2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[RedFlag41]

If you are the Dallas Mavericks would you agree to a sign and trade of John Collins for Kristaps Porzingis?

[omahen]

If you are the Dallas Mavericks would you agree to a sign and trade of John Collins for Kristaps Porzingis?

Only if Atlanta adds something. I think KP is better.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Only if Atlanta adds something. I think KP is better.

KP is the better 3 pt shooter, Collins is more athletic.  It's a toss-up to me.

[Thukydides]

If you are the Dallas Mavericks would you agree to a sign and trade of John Collins for Kristaps Porzingis?

I´ve proposed deals around this a few times before the TDL. Then, ATL would have had to add something to match salaries. 

A sign and trade would mean that Collins WANTS to go to Dallas, but ATL still could match. It´s a tough one really. In my eyes Mavs couldn´t really ask for anything else..

[DanSchwartzgan]

 
And if he really is a PG, wouldn't that push Jalen a notch down the Totem pole?

I can understand Lavine and Derozan taking away minutes from JB, because like it or not, JB knows the two are way ahead of him. And of course being taller wings, they can play with Luka and JB on a 3 guard lineup. The same is true with Lonzo to some extent. Ball is a tall PG the same as Luka, but both can play as wings.

Graham will directly be competing with JB.  Pencil him as a JR replacement, but he will eat away from JB's minutes if he is good as people say. So is he a JB replacement eventually?

So, yesterday was Devonte Graham day.  

There are publications (and there were TDL rumors) that think he will be the odd man out between Ball, Rozier and Graham.  I'm not sure why they wouldn't keep all three.  Graham has a $2mm cap hold, so he doesn't keep them from doing other business in free agency.  Compare that to Monk's $13mm cap hold.  If someone is going to go, it is probably Monk or Rozier (via trade).

To your point, is Graham that much better than Brunson?  Better...yes.  But how much?  By some measures, the difference isn't that great.  Is he the best fit in a three guard rotation with Luka and JB?  I'm not sure I want to pay $15mm to find out (and send Brunson packing a year from now in unrestricted free agency).  If Brunson is goint to embrace his role as third guard, I agree that the second guard has to be clearly better than him.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Only if Atlanta adds something. I think KP is better.

Agree.  But, I don't see Atlanta doing this.  How do you play Capela and KP together defensively.  The offer of Maxi at the TDL made much more sense for Atlanta.  If you did such a thing this summer, you could max Collins and still have room for a $14mm guy.  Personally, I'd rather keep KP, get Holmes and have a healthy amount of cash to solve the issue we have at SG.

[Branduil]

My concern with Graham, besides the potential Brunson complications, is that it would feel like the Mavs trying to strike gold on a not-yet-proven guard for the 3rd offseason in a row. I'm somewhat tired of hoping guys like Wright, JRich, etc. will live up to their "potential"... I want someone proven. And if it takes trading KP to get that guy, so be it. The Mavs need a real star next to Luka, not a maybe-he'll-break-out guy.

[michaeltex]

My concern with Graham, besides the potential Brunson complications, is that it would feel like the Mavs trying to strike gold on a not-yet-proven guard for the 3rd offseason in a row. I'm somewhat tired of hoping guys like Wright, JRich, etc. will live up to their "potential"... I want someone proven. And if it takes trading KP to get that guy, so be it. The Mavs need a real star next to Luka, not a maybe-he'll-break-out guy.

Does Luka have enough weight in the organization to express his preferences for a backcourt partner?

[HAguiar95]

Here are my predictions on the RFA market:

Ball = Receives 100M/4y offer from NYK, NOP doesn't match.
Graham = Re-signs with CHA for 60M/4y.
Nunn = Re-signs with MIA for 40M/3y.
Monk = Re-signs with CHA for 30M/3y.
Hart = Receives 40M/3y offer from MEM, NOP matches.
Trent Jr. = Re-signs with TOR for 72M/4y.
Horton-Tucker = Receives 60M/4y offer from OKC, LAL doesn't match.
Robinson = Re-signs with MIA for 72M/4y.
Collins = Receives 120M/4y offer from DAL, ATL matches.
Markkanen = Receives 70M/4y offer from SAS, CHI doesn't match.
Allen = Re-signs with CLE for 90M/4y.

[michaeltex]

Interesting to see how it plays out.

That's $25M for CHA for two guards. Elsewhere on the board there is a comment that keeping both at those prices may not be a viable path forward.

Personally, I hope DAL doesn't get tied up in FA by waiting on ATL to decide whether or not to match Collins. I'd like to have him, but I'm not sure about the price point and the market isn't going to be deep enough in high performers to wait around for a couple days.

[Chicagojk]

I am out on Collins in FA.   I think the Mavs tried to force ATL's hand about a big offer this offseason to see if they could push ATL to move.   I don't see him as a realistic path in FA.    

Collins has played very good against Dallas and he is very talented.  For me though, he doesn't move the needle enough for me.   Especially for a guy looking at max or near max money.   I feel like he is a guy who gets his points/rebounds but at the end of the game it feels like he hasn't really impacted the game.   That is not what I want for max money.   

