2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[StepBackJay]

Am I the only one just a little bit antsy signing Lonzo at a 20mm annual offer sheet for 4 years?

The dude has been balling out and has carved himself a nice niche as a spot up shooter/defender. But I feel Lonzo is also the type of guy to just stop giving a crap as soon as he gets a payday. 

Just a passing thought I had.

He definitely carries risk bc if his shooting falls back to earth then he loses a lot of value. While his passing and defense are good, his efficiency hasn't been great. Lonzo doesn't get to the line at all and when he gets there he has a terrible career average FT%. I do like his fit alongside Luka but I would certainly be nervous handing him 80 mil.

[cow]

Am I the only one just a little bit antsy signing Lonzo at a 20mm annual offer sheet for 4 years?

The dude has been balling out and has carved himself a nice niche as a spot up shooter/defender. But I feel Lonzo is also the type of guy to just stop giving a crap as soon as he gets a payday. 

Just a passing thought I had.

Join #TeamTHT.  Lonzo is the better player today but his upside is pretty limited.

[DanSchwartzgan]

So Dan I can imagine why Chicago would do this altho Young is an important rotation player for them. I just don't think Young at 15 mil for J Rich is a great move for the Mavs. Mavs could do much better than that and I don't picture them wanting to spend even more big money in their frontcourt rotation.

Right now Mavs have 50 mil committed to KP, Maxi and Powell next season. That's around 45% of the salary cap. Unless you can unload Powell somewhere I don't think Mavs want to up that number to 65 mil or 58% of the cap. And we would be losing a guard/wing defender in the process.

Unless Mavs can land a budding star player like Collins, I don't think they are going to spend much money on the front-court unless and until Powell's money is dumped. Also with Powell playing better there is less urgency to do much. They might be able to bring back Melli on a vet min and feel okay about their big rotation.

In terms of agent management with J Rich I think he could just opt-in and there's no big issue really. It kicks the can down the road. Mavs could keep him or trade him. And opt-in and extend is interesting. I think J Rich is a flawed but useful player. If you move him to the bench and keep him on a value contract (because you couldn't find something better) that is not the worst thing in the world.

Circling back to the Young thing I haven't done the math but if they need to free up cap space wouldn't they just not guaranteed his contract? They could then negotiate a new contract or find a cheaper player.

Chicago won't have a way to bring back Young if they go with the non-guarantee.  He will get more than the Room MLE from all sorts of teams.  He can't be an "important rotation player" and also be someone they can just dump.  BTW, they have too many bigs now.  Vuc/Williams backed by Theis/Aminu and a cheap fifth big is just fine.  The risk they have is being able to keep Theis at the Room MLE.  I think he's worth more, but his market may be held down by supply at the position.

I think we get way too caught up on how much we are paying this or that.  There is a chance we are paying our SF rotation $7 million next season.  Our superstar and his backup are making a fraction of their worth.  Powell will take care of himself soon enough.  He's actually pretty good at his role if they could have just negotiated an Achilles discount clause in his deal.  But they didn't.  Some day we will have too much invested in our back court and Powell will be gone.  The question for today is what do we need and the answer is better than Melli.  If Melli were the answer, why are any of us pining for Collins?

JRich won't opt in just to stay here.  It will be opt out (even if he has to take a MLE deal) or opt-in and extend here or elsewhere.  I sometimes feel I'm a little unfair to JRich.  He got traded, didn't get a training camp with his new team and then got Covid.  How is he supposed to look after all of that?  The point I wanted to make in this scenario is the opt-in has to be done pre-moratorium and Dallas has tried getting something out of situations like this in the past.  Unless they are going for max-room, trading him after an opt-in is good asset management.  To the right team at the right price, he has value.  But, JRich won't play along unless he knows the where and the how much in advance.

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Classic Knicks targets seem like:
- Schroder big deal
- Drummond on a short deal
- Dipo maybe on a short deal?
- At least one RFA overpay to try to steal someone away (ie Lonzo)

I just threw up in my mouth a little.  And people think Lonzo would pick that cesspool over Dallas?

