2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[Scott41theMavs]

I think StepBack's point may have been that me suggesting Powell, Terry for Collins is pure fantasy...which I can't really argue with.  The only potential there is if you get Collins to agree and you have the cap space....AND ATL doesn't want to match....then maybe they are open to getting at least something for him.

Trading KP definitely positions you to be able to sign Holmes and still have a big stick to swing at any other FAs.

My take is that it appears that Collins is off the table. Atlanta will max him if need be.

[dynamicalVoid]

It's interesting that to some, the proposed deal, with Miles or PJ being involved, is "selling low" on Porzingis. I think that one of those two guys, with Rozier, Graham, and 23, would be a nice haul for the Mavs, and probably better than what we sent out for him (even given that THJ was a plus for us overall, until lately). 

I wouldn't deal with Charlotte for KP without one of those two guys being included. Rozier is a good player, but overpaid. I would consider it if we got 23 and 25, and would pull the trigger for sure if we got 3 picks. Although that's a dicey deal given the Mavs' usage of picks other than Luka and Brunson.

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I think Melo could be top 10 in the league someday. Luka is, or at least very close to, top 5 today.

I agree that one of those guys should be included if I am Dallas.

I am genuinely curious as to who is considered the better player between PJ and Miles? 

I am only suggesting Charlotte wouldnt do the deal for Bridges based on chemistry and cheap contract.  

I know little about PJ and his potential.  Is he considered better than Bridges?  Is he considered to have a higher ceiling?  Would moving PJ instead of Bridges be considered a bad move around the league?  I really dont know.

I know PJ and Miles have similar stats this year.   Similar size but labeled different positions.

I guess I am not educated on why you should keep PJ and move Bridges when the chemistry between Melo and Bridges seems strong?  Is PJ a better shooter?  Is his defense way better?  Better team fit long term(at 4M it seems like Bridges wouldnt be a fit problem or money problem?

Maybe I am over valuing Bridges/Melo connection.

[Scott41theMavs]

I agree that one of those guys should be included if I am Dallas.

I am genuinely curious as to who is considered the better player between PJ and Miles? 

I am only suggesting Charlotte wouldnt do the deal for Bridges based on chemistry and cheap contract.  

I know little about PJ and his potential.  Is he considered better than Bridges?  Is he considered to have a higher ceiling?  Would moving PJ instead of Bridges be considered a bad move around the league?  I really dont know.

I know PJ and Miles have similar stats this year.   Similar size but labeled different positions.

I guess I am not educated on why you should keep PJ and move Bridges when the chemistry between Melo and Bridges seems strong?  Is PJ a better shooter?  Is his defense way better?  Better team fit long term(at 4M it seems like Bridges wouldnt be a fit problem or money problem?

Maybe I am over valuing Bridges/Melo connection.

Looks to me (from the controversial, but still largely useful, DRPM) that Washington is quite a bit better defender. I might prefer him to Bridges if I'm the Mavs.

[Branduil]

The reasoning for Charlotte in this proposed deal is that they probably can't afford to keep all of their guards. Giving up Rozier before he requires a big payday makes sense since they have 3 young, talented guards already who will also need to be paid soon. This is what they did to get Rozier in the first place, in the Kemba trade, which looks quite savvy now.

With Bridges, too, they have some redundancy at the forward spots, with Hayward and Washington also there. At center, OTOH, they have no real talent whatsoever. This trade would allow them to add a quality center as a starter, while only costing them about $10 million in salary, leaving them with still more room to sign a quality backup C (a necessity with KP obviously).

[dynamicalVoid]

The reasoning for Charlotte in this proposed deal is that they probably can't afford to keep all of their guards. Giving up Rozier before he requires a big payday makes sense since they have 3 young, talented guards already who will also need to be paid soon. This is what they did to get Rozier in the first place, in the Kemba trade, which looks quite savvy now.

With Bridges, too, they have some redundancy at the forward spots, with Hayward and Washington also there. At center, OTOH, they have no real talent whatsoever. This trade would allow them to add a quality center as a starter, while only costing them about $10 million in salary, leaving them with still more room to sign a quality backup C (a necessity with KP obviously).