I am also out on Lonzo Ball.  Ball was my favorite player in that draft a few years ago.   I have been disappointed so far, even though he has played good this year.  He is a guy who doesn't score at the rim and doesn't shoot free throws.   I also expected him to impact games more with his passing, but he pretty much stands around the perimeter.  He does have a great Basketball IQ though.  My fear is what happens if his three point shooting drops?   Then you have an inconsistent shooter who plays smart, but doesn't get easy buckets and a good defender.    I would not pay 25 million for that.   I like the fit in NYK.  And I wonder if Charlotte sniffs around.   Charlotte with the Ball's would be fun.  

But that is just my opinion.

[Mavs2021]

24/10/6
40% 3pt shooting
2nd in DEF WS
12th in DRTG

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

24/10/6
40% 3pt shooting
2nd in DEF WS
12th in DRTG

Who is this referring to?

[mvossman]

My concern with Graham, besides the potential Brunson complications, is that it would feel like the Mavs trying to strike gold on a not-yet-proven guard for the 3rd offseason in a row. I'm somewhat tired of hoping guys like Wright, JRich, etc. will live up to their "potential"... I want someone proven. And if it takes trading KP to get that guy, so be it. The Mavs need a real star next to Luka, not a maybe-he'll-break-out guy.

I share a little PTSD regarding Wright and JRich as well.  Both of those guys have failed here due to an unwillingness, hesitancy, or just bad 3 point shooting, and a tendency to dribble the ball around without doing anything.  These are two issues you will not have with Graham.  He is a high volume three point shooter at a good percentage (upper 30s last two years and over 40 on catch and shoot) and the word on him is he makes good quick decisions and has a very high assist to turnover ration.

At 12-15 mil, we are not looking for a third star.  We are looking for a competent starter that fills needs (and getting someone young is a big bonus).

The overlap with Brunson is a concern.  They are different players in that Graham is more of a 3 point shooter and distributor, while Brunson is more of a three level scorer.  Graham is the better defender (why I want him for the starting lineup) but they are both undersized.  You could probably get away with playing them together for the ~12 minutes Luka is off the court, but the situation would be awkward.

[SleepingHero]

The tricky part is he is restricted, so you might have to overpay a little bit, or send an asset in a trade (like the delon wright trade).  We might have to go up to 15, but I think I would still pull that trigger.

I'm a little burnt out sending assets for minor pieces that don't clearly improve the team. Graham to me isn't a clear cut upgrade. He can shoot the 3, but he also shoots 38% from the field for his career overall. 

Would much rather give Richaun Holmes 15 mil a year if we're going to overpay a role player since the clear role he'd have here would play exactly to his strengths.

[Jason Terry]

I think we could fit both Graham and Holmes in our cap space 

Still would rather the number 1 option this summer to be Conley/Lowry. Just skeptical that’s even an option

[michaeltex]

I like the idea of Holmes. He certainly had a good tryout the other night. If he's more of an eraser at the rim, then he's a definite target. But somebody in the MBT needs to decide he's going to be a primary target or somebody else (CHA?) will steal him.

[omahen]

How about this ground shaking proposal. Indiana needs to change something, but I am not really convinced by any of their centers. I am even less convinced by KP fit with either of their centers, but let's leave this minor issue asside

Ind: KP, Brunson
Cha: Turner or Sabonis
Dallas: Brogdon, PJ Washington (then you sign Holmes as your main C in free agency and you still have room for a good guard/wing). 

Or alternatively:

Cha: KP
Dal: PJ, Rozier, draft compensation

Charlotte gets their center they don't have. Dallas gets a solid guard, good young PF and additional 10 mil of cap space. Again enough for Holmes and top guard/wing. 

Luka, Brunson
Rozier, Green
DeRozan, DFS
PJ, Maxi
Holmes, Powell

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Cha: KP
Dal: PJ, Rozier, draft compensation

Charlotte gets their center they don't have. Dallas gets a solid guard, good young PF and additional 10 mil of cap space. Again enough for Holmes and top guard/wing. 

Luka, Brunson
Rozier, Green
DeRozan, DFS
PJ, Maxi
Holmes, Powell

I like this one a lot.  I don't actually think DeRozan has any interest in coming here or that our FO has any interest in a nonshooting wing but I would say that with the extra space you could also opt in to WCS and go after a cheaper wing behind DFS like Otto Porter.  Love the idea of a more athletic wing-ier sort of 4 man in front of Maxi though.  Someone who can guard all the wings that DFS can't because there are a few that push him around.  
(Side note, I would argue that they have an even better name in Charlotte that fits that mold in Miles Bridges but both those players fit a profile that can't really be found on our roster today.)

It's so hard to find a franchise that actually has a need for a player like KP but Charlotte has a glaring need in the middle.

[Mavs2021]

Who is this referring to?

Mavs reject Julius Randle, who probably has a legit top 5 MVP case given his offensive/defensive numbers, the team turnaround and the rest of that roster. Who is the 3rd best player on the Knicks (full season played)? Reggie Bullock? Elfried Payton? Now it´s Derrick Rose.

Cuban was so proud, when he signed the big doofus DAJ to a one year $24M deal, when he could have had Randle for the same money for two years.