2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[omahen]

Maybe the Pelicans? A real stretch five that can protect the rim and space the floor is basically the perfect fit next to Zion.

Definitely. 

Wizards, Spurs, Raptors, Celtics?

If we are just listing teams that could use a stretch center and ignore if they have actually anything useful for Mavs or how it fits their cap, then you also have: Brooklyn, Detroit, Clippers, Lakers, Memphis, Miami and OKC.

[BasketballJones41]

Okay Charlotte, Sacramento and Golden State are the obvious teams.

Who else could be in for Porzingis?

Wizards, Spurs, Raptors, Celtics?

I’m kind of interested in what a KP to the spurs trade would look like. Derrick White, Keldon Johnson and draft picks?

[omahen]

I’m kind of interested in what a KP to the spurs trade would look like. Derrick White, Keldon Johnson and draft picks?

I like White, but he is also very injury prone. Played even less games than KP this season. Keldon Johnson looks nice and talented, but is he really an upgrade over DFS? He sort of overlaps. So it comes down to draft picks. But Mavs are supposed to be building a contender, not rebuilding. SA also have like 60 mil of cap space this summer, if they renounce their FA. And they probably should renounce them, since their team is not really a playoff contender. So I find it a bit difficult to trade a few remaining players for KP. 

All in all, I am not really enthusiastic about SA package.

[omahen]

How about this way, since we are aggresively trading KP. 34 mil of cap space should be enough for Holmes and Markkanen, which could round up nicely our frontcourt rotation (if one believes in Markkanen to be more than he is showing currently in Chicago). So which team can offer best combination of at least 30 mil worth of players at guard or SF position for KP?

[BasketballJones41]

How about this way, since we are aggresively trading KP. 34 mil of cap space should be enough for Holmes and Markkanen, which could round up nicely our frontcourt rotation (if one believes in Markkanen to be more than he is showing currently in Chicago). So which team can offer best combination of at least 30 mil worth of players at guard or SF position for KP?

My man! Love that idea!

[omahen]

They often get associated with Harrell too.

Forgot about him. But they would be horribly undersized. They need someone bigger, imho

[omahen]

So which team can offer best combination of at least 30 mil worth of players at guard or SF position for KP?

Building from this question with frontcourt filled with Holmes and Markkanen. My best option would be Charlotte or a three way with Indiana for Brogdon+. But lets assume these two are not on the table. Would you trade KP for:
- Kemba and a couple of picks (not really interested in any of their young guards/SF)?
- Dinwiddie, Shamet and Claxton? Not really sure where to finds minutes for everyone
- one for Kamm with Detroit  taking a shortcut from rebuild: Hayes, Bey and 2021 FRP (let's say pick is not top3, otherwise no way from Detroit)?
- Beverly, Kennard and Zubac (he would have to be traded to third team as there would be no place with Holmes at C)?
- Robinson, Dragic and Achiuwa?
- FVV, Hood and pick?

[mavsluvr]

Can I get some JRich clarity?

As I understand, he has a PO for next year at ~$11.6M. My questions of the experts here are:

• Would we expect him to opt in for another big payday or opt out in hopes of getting a longer deal at a lower salary, but for more overall?
  
• I see comments about letting JRich go, but it's really his decision correct? I mean he can be cut, but there is a financial cost if he opts in?
  
• Is he SnT eligible if he opts in?
  
• If he opts out, DAL can still sign him to a more friendly deal, correct? If so, is he SnT eligible then. (I know there is a years limit on SnT deals)
  

To me he's a bust here. Seems like a good guy. Hasn't really complained. But he is not the stopper DAL sold him as. Certainly not a reliable scorer next to Luka. I think he'll end up hurting DAL in the playoffs as teams sag off to double Luka.

Personally, I hope he declines then finds a home somewhere else. Kind of in the same boat with THJ.

I guess I'll take a stab at this. 

Depending on what the overall market is like, it wouldn't surprise me if J Rich is able to get a multi-year deal without taking a pay cut. He hasn't been a great fit here, but I think there are probably a number of teams who could use a jack of all trades. 

