2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[dirkfansince1998]

^ yep

finding a KP trade is going to be challenging

Wait for the offseason and let him regain some value...that didn´t work out.

[SleepingHero]

Wait for the offseason and let him regain some value...that didn´t work out.

He's averaging nearly 21/9 on 47/36/85. 

I can name 6 teams right now that'd kill to have KP on their team. GSW/POR/NOP/PHX/CHA/BOS are just a few. All those teams are dying for consistent 3pt shooting and a stretch 4/5. 

And that's before bringing in the out of nowhere fits like WAS/ATL/SAS/IND/TOR

That's 11 teams right there, 6 of them that make a lot of sense too (GSW/POR/BOS/WAS/ATL/NOP).

However, I will end with what I always end with any KP trade discussion; it doesn't matter/waste of energy because the Mavs are not going to trade KP.

[dirkfansince1998]

He's averaging nearly 21/9 on 47/36/85. 

I can name 6 teams right now that'd kill to have KP on their team. GSW/POR/NOP/PHX/CHA/BOS are just a few. All those teams are dying for consistent 3pt shooting and a stretch 4/5. 

And that's before bringing in the out of nowhere fits like WAS/ATL/SAS/IND/TOR

That's 11 teams right there, 6 of them that make a lot of sense too (GSW/POR/BOS/WAS/ATL/NOP).

However, I will end with what I always end with any KP trade discussion; it doesn't matter/waste of energy because the Mavs are not going to trade KP.

I think the league is past the point where counting stats determine a players trade value. We talked about his defensive short comings. Mentioned the questionable fit on offense and it´s not like those problems are some kind of secret otherwise other teams wouldn´t target him in the pick and roll or switch smaller defenders onto him.

But all of that doesn´t even matter. KP missed the first nine games of the season. Since his return he has missed 13/53. A max player that cannot stay healthy is not a good trade asset.

I agree that the Mavs probably won´t trade KP. There simply is no market and they don´t want to gift him away.

[Mavs2021]

I think the league is past the point where counting stats determine a players trade value. We talked about his defensive short comings. Mentioned the questionable fit on offense and it´s not like those problems are some kind of secret otherwise other teams wouldn´t target him in the pick and roll or switch smaller defenders onto him.

But all of that doesn´t even matter. KP missed the first nine games of the season. Since his return he has missed 13/53. A max player that cannot stay healthy is not a good trade asset.

I agree that the Mavs probably won´t trade KP. There simply is no market and they don´t want to gift him away.

Bingo. They goofed again. As usual. Not even the trade that is the worst part. It´s the extension. Typical lazy Mavs. Sixers put millions of injury protection layers into the Embiid extension. Probably took three weeks to draw it up. Ours took three minutes: Here take my moNey.

Not only give Porzingis the max, but with a 5th year player option. Holyshit. Go figure whether he´ll exercise it. At the minimum they should have said: You get the five year max, BUT the 5th year will be a team option. You don´t like it. Well here is the open market. Bring it.

[Mavs2021]

^ yep

finding a KP trade is going to be challenging

I actually think the

Mavs: Lavine + Holmes 
Bulls: Hield + Richardson + Kleber + three 1st round Mavs picks
Kings: Porzingis + Green

is the best chance we have.

It´s fair trade value for the Kings: Hield for Porzingis + Green.

Kings:

Fox
Haliburton
Barnes
Bagley
Porzingis

At the same time the Bulls get a very good SG to replace Lavine, two veterans with some trade value (especially Kleber) and a crapload of draft compensation.

Bulls:

White
Hield
Williams
Kleber
Vucevic

Luka, Duffy and the MBT need to work on Lavine 24/7. Kid has to be sick of playing for losing franchises. If Lavine puts in a Mavs trade request, we can push this through: you want Hield, Kleber and three first round picks right now or lose him for nothing next summer.

Mavs:

Luka
Lavine
DFS
Collins
Holmes (or Theis)

maybe there is another version of this with Rozier going to the Bulls, Porzingis to the Hornets.

It all depends on Lavine pulling an Harden and for once we have some inside track with Duffy as the agent.