I think Im over-valuing Bridges to the Charlotte Hornets a little bit.

Maybe Charlotte would be happy to include Bridges.

[Branduil]

I think Im over-valuing Bridges to the Charlotte Hornets a little bit.

Maybe Charlotte would be happy to include Bridges.

I mean I don't think they'd be "happy" but you have to give up something to get something and Rozier/Bridges are two valuable pieces they have which they can also afford to lose because they have other good players at those positions.

[Kammrath]

My take is that it appears that Collins is off the table. Atlanta will max him if need be.

They sure do not feature him like they are going to do that. 

In the last 20 games he is 6th on the team in minutes, playing barely over 27 mins a game and is 5th in shots (but almost 7th!), barely getting 10 a game. 

Their actions speak pretty loudly about his place on the totem pole so to speak. I would assume they have the intention of signing and trading him this summer. I will be shocked if they don't frankly.

NOTE: Recently Galinari is getting featured over him as well. Like tonight for example.

[Scott41theMavs]

They sure do not feature him like they are going to do that. 

In the last 20 games he is 6th on the team in minutes, playing barely over 27 mins a game and is 5th in shots (but almost 7th!), barely getting 10 a game. 

Their actions speak pretty loudly about his place on the totem pole so to speak. I would assume they have the intention of signing and trading him this summer. I will be shocked if they don't frankly.

NOTE: Recently Galinari is getting featured over him as well. Like tonight for example.

https://media.giphy.com/media/OocLVILtd7ybm/giphy.gif

Happy to be wrong.

So, if it's between him and Holmes, which do you target?

[Branduil]

https://media.giphy.com/media/OocLVILtd7ybm/giphy.gif

Happy to be wrong.

So, if it's between him and Holmes, which do you target?

[Kammrath]

So, if it's between him and Holmes, which do you target?

BOTH.



I would trade KP to ATL for JC if at all possible and then target RH.

A JC/RH frontcourt is switchable on D while still having enough girth to handle most of the frontcourts in the league. It also gives Luka TWO great pick and roll partners, which would be crazy deadly.



BUT if the Mavs decide to run it back with KP....

....then I think I target JC first (due to age) over RH, but would want to see their respective price differences first.

[StepBackJay]

They sure do not feature him like they are going to do that. 

In the last 20 games he is 6th on the team in minutes, playing barely over 27 mins a game and is 5th in shots (but almost 7th!), barely getting 10 a game. 

Their actions speak pretty loudly about his place on the totem pole so to speak. I would assume they have the intention of signing and trading him this summer. I will be shocked if they don't frankly.

NOTE: Recently Galinari is getting featured over him as well. Like tonight for example.

Wow that's nuts. Well that puts things in a new perspective bc I do believe Collins is very high (highest?) on the Mavs list of targets.

[Kammrath]

Wow that's nuts.

Tonight 4 guys played over 30 mins for ATL.....and JC played 18 mins.

You tell me how you think he feels about that......

[StepBackJay]

https://media.giphy.com/media/OocLVILtd7ybm/giphy.gif

Happy to be wrong.

So, if it's between him and Holmes, which do you target?

I think they'd want Collins to pair with KP. Holmes could also be paired with KP. Or either one of those guys could be his replacement. It's just hard to tell.

Back at the TDL I think they liked the idea of Collins paired next to KP.

[dynamicalVoid]

You werent asking me...

But I say Holmes.  

Can you explain to me why Collins is worth more than Holmes?  Is it because he can stretch the floor?

Is that ability worth 12M more per year than Holmes?


Collins never jumps off screen when I watch him.  Holmes does few times Ive watched him.  That doesnt mean squat though.

If Holmes is elite at rim rolling and defending 1-5(seems quick enough and big enough to defend all positions if needed) and has no problem defending the p-n-r/switching....is Collins ability equal to that plus can shoot the three?  

