projects (Bonga, Diallo, Bey, Hinton) or just some veterans (Melli, Boban).

[Kammrath]

Doncic/Brunson
Lavine/Richardson
DFS/Green
Collins/Aminu
Holmes/Powell

Don't get me wrong...I would LOVE that lineup....but pulling that off?

[Mavs2021]

Don't get me wrong...I would LOVE that lineup....but pulling that off?

I think the Collins part would actually be most difficult, because Atlanta has full control here.

Holmes is an UFA, so if he wants to play in Dallas we have the threat to just sign him outright. Then it becomes a question of whether the Kings want to trade Hield for Porzingis. Let´s be honest the Kings aren´t exactly free agency destination numero uno. They don´t have any major capspace to make a play for somebody like Collins either.

Lavine also has significant leverage with the Bulls, since his contract is expiring. If Harden can force his way onto the Nets in what ultimately became a complex four-way trade, I´m sure we can find a way to acquire Lavine in a three way with the Kings or Hornets.

The biggest obstacle is simply to convince the players (Holmes, Lavine) that they want to play for Dallas only.

If we don´t believe the MBT can successfully recruit Lavine and Holmes away from the lowly Bulls and Kings, then we might as well give up already and call it Goldfish Tank.

[ClutchDirk]

Not sure how to throw a tweet in here but JRich's comments last night sure made him seem pretty frickin salty about the decision.

When you click on the 3 dots at the top right of the tweet you go to another page...when you do scroll up and copy paste the link in the white box above the other embedded link...

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

When you click on the 3 dots at the top right of the tweet you go to another page...when you do scroll up and copy paste the link in the white box above the other embedded link...

Ah thanks, but do I just insert that as a link then here on the forum?

https://twitter.com/TheKobeBeef/status/1...2713579523

---

Ah thanks, but do I just insert that as a link then here on the forum?

https://twitter.com/TheKobeBeef/status/1...2713579523

It appears so, thank you!

[Jason Terry]

Let’s say KP underwhelms in postseason or never plays again this year. 

KP to SAC for Holmes SnT, Bagley and a protected FRP

Keep THj and JRich

Dragic MLE

Luka/Brunson 
Dragic/JRich
DFS/THj
Maxi/Bagley
Holmes/Powell 

Run it back with that deeper and more athletic squad. If things don’t work out we have 3 FRP’s to trade the following summer