[Branduil]

The key to trading KP is finding a team where he could be a great X-factor for them, not one of the main stars. That's why GS keeps getting brought up as a target- if Klay comes back healthy, KP could help them a lot, but it won't immediately kill their team if he misses some games. They're already way over the cap so his salary won't hurt them, and they have a number of assets which won't mature fast enough to help them win with their current core.

[KillerLeft]

He's averaging nearly 21/9 on 47/36/85. 

I can name 6 teams right now that'd kill to have KP on their team. GSW/POR/NOP/PHX/CHA/BOS are just a few. All those teams are dying for consistent 3pt shooting and a stretch 4/5. 

And that's before bringing in the out of nowhere fits like WAS/ATL/SAS/IND/TOR

That's 11 teams right there, 6 of them that make a lot of sense too (GSW/POR/BOS/WAS/ATL/NOP).

However, I will end with what I always end with any KP trade discussion; it doesn't matter/waste of energy because the Mavs are not going to trade KP.

Is KP a consistent three point shooter? I had no idea.

I also had no idea that so many teams wanted to be much worse, defensively, or that they wanted to pay someone so handsomely to reach that goal. 

I think you’re in a fair amount of denial about this, personally.

[RedFlag41]

In a KP to GSW trade scenario, what would be the most realistic incoming package that we can expect from the GSW?

[BolsDamols]

I can name 6 teams right now that'd kill to have KP on their team. GSW/POR/NOP/PHX/CHA/BOS are just a few. All those teams are dying for consistent 3pt shooting and a stretch 4/5. 

I think if this were true, KP would have been traded already

[Mapka]

The key to trading KP is finding a team where he could be a great X-factor for them, not one of the main stars. That's why GS keeps getting brought up as a target- if Klay comes back healthy, KP could help them a lot, but it won't immediately kill their team if he misses some games. They're already way over the cap so his salary won't hurt them, and they have a number of assets which won't mature fast enough to help them win with their current core.

That's the point.

But guess who also fits this bill, if we get a "star"-playmaker in this FA.

We have to think like someone, that wants to win - not like we would want to rebuild. And there is nothing out there, that would help us as much as a KP being healthy come playoff time.

[omahen]

That's the point.

But guess who also fits this bill, if we get a "star"-playmaker in this FA.

We have to think like someone, that wants to win - not like we would want to rebuild. And there is nothing out there, that would help us as much as a KP being healthy come playoff time.

Thank god for the voice of reason here.

I can see a couple of scenarios where trading KP improves Mavs. Moving him for cents on the dollar is not it.

[dirkfansince1998]

That's the point.

But guess who also fits this bill, if we get a "star"-playmaker in this FA.

We have to think like someone, that wants to win - not like we would want to rebuild. And there is nothing out there, that would help us as much as a KP being healthy come playoff time.

Have we seen this healthy version of KP this season or is this some kind of pipe dream? KP missed more than 1/3 of all games this season and ranks 3rd last in net rating among rotation players. Only Richardson and THJ are worse. Every single big on the roster except for KP is a net positive.

[Mapka]

Have we seen this healthy version of KP this season or is this some kind of pipe dream? KP missed more than 1/3 of all games this season and ranks 3rd last in net rating among rotation players. Only Richardson and THJ are worse. Every single big on the roster except for KP is a net positive.

We didn't see it constantly. But there were quarters he looked like the player we need.

I also think all stats for this year are as useful as a win 3.1 manual for a win10 - user. You mind find something in there, but you will be confused with the most part of it.

[dirkfansince1998]

We didn't see it constantly. But there were quarters he looked like the player we need.

I also think all stats for this year are as useful as a win 3.1 manual for a win10 - user. You mind find something in there, but you will be confused with the most part of it.

I could make the same case for THJ. Last games version of THJ might be better than the best version of KP. A lot of wishful thinking.

[Mapka]

I could make the same case for THJ. Last games version of THJ might be better than the best version of KP. A lot of wishful thinking.

Just no. KPs best game were hitting everything from everywere, including buzzerbeaters from the Logo in a splitsecond, while killing it on defence as the main cog.