Collins scares me at 25+M unless the team feels confident offensively he would be a game changer with rolling and 3 shooting.   The jury seems to be out on his defense too.

Holmes at 15M(I question if this is what he will go for) with elite mobility(switching on D and rolling on offense) seems like a better deal.

EDIT:  Actually...a floor stretcher is more important than a marginally better defender.  Collins has the green light

[Branduil]

1. Right now the Mavs can have about $34 million in cap space next year if they let go of JRich, up to $38 million if they decline WCS' option.

2. If they make the proposed KP-for-Rozier+Bridges trade, that number goes up by $8 million.

3. Mavs could then do something like Maxi+S&T of THJ somewhere for assets to Atlanta for Collins.

4. They could still have over $20 mil left for Holmes and other pieces.

Luka / Brunson
Rozier / Burke
DFS / Green
Collins / Bridges
Holmes / Powell

[StepBackJay]

Tonight 4 guys played over 30 mins for ATL.....and JC played 18 mins.

You tell me how you think he feels about that......

It tells me to put JC back at the top of RFA targets and targets in general for the Mavs. Mavs will pay a big contract but what would they be willing to give up in terms of assets? Has there been an RFA S&T that's yielded some big asset for the team losing the player. Brogdon was for a late first and 2 2nds. I think Rozier ended up being in a S&T for Walker but that was after Walker had already agreed to go to the Celtics so Rozier was going to be gone anyway.

I don't think it would take a Brunson-level asset. I imagine the Mavs could get him for a one of our young prospects. Powell is also an option if Hawks would value him as a poor man's Collins that fits their system better.

If Mavs did do Collins they are likely trading him into space and would still need to figure out starting SG. Dinwiddie is perhaps one of the cheaper options.

Main Rotation:

Luka/Brunson
Dinwiddie/Burke
DFS/rMLE?
Collins/Powell
KP/Maxi

This roster would be pretty top heavy.

[StepBackJay]

1. Right now the Mavs can have about $34 million in cap space next year if they let go of JRich, up to $38 million if they decline WCS' option.

2. If they make the proposed KP-for-Rozier+Bridges trade, that number goes up by $8 million.

3. Mavs could then do something like Maxi+S&T of THJ somewhere for assets to Atlanta for Collins.

4. They could still have over $20 mil left for Holmes and other pieces.

Luka / Brunson
Rozier / Burke
DFS / Green
Collins / Bridges
Holmes / Powell

Can you have multiple S&T's in a multi-team trade? Not sure if that is legal or not.

[Branduil]

Can you have multiple S&T's in a multi-team trade? Not sure if that is legal or not.

Why wouldn't you be able to? Never heard of that being a problem as long as the salary matching/cap rules are followed.

[Hypermav]

Tonight 4 guys played over 30 mins for ATL.....and JC played 18 mins.

You tell me how you think he feels about that......

[StepBackJay]

You werent asking me...

But I say Holmes.  

Can you explain to me why Collins is worth more than Holmes?  Is it because he can stretch the floor?

Is that ability worth 12M more per year than Holmes?


Collins never jumps off screen when I watch him.  Holmes does few times Ive watched him.  That doesnt mean squat though.

If Holmes is elite at rim rolling and defending 1-5(seems quick enough and big enough to defend all positions if needed) and has no problem defending the p-n-r/switching....is Collins ability equal to that plus can shoot the three?  

Collins scares me at 25+M unless the team feels confident offensively he would be a game changer with rolling and 3 shooting.   The jury seems to be out on his defense too.

Holmes at 15M(I question if this is what he will go for) with elite mobility(switching on D and rolling on offense) seems like a better deal.

EDIT:  Actually...a floor stretcher is more important than a marginally better defender.  Collins has the green light

I like either except as you say Collins is more expensive, could cost an asset and thus seems like a riskier target. Holmes could get be had more easily and is less risky. We know the Mavs like both. Collins seems like Powell with more versatility, naming outside shooting which would definitely put pressure on the defense.

With Holmes you would have a more well-rounded player than Powell but potentially also have money for a legit starting caliber guard.