Josh has the right to opt in. The Mavs could still cut him, but I don't know why they would, since he is still serviceable, and they would have to pay his salary, which would still count against the cap to all or some degree. They could still trade him, subject to the usual rules on trades. 

If he does not opt in, the Mavs could still re-sign him. 

Agree that he has been disappointing here, but that he might well find a good home elsewhere. I don't view him as in the same category with THJ. Tim has an elite skill, and an important one -- scoring. J Rich is a general all-around two-way player -- pretty good at a number of things, but not especially great at any one aspect of the game. I don't think he will be lacking in suitors if he leaves, but probably not at an enormous price. 

Of course, all this is just my thoughts -- determining what a free agent will command is subject to all sorts of external factors, and even professional GMs are subject to whiffing on it. 

Do you see it another way?

[mvossman]

I guess I'll take a stab at this. 

Depending on what the overall market is like, it wouldn't surprise me if J Rich is able to get a multi-year deal without taking a pay cut. He hasn't been a great fit here, but I think there are probably a number of teams who could use a jack of all trades. 

Josh has the right to opt in. The Mavs could still cut him, but I don't know why they would, since he is still serviceable, and they would have to pay his salary, which would still count against the cap to all or some degree. They could still trade him, subject to the usual rules on trades. 

If he opts out, the Mavs could still re-sign him. 

Agree that he has been disappointing here, but that he might well find a good home elsewhere. I don't view him as in the same category with THJ. Tim has an elite skill, and an important one -- scoring. J Rich is a general all-around two-way player -- pretty good at a number of things, but not especially great at any one aspect of the game. I don't think he will be lacking in suitors if he leaves, but probably not at an enormous price. 

Of course, all this is just my thoughts -- determining what a free agent will command is subject to all sorts of external factors, and even professional GMs are subject to whiffing on it. 

Do you see it another way?

If JRich opts in, he might actually be some value in a S&T.  If we are going after an RFA like Ball or Graham, it might be worth it to the other team to let the RFA go in exchange for a cheaper one year option with JRich who might end up being a better fit than here and they will have his bird rights.

[Mavs2021]

Definitely. 


If we are just listing teams that could use a stretch center and ignore if they have actually anything useful for Mavs or how it fits their cap, then you also have: Brooklyn, Detroit, Clippers, Lakers, Memphis, Miami and OKC.

Well just one example:

Washington

Trade 1:

Bertans + Bryant + Gill for Porzingis 

Trade 2:

Hachimura + Avdija for Powell

Only works as separate deal according to the trade machine.

Re-sign THJ for one year $20M.

Doncic/Brunson/Burke
Richardson/THJ/Terry
DFS/Hachimura/Green
Kleber/Bertans/Avdija
Holmes/Bryant/WCS

I´m honestly not sure anymore Washington would do it. Maybe they feel pressured by Beal´s pending free agency and the fact that Bryant could miss the start of next season due to his own ACL injury.

Anyway I like this trade for the Mavs, cause it gives them a great balance in the frontcourt of athletism and defense (Holmes, Kleber, Hachimura) to mix with two attacking talents (Bertans/Bryant). Plus it maintains our flexibility for 2022.

I know most people would see it as a downgrade, but to me 57% availability Porzingis/Powell vs. Holmes/Bryant/Bertans/Hachmiura is a no-brainer. There is no way this is a worse team.

[SleepingHero]

Maybe the Pelicans? A real stretch five that can protect the rim and space the floor is basically the perfect fit next to Zion.

Can't see the Mavs trading KP to a team within their division. Maybe if they offer Ingram though...

[Mavs2021]

If JRich opts in, he might actually be some value in a S&T.  If we are going after an RFA like Ball or Graham, it might be worth it to the other team to let the RFA go in exchange for a cheaper one year option with JRich who might end up being a better fit than here and they will have his bird rights.

Even Atlanta. They have been disappointed with Dunn, so maybe Collins + Dunn for Kleber + Richardson.