And I have made the same case for THJ just now in the other thread. If we catch lightning in the bottle with both of them and have "normal" Luka they would go at least toe to toe with anyone.

I know both of them are not constant, but no shooter is.
And constant average is perfect with a 5th starter. I want my 2nd starter and my 6th man having a higher ceiling.

[dirkfansince1998]

Just no. KPs best game were hitting everything from everywere, including buzzerbeaters from the Logo in a splitsecond, while killing it on defence as the main cog.

And I have made the same case for THJ just now in the other thread. If we catch lightning in the bottle with both of them and have "normal" Luka they would go at least toe to toe with anyone.

So you are judging the ability of a player based on a one quarter/game/possession sample size? If that´s the case Luka has the GOAT supporting cast. Just needs to get lucky and hope that all players around him play the best basketball of their career for the rest of the season. Odds are in the 1:1000000000000000000000000000000000000000 range.

[Mapka]

So you are ranking the ability of a player based on a one quarter/game/possession sample size? If that´s the case Luka has the GOAT supporting cast. Just needs to get lucky and hope that all players around him play the best basketball of their career for the rest of the season. Odds are in the 1:1000000000000000000000000000000000000000 range.

That's a better chance than nearly all the trade KP and let THJ go for THT and Holmes ideas would provide.

In the end I think the chances KP and THJ have 4 good games out of 14 (both in a 7-Games-series) are quite good.

By the way you are using the same sample sizes against them

[dirkfansince1998]

That's a better chance than nearly all the trade KP and let THJ go for THT and Holmes ideas would provide.

In the end I think the chances KP and THJ have 4 good games out of 14 (both in a 7-Games-series) are quite good.

By the way you are using the same sample sizes against them

No. I am using a 40 games sample size for KP. And a 61 games sample size for THJ. Chances are that both will have more bad/mediocre games than good games.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

That's the point.

But guess who also fits this bill, if we get a "star"-playmaker in this FA.

We have to think like someone, that wants to win - not like we would want to rebuild. And there is nothing out there, that would help us as much as a KP being healthy come playoff time.

If I felt that there was a player available via free agency or trade this offseason (without using KP) that would fit that star mold and give us the convenience of just using KP as an X factor then I would agree but I don't see that name available.

I would almost argue the opposite.  Holding onto to KP makes us a team that is more focused on trying to force a square peg into a round hole and please someone's ego instead of focusing on winning.  Trading KP does not signal a rebuild.  We need to retool around Luka and working to find better skill sets to fit around him I think very much makes us a team that wants to win.

As for the very immediate future, I want the guy to be healthy and ball out in the playoff and contribute to wins like he did last year before going down.  For the long term future next to Luka, we need to build a competent defense and moving KP is probably the only way to do that.

[Mapka]

No. I am using a 40 games sample size for KP. And a 61 games sample size for THJ. Chances are that both will have more bad/mediocre games than good games.

I´d say it´s save, they have more average/good/Great/THEYWOULDBE!M!V!P!IFTHEYALWAYSPLAYLIKETHIS games than bad ones. And that´s not just semantics, they are better than average players in this league. 

If I felt that there was a player available via free agency or trade this offseason (without using KP) that would fit that star mold and give us the convenience of just using KP as an X factor then I would agree but I don't see that name available.

I would almost argue the opposite.  Holding onto to KP makes us a team that is more focused on trying to force a square peg into a round hole and please someone's ego instead of focusing on winning.  Trading KP does not signal a rebuild.  We need to retool around Luka and working to find better skill sets to fit around him I think very much makes us a team that wants to win.

As for the very immediate future, I want the guy to be healthy and ball out in the playoff and contribute to wins like he did last year before going down.  For the long term future next to Luka, we need to build a competent defense and moving KP is probably the only way to do that.

Are you getting this player by trading KP? True question. I don´t see it.

Working around the edges with our square peg to fit it in the end might be worth it. Trading KP now seems like throwing away all pegs and ending with a board (Luka) and a lot of big and small holes and some pieces way to small.

By the way in the NBA: 4th in Offense 15th in Defense >>> 10th in Offense 4th in Defense.

We all now that Defense can supercharge an Offense. But bad Offense kills every Defense.