[StepBackJay]

Dan I think bottom line is Mavs aren't going to trade for Young at 15 mil, it doesn't make any sense. I would rather keep J Rich (altho I like Young as a player).

[Mavs2021]

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I just threw up in my mouth a little.  And people think Lonzo would pick that cesspool over Dallas?

The Knicks are 29-27, a young team and have a new management. You missed all that?

Who cares about Lonzo. He´s not making us a real contender anyway. The Bulls struggles continue. Trade made them worse. They might not even make the play-in. WCJ revenge game.

[DanSchwartzgan]

The Knicks are 29-27, a young team and have a new management. You missed all that?

Who cares about Lonzo. He´s not making us a real contender anyway. The Bulls struggles continue. Trade made them worse. They might not even make the play-in. WCJ revenge game.

Schroder/Drummond/Dipo would be such a Knicks summer and would set them back another decade.  New regime hit on Quickley and the Rose deal looks good (when he plays).  Maybe they've changed.  But the biggest difference is someone finally figured out what to do with Randle.  This is his first ever positive On-Court season.  His assists have nearly doubled without an ensuing rise in TO's and his shot mix has changed pretty dramatically.  His at the rim shots are cut in half and he's taking and making more threes (and creating for himself more than he has in the past).

The gulf between JRich and Lonzo his huge.  Not sure what "not making us a contender" means.  Every incremental improvement we make moves us closer.  Lonzo for JRich would be substantial.

Love the WCJ revenge game.  Chicago may regret that one in the next few years.  It also appears they are going to flush Markkanen.  That's two pretty good lottery picks that they either missed on or hit, but didn't know it while they had them.

[Thukydides]

It´s never been more apparent than in the last few games: We need a playmaking wing so badly. But I don´t know, who that could be. Also I don´t see us leaving THJ´s huge caphold on the book. Hard to see it for J-Rich either. But who can we get?

[Branduil]

Well, there were trade deadline rumors about Brogdon being available. And I've made no secret how much I think the Mavs screwed up by not going after him in the first place. He'd give us everything JRich does while being a faaaaaaaaaaaar better shooter and playmaker.

[Kammrath]

The gulf between JRich and Lonzo his huge.  Not sure what "not making us a contender" means.  Every incremental improvement we make moves us closer.  Lonzo for JRich would be substantial.

Yeah Lonzo would be a MASSIVE improvement to the backcourt. 

Again, I personally want JC/RH first....but LB is probably next on my wish list.

[Scott41theMavs]

Well, there were trade deadline rumors about Brogdon being available. And I've made no secret how much I think the Mavs screwed up by not going after him in the first place. He'd give us everything JRich does while being a faaaaaaaaaaaar better shooter and playmaker.

IGT and I have said it several times - KP and change for Brogdon and Turner. If we have to give up Brunson as well, a first from them as well. The one trade I can think where I would "throw in" Brunson - for good-sized, well-defending playmaker Brogdon. 

You aren't getting Brogdon for anywhere near much less. That trade improves the Mavs (IMHO) while allowing us to use our other assets and cap room to shore up the rest of the lineup. Pretty sure you'd have cap room to go after Collins as well.

Brogdon
Luka
DFS
Collins
Turner

Looks pretty stout to me.

[ItsGoTime]

Basically if we're moving off of KP, I want Turner as his replacement. I think there is more value in KP than there is Turner, depending on his playoffs and health in the offseason, that IMO COULD be Brogdon or Collins. If we can get 2 of those 3 players when moving KP, our team becomes much easier to build around, as well as it has a lot more money to spend. 

I pretty firmly believe, right now, that this team needs to be Luka and his band of merry men. Some of those merry men can be Little John's like Brogdon or Collins, but any bigger name than that is gonna make it a bit messy. Maybe when Luka matures a bit, that philosophy can change, but I think it's the reality of where we are right now.

[SleepingHero]

Again, I personally want JC/RH first....but LB is probably next on my wish list.