[omahen]

I know most people would see it as a downgrade, but to me 57% availability Porzingis/Powell vs. Holmes/Bryant/Bertans/Hachmiura is a no-brainer. There is no way this is a worse team.

For you anything is better than Mavs  

I am not really impressed neither by Hachimura or Avdija. Bertans is overpaid, a lot. The only thing he can do is shoot and he does it less than THJ. I would rather have Gafford than Bryant. I only see trade with Washington if you find third team to take these guys.

[Mavs2021]

Can't see the Mavs trading KP to a team within their division. Maybe if they offer Ingram though...

What is the downside? That your play-off qualifying odds hinge on the 1-2 extra times you get to see Porzingis, because he plays in the same division instead of the Eastern Conference. That your fanbase gets psychological damaged and your reputation suffers, if he kills you four times a year instead of three?

I seriously don´t get it.

If a trade with the Pelicans makes us significantly better compared to a trade with the Cavaliers, then you obviously do the trade. It´s the same as the whole tanking/conversion debate. Who cares if the Hawks get the 7th or 11th pick, tanking was about improving our own odds to keep a top 4 pick. 

Also would have to be Ball or Ingram. Not even the veteran happy Mavs do this for Adams/Bledsoe.

---

For you anything is better than Mavs  

I am not really impressed neither by Hachimura or Avdija. Bertans is overpaid, a lot. The only thing he can do is shoot and he does it less than THJ. I would rather have Gafford than Bryant. I only see trade with Washington if you find third team to take these guys.

Well if I said the earth was round, you´d take Irving´s side.

[dirkfansince1998]

Outside the box idea. Is a Heat trade legal?

KP + Richardson for Robinson + Achiuwa + Dragic + picks

[omahen]

Outside the box idea. Is a Heat trade legal?

KP + Richardson for Robinson + Achiuwa + Dragic + picks

Of course. Only, Heat don't have many picks to trade. And you can't do it before FA

P.S.: I actually posted a very similar version a post or two before you

[dirkfansince1998]

Of course. Only, Heat don't have many picks to trade. And you can't do it before FA

P.S.: I actually posted a very similar version a post or two before you

Great minds think alike. Mavs need shooting. The Mavs look really good with the walking corpse of JJ Redick on the floor. Robinson is basically the prime version of JJR.

[SleepingHero]

What is the downside? That your play-off qualifying odds hinge on the 1-2 extra times you get to see Porzingis, because he plays in the same division instead of the Eastern Conference. That your fanbase gets psychological damaged and your reputation suffers, if he kills you four times a year instead of three?

I seriously don´t get it.

If a trade with the Pelicans makes us significantly better compared to a trade with the Cavaliers, then you obviously do the trade. It´s the same as the whole tanking/conversion debate. Who cares if the Hawks get the 7th or 11th pick, tanking was about improving our own odds to keep a top 4 pick. 

Also would have to be Ball or Ingram. Not even the veteran happy Mavs do this for Adams/Bledsoe.

It's just that historically teams almost never trade stars to teams within their division. Takes a very special set of circumstances for it to happen. CP3 and Paul George are the only ones that comes to mind and their situations were unusual to say the least. 

KP makes sense for the Pelicans. Only player that's a clear upgrade for the Mavs is Ingram. I just don't find it realistic.

[cow]

It's easy - if KP is healthy every team is in for a Kings ransom.

He is not. So teams will offer no real value.

We can gift away him or keep him as a lottery ticket ourself.

The ship has sailed on KP being healthy and returning equal value.  He also is not as transcendent, dominant or impactful as an AD or Embiid so having him for 60% of your games isn't as easy of a pill to swallow.

As far as who would want him, I think the list will be pretty short.  It needs to be a team ready for a championship push and not risk averse.  I don't really see the desire for an up-and-coming team to trade for him which is why the Charlotte idea doesn't make a lot of sense as they'd be much better with organic growth at this stage of their team's development.  Maybe you look at bottom feeding teams but none of those team names jump out to me as being a fit either.  Maybe you could sucker the new Rockets ownership...

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Holmes to seems like he would bring more defensively but also be a better version of Powell on offense.

 Spot on.