I'm sorry but I have no idea who JC/RH is. LB has to be Ball cause we're talking about him so I got that.

Jesus Christ? RobinHood? 

John Collins? Rondae Hollins? We're abbreviating too many players nowadays I can't keep up.

[BasketballJones41]

I'm sorry but I have no idea who JC/RH is. LB has to be Ball cause we're talking about him so I got that.

Jesus Christ? RobinHood? 

John Collins? Rondae Hollins? We're abbreviating too many players nowadays I can't keep up.

RH is Richaun Holmes I think and JC is John Collins. Pretty sure anyway.

[Mavs2021]

You need to find guys like Holmes, when they are cheap and underutilized. I wanted him in his 2nd year in Philly. Not sure how much you like him for $12-15M. Zubac was another guy like that.

My man Goga is next. Finally getting some minutes now that Turner been out.

Last 10 games 6.7 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 1.4 BPG, 1.9 APG in 14 MPG.

Per 36 that translates to 17.2 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 3.6 BPG, 4.9 APG. 

Exactly the kind of back-up big that can bang with guys like Zubac, Jokic or Valanciunas that murder us all the time.

[SleepingHero]

You need to find guys like Holmes, when they are cheap and underutilized. I wanted him in his 2nd year in Philly. Not sure how much you like him for $12-15M. Zubac was another guy like that.

My man Goga is next. Finally getting some minutes now that Turner been out.

Last 10 games 6.7 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 1.4 BPG, 1.9 APG in 14 MPG.

Per 36 that translates to 17.2 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 3.6 BPG, 4.9 APG. 

Exactly the kind of back-up big that can bang with guys like Zubac, Jokic or Valanciunas that murder us all the time.

I actually love Goga as a target for the BAE. The only thing is the Mavs are desperate for playmaking more than a backup big (though it is a priority).

Maxi/Powell/KP aren't going anywhere, and I find it hard to think the Mavs let Boban go due to his relationship with Luka and how good of a locker room guy he is. So thats 4 bigs right there. Essentially we're trying to replace WCS. Is Holmes worth 8-10 mil more than WCS? I mean he's great and is Powell 2.0, but that's a significant investment into a lower priority need. 

I think the Mavs are going to go after a guard first and lose out on Holmes because they waited too long. Goga is a nice plan B.

[SleepingHero]

Well, there were trade deadline rumors about Brogdon being available. And I've made no secret how much I think the Mavs screwed up by not going after him in the first place. He'd give us everything JRich does while being a faaaaaaaaaaaar better shooter and playmaker.

Would you trade Brunson for Brogdon? 

Brunson in terms of production is damn near close on a per 36 level to him while being 4 years younger. 

If there was a way to get Brogdon while keeping Brunson/Kleber/DFS then the Mavs are onto something. I just don't think IND will bite.

[dynamicalVoid]

Would you trade Brunson for Brogdon? 

Brunson in terms of production is damn near close on a per 36 level to him while being 4 years younger. 

If there was a way to get Brogdon while keeping Brunson/Kleber/DFS then the Mavs are onto something. I just don't think IND will bite.

 You werent asking me...but I would.

Brunson has some major skills...he can get to the basket which I like a lot,  decent shot and good handle...seems to rebound decent too.

But...Brogdon is 6'5 with a good handle himself and decent shot.  I also think he would learn a lot from watching Luka in practice.

Maybe Brunson is better offensively...but seems like Brogdon would be less liability of defense.   Maybe Brogdon sucks on defense...I dont know. Maybe Brunson's defense stats arent bad...I dont know.

[Kammrath]

this team needs to be Luka and his band of merry men

YES. VERY MUCH.

[Scott41theMavs]

Would you trade Brunson for Brogdon? 

Brunson in terms of production is damn near close on a per 36 level to him while being 4 years younger. 

If there was a way to get Brogdon while keeping Brunson/Kleber/DFS then the Mavs are onto something. I just don't think IND will bite.

Dude. See above.

[SleepingHero]

Dude. See above.

I have an automatic filter for any KP trades